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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5878069 - 07/19/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

No shit, I love how people equate support for your countries military, to small children writing "to hezbola with love" on artillery shells. Truly delusional.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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Offlinemikeownow
Humungus fungus

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 2,856
Loc: WA,USA
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5878086 - 07/19/06 02:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RosettaStoned said:
Quote:

I'm guessing every conflict since the the birth of history




So you saying americans had children sign ww2 bombs?




yeap


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: mikeownow]
    #5878122 - 07/19/06 02:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mikeownow said:
Quote:

RosettaStoned said:
Quote:

I'm guessing every conflict since the the birth of history




So you saying americans had children sign ww2 bombs?






yeap




Were these bombs also being dropped on a nation who had done nothing wrong, was 0% threat, was poor, etc. etc. etc.

Comparing this war to WWII is useless.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5878561 - 07/19/06 05:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Came across this blog....what am I missing here?




What you are missing here (through no fault of your own) is the backstory leading up to that photo. It can be found here --

http://adloyada.typepad.com/adloyada/2006/07/how_to_demonize.html



Phred


--------------------

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OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: mikeownow]
    #5878575 - 07/19/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mikeownow said:
Quote:

RosettaStoned said:
Quote:

I'm guessing every conflict since the the birth of history




So you saying americans had children sign ww2 bombs?




yeap




I doubt that very much.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Offlinemikeownow
Humungus fungus

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 2,856
Loc: WA,USA
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: Basilides]
    #5878770 - 07/19/06 06:59 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I was not being serious.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Invisiblerod
Ψ
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 3,727
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: Basilides]
    #5878790 - 07/19/06 07:05 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

mikeownow said:
Quote:

RosettaStoned said:
Quote:

I'm guessing every conflict since the the birth of history




So you saying americans had children sign ww2 bombs?





yeap




I doubt that very much.




No, but the soldiers, did sign the bombs, for the Japs, and Germans,
lay down with dogs, you,ll probably wake up with fleas.  :cool:

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OfflineRosettaStoned
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5879265 - 07/19/06 09:28 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I am in no way trying to compare the wars, I'm just curious if this has ever been done in modern war history. As I already posted, I'm not talking about adults writing things on bombs, just children.

To my knowledge this is something new; having children write on bombs. And I was wondering if anyone else could cite another case of this happening.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 11 years, 3 days
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5879343 - 07/19/06 09:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

As part of a radio show in miami, people could write on bombs they were dropping on Afganistan(maybe it was iraq) when the war started. Kids were doing it too.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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OfflineRosettaStoned
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: d33p]
    #5879351 - 07/19/06 09:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Ahhh so it started in the US then? Figures.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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Invisibledownforpot
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5879550 - 07/19/06 10:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RosettaStoned said:
Ahhh so it started in the US then? Figures.




Everything that is bad is because of the USA


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: Phred]
    #5880972 - 07/20/06 10:49 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

Came across this blog....what am I missing here?




What you are missing here (through no fault of your own) is the backstory leading up to that photo. It can be found here --

http://adloyada.typepad.com/adloyada/2006/07/how_to_demonize.html



Phred




Thank you for showing me that, but with all respect, I believe it to be bullshit. Maybe the pictures were taken out of context, but the story they give seems like pure bullshit to me. This is coming from someone with an extreme Bias, and we have to take their word for it. I know the pictures came from someone with a bias, but pictures DON'T LIE.

Is this a joke?


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: d33p]
    #5880978 - 07/20/06 10:50 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
As part of a radio show in miami, people could write on bombs they were dropping on Afganistan(maybe it was iraq) when the war started. Kids were doing it too.




I guess I'll have to take your word for it.  :rolleyes:


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5881181 - 07/20/06 11:58 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thank you for showing me that, but with all respect, I believe it to be bullshit. Maybe the pictures were taken out of context, but the story they give seems like pure bullshit to me. This is coming from someone with an extreme Bias, and we have to take their word for it. I know the pictures came from someone with a bias, but pictures DON'T LIE.




LOL!

Talk about "extreme bias". You refuse to even entertain the possibility that this person is reporting fact. Why? Because she is Jewish.

I read through the thing several times, and also read through the comments and the embedded links. It is an entirely plausible scenario -- young kids cooped up for days and bored out of their minds given an opportunity to do three things kids love to do -- scribble on things, pose for the cameras, and garner approval from adults. It is obvious the TEXT messages on the shells were done by ADULTS -- the neatness of the printing and the fact that the messages are in ENGLISH is the tipoff there. And in case it escaped your attention, the very fact the messages ARE in English indicates the whole thing was staged by the photojournalists. Why on earth would a group of Israelis write in English rather than Hebrew if there were no international audience to consider?

We can't tell from the angle of the photo what the kids are drawing, but I see no reason to assume they are doing anything other than what the author describes -- drawing flags.





Phred


--------------------

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: Phred]
    #5881199 - 07/20/06 12:04 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

From http://ontheface.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2006/7/20/2142505.html

Putting things in perspective

The image above caused a huge storm of outrage in the Arab blogosphere. Huge. You wouldn't believe how huge. The widely-read Gulf-based Palestinian blogger who was the first to post it received so much traffic that he had to move the photo to another server. Many others, including several I know personally, posted it and expressed their disgust. Israeli children taught to hate! Lebanese children are dying and they're happy! They're no better than... (fill in the blank, I don't want to go there).

Below is the story behind the photo - from the source.

I phoned Sebastian Scheiner, the Israeli photojournalist who took the photo for Associated Press (AP), explained that the image had given a really terrible impression and asked for the context. He sketched it out quickly and fluidly, but asked me not to quote him. So I spoke with Shelly Paz, a Yedioth Ahronoth reporter who was also at the scene and agreed immediately to go on record. She was quite shocked to learn how badly the photo had been misinterpreted and misrepresented; and she told me the same story Sebastian did, but with more details and nuance.

The little girls shown drawing with felt markers on the tank missiles are residents of Kiryat Shmona, which is right on the border with Lebanon. And when I say "on the border," I'm not kidding; there's little more space between their town and Southern Lebanon than there is between the back gardens of neighbouring houses in a wealthy American suburb.

No, how close is it really?

Well, there's a famous story in Israel, from the time when the Israeli army occupied Southern Lebanon: a group of soldiers stationed inside southern Lebanon used their mobile phones to order pizza from Kiryat Shmona and have it delivered to the fence that separates the two countries.

Anyway.

Kiryat Shmona has been under constant bombardment from South Lebanon since the first day of the conflict. It was a ghost town, explained Shelly. There was not a single person on the streets and all the businesses were closed. The residents who had friends, family or money for alternate housing out of missile range had left, leaving behind the few who had neither the funds nor connections that would allow them to escape the missiles crashing and booming on their town day and night. The noise was terrifying, people were dying outside, the kids were scared out of their minds and they had been told over and over that some man named Nasrallah was responsible for their having to cower underground for days on end.

On the day that photo was taken, the girls had emerged from the underground bomb shelters for the first time in five days. A new army unit had just arrived in the town and was preparing to shell the area across the border. The unit attracted the attention of twelve photojournalists - Israeli and foreign. The girls and their families gathered around to check out the big attraction in the small town - foreigners. They were relieved and probably a little giddy at being outside in the fresh air for the first time in days. They were probably happy to talk to people. And they enjoyed the attention of the photographers.

Apparently one or some of the parents wrote messages in Hebrew and English on the tank shells to Nasrallah. "To Nasrallah with love," they wrote to the man whose name was for them a devilish image on television - the man who mockingly told Israelis, via speeches that were broadcast on Al Manar and Israeli television, that Hezbollah was preparing to launch even more missiles at them. That he was happy they were suffering.

The photograpers gathered around. Twelve of them. Do you know how many that is? It's a lot. And they were all simultaneously leaning in with their long camera lenses, clicking the shutter over and over. The parents handed the markers to the kids and they drew little Israeli flags on the shells. Photographers look for striking images, and what is more striking than pretty, innocent little girls contrasted with the ugliness of war? The camera shutters clicked away, and I guess those kids must have felt like stars, especially since the diversion came after they'd been alternately bored and terrified as they waited out the shelling in their bomb shelters.

Shelly emphasized several times that none of the parents or children had expressed any hatred toward the Lebanese people. No-one expressed any satisfaction at knowing that Lebanese were dying - just as Israelis are dying. Their messages were directed at Nasrallah. None of those people was detached or wise enough to think: "Hang on, tank shell equals death of human beings." They were thinking, tank shell equals stopping the missiles that land on my house. Tank shells will stop that man with the turban from threatening to kill us.

And besides, none of those children had seen images of dead people - either Israeli or Lebanese. Israeli television doesn't broadcast them, nor do the newspapers print them. Even when there were suicide bombings in Israel several times a week for months, none of the Israeli media published gory photos of dead or wounded people. It's a red line in Israel. Do not show dead, bleeding, torn up bodies because the families of the dead will suffer and children will have nightmares. And because it is just in bad taste to use suffering for propaganda purposes.

Those kids had seen news footage of destroyed buildings and infrastructure, but not of the human toll. They had heard over and over that the air force was destroying the buildings that belonged to Hezbollah, the organization responsible for shelling their town and threatening their lives. How many small children would be able to make the connection between tank shells and dead people on their own? How many human beings are able to detach from their own suffering and emotional stress and think about that of the other side? Not many, I suspect.

So, perhaps the parents were not wise when they encouraged their children to doodle on the tank shells. They were letting off a little steam after being cooped up - afraid, angry and isolated - for days. Sometimes people do silly things when they are under emotional stress. Especially when they fail to understand how their childish, empty gesture might be interpreted.

I've been thinking for the last two days about this photo and the storm of reaction it set off. I worry about the climate of hate that would lead people to look at it and automatically assume the absolute worst - and then use the photo to dehumanize and victimize. I wonder why so many people seem to take satisfaction in believing that little Israeli girls with felt markers in their hands - not weapons, but felt markers - are evil, or spawned by an evil society. I wonder how those people would feel if Israelis were to look at a photo of a Palestinian child wearing a mock suicide belt in a Hamas demonstration and conclude that all Palestinians - nay, all Arabs - are evil.

And I wonder why it is so difficult to think a little, to get it into our heads that television news and photojournalism manipulate our thoughts and emotions.

Links to anti-Israel websites with that photo placed prominently next to the image of a dead Lebanese child have been sent to me several times. Someone has been rushing around the Israeli blogosphere, leaving the link to one particularly abhorrent site in the comments boxes. And it makes me really sad that the emotional climate has deteriorated to this point.

The moderates of the Middle East are locked in a battle with the extremists. And look what they did to the moderates. Without blinking, without thinking, we fell victim to the classic "divide and conquer" technique. We work hard for months and years to build connections, develop our societies, educate ourselves, promote democracy and free speech... And they destroy it all, in less than a week. And we let them.


--------------------

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: Phred]
    #5881319 - 07/20/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

Thank you for showing me that, but with all respect, I believe it to be bullshit. Maybe the pictures were taken out of context, but the story they give seems like pure bullshit to me. This is coming from someone with an extreme Bias, and we have to take their word for it. I know the pictures came from someone with a bias, but pictures DON'T LIE.






LOL!

Talk about "extreme bias". You refuse to even entertain the possibility that this person is reporting fact. Why? Because she is Jewish.

I read through the thing several times, and also read through the comments and the embedded links. It is an entirely plausible scenario -- young kids cooped up for days and bored out of their minds given an opportunity to do three things kids love to do -- scribble on things, pose for the cameras, and garner approval from adults. It is obvious the TEXT messages on the shells were done by ADULTS -- the neatness of the printing and the fact that the messages are in ENGLISH is the tipoff there. And in case it escaped your attention, the very fact the messages ARE in English indicates the whole thing was staged by the photojournalists. Why on earth would a group of Israelis write in English rather than Hebrew if there were no international audience to consider?

We can't tell from the angle of the photo what the kids are drawing, but I see no reason to assume they are doing anything other than what the author describes -- drawing flags.





Phred




Hmmmm I didn't consider the fact that the messages were indeed written in English.

However, I have pictures of this taking place. If some Arab blogger wrote a story about Israeli children writing messages on artillery shells, with no pictures, I would dismiss as false instantly.

One question, why are these Israeli children sitting next to bombs with pens in the first place, I can think of a million better things to do when bored. Why is the Israeli military allowing this, if it is a set up to gain support for Lebanon. Why would they have these messages already written in English, then have the children happen to go over so their picture can be taken, while they have pens in their hands. It doesn't make sense, there are only 2 options IMO.

1) These children are indeed writing these messages of hate with the adults approval.

2) This entire thing has been staged, probably in a foreign country.

The given story from the Israeli makes no sense to me, the only solid point, is the fact that these are written in English.

BTW the handwriting could easily be from those kids who look to be about 9-11 years old. I have seen young children with very neat writing.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5881327 - 07/20/06 12:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Also, it seems Highly unlikely that the IDF would allow foreign photographers anywhere near their battle front. Agreed?


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5881379 - 07/20/06 01:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

One question, why are these Israeli children sitting next to bombs with pens in the first place, I can think of a million better things to do when bored.




You don't remember being a kid? What could be more fascinating than a real live army unit preparing to do real live army stuff? Checking them out sure beats playing hopscotch.

On the day that photo was taken, the girls had emerged from the underground bomb shelters for the first time in five days. A new army unit had just arrived in the town and was preparing to shell the area across the border. The unit attracted the attention of twelve photojournalists - Israeli and foreign. The girls and their families gathered around to check out the big attraction in the small town - foreigners. They were relieved and probably a little giddy at being outside in the fresh air for the first time in days. They were probably happy to talk to people. And they enjoyed the attention of the photographers.

Apparently one or some of the parents wrote messages in Hebrew and English on the tank shells to Nasrallah. "To Nasrallah with love," they wrote to the man whose name was for them a devilish image on television - the man who mockingly told Israelis, via speeches that were broadcast on Al Manar and Israeli television, that Hezbollah was preparing to launch even more missiles at them. That he was happy they were suffering.

The photograpers gathered around. Twelve of them. Do you know how many that is? It's a lot. And they were all simultaneously leaning in with their long camera lenses, clicking the shutter over and over. The parents handed the markers to the kids and they drew little Israeli flags on the shells. Photographers look for striking images, and what is more striking than pretty, innocent little girls contrasted with the ugliness of war? The camera shutters clicked away, and I guess those kids must have felt like stars, especially since the diversion came after they'd been alternately bored and terrified as they waited out the shelling in their bomb shelters.


Quote:

Why would they have these messages already written in English, then have the children happen to go over so their picture can be taken, while they have pens in their hands.




There's nothing hard to grasp about what went on --

-- Kids and parents exit bomb shelter.
-- Parents are understandably keeping kids close by, since there is a war going on, after all.
-- Parents (with kids in tow) talk to soldiers, write messages to Nasrallah on shells.
-- Kids want to get in on the action, too. Photographers encourage kids.
-- Kids grab the same markers their parents were using and proceed to decorate the shells further.

If you click on the link I provided you will see in the photo referred to the kids are writing nowhere near the body of the text, but instead are doodling right up at the very tip of the shells where there is no space to write anything but there is enough space to draw (for example) a star of David.

Your claim that to you it "makes no sense" shows either you've forgotten completely what it was like to be a kid or it shows a bias so extreme as to compel you to dismiss out of a hand a perfectly plausible explanation which fits all the facts -- an explanation confirmed by two of the reporters on the scene at the time the photos were taken. But hey... they were Jewish reporters, so....





Phred


--------------------

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5881388 - 07/20/06 01:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Also, it seems Highly unlikely that the IDF would allow foreign photographers anywhere near their battle front.




"I phoned Sebastian Scheiner, the Israeli photojournalist who took the photo for Associated Press (AP), explained that the image had given a really terrible impression and asked for the context. He sketched it out quickly and fluidly, but asked me not to quote him. So I spoke with Shelly Paz, a Yedioth Ahronoth reporter who was also at the scene and agreed immediately to go on record."






Phred


--------------------

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: WTF, what am I missing here? [Re: Phred]
    #5881404 - 07/20/06 01:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't understanding correctly. Yes, I believe that is possible. When I first read your link, I admit I was skimming. Why would the parents write the messages in English. Something is fishy about this whole thing, and I agree Israeli's could be getting played as more villainous than they are. This does not excuse what is actually happening with the civilian and infrastructure bombing.

But watch, if this turns out to be a hoax, then sympathy for Israel will grow again.

My cynicism tells me that maybe this was an Israeli plan all along. Make themselves look bad through a hoax. Prove it was a hoax and gain worldwide sympathy for this reckless Anti-Semitism.

I know that's not likely, and a stretch, but I consider many options. Something just seems so fishy about this situation, and if it was people just trying to make Israel look bad, they did a sloppy job.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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