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jcee
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Registered: 06/06/06
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casing
#5872770 - 07/18/06 09:01 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i have been folling hypae tips for pinning and all my casing and it is day 4 myc growth coming up through casing I pu them in the fruiting shamber but one of my casing has no growth is this a sign of a contam or should I just leave in the incubator till I see growth
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: casing [Re: jcee]
#5872773 - 07/18/06 09:03 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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It could just be slightly thicker casing that you applied, different moisture contents of casing material (wetter takes longer) or slightly slower moving mycelium - so there's lots of variables that could make it take a different length of time. Unless there's visable mold on your casing surface, or something smells off, its probably not contam'd, and you just need to incubate a little longer.
I know hyphae suggests going 3 days without peeking, then any additional time it takes, but that's just a rule of thumb. Sometimes they're ready in 2 days, sometimes 5 or 6 even. Time your transition to fruiting based on its appearance, be patient and wait for the growth to start poking through it should catch up shortly.
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hyphae
born to grow


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Re: casing [Re: jcee]
#5874762 - 07/18/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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3 days is a good number for a peat casing thickness that I suggest I do point out however that this is a good check time. Coir casings as well as thinner/thicker casings definitely require different timing that is something I've been preaching for years every circumstance is different. Learning what we have going on in front of us and responding correctly will provide consistantly awesome results. BTW mycelium thrives in very moist conditions to the point of near saturation dryer conditions will slow myc growth respectfully. GL guys
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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jcee
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Re: casing [Re: hyphae]
#5875017 - 07/18/06 08:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I did I 50/50 plus w additional 10% coco
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LuNaTiX
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Re: casing [Re: jcee]
#5875192 - 07/18/06 08:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well give it a few more days, as mentioned above it can take 5-6 days sometimes, theres alot of variables involved.
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: casing [Re: LuNaTiX]
#5875279 - 07/18/06 08:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Dude, hyphae, sorry to call you out, but if your substrate or casing is on the dryer side, it'll colonize MUCH faster... Not to say it's better (because it's not), but I purposely make my wbs jars quite dry so they'll colonize faster (water content doesn't matter much to me since i'm spawning to hpoo/coir). I can tell you from experience than a wet casing layer will take longer for the myc to penetrate, and wet substrate is the same. Dry substrate and dry casing layers will colonize faster, but produce smaller, weak shrooms (due to lack of water). I understand you want people to get their water content right, but telling them the reason their casing might be colonizing slowly because of a dry casing is wrong. Obviously a DRY casing wont colonize very fast, but if it's on the dry side of perfect, it'll take less time to colonize than if it were on the wet side of perfect.
-- liamtheloser
ps. feel free to flame me, but I can come to your house and show you that i'm right
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jcee
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Post deleted by jceeReason for deletion: k
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LuNaTiX
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Re: casing [Re: jcee]
#5875308 - 07/18/06 09:00 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think what they're trying to say is just keep an eye on the moisture of the casing, try to keep it moist but not too moist. Just enough for the myc to thrive
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jcee
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Re: casing [Re: LuNaTiX]
#5875313 - 07/18/06 09:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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okay bud
Edited by jcee (07/18/06 09:02 PM)
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Quote:
liamtheloser said: Dude, hyphae, sorry to call you out, but if your substrate or casing is on the dryer side, it'll colonize MUCH faster... Not to say it's better (because it's not), but I purposely make my wbs jars quite dry so they'll colonize faster (water content doesn't matter much to me since i'm spawning to hpoo/coir). I can tell you from experience than a wet casing layer will take longer for the myc to penetrate, and wet substrate is the same. Dry substrate and dry casing layers will colonize faster, but produce smaller, weak shrooms (due to lack of water). I understand you want people to get their water content right, but telling them the reason their casing might be colonizing slowly because of a dry casing is wrong. Obviously a DRY casing wont colonize very fast, but if it's on the dry side of perfect, it'll take less time to colonize than if it were on the wet side of perfect.
-- liamtheloser
ps. feel free to flame me, but I can come to your house and show you that i'm right
Well we're all right in this case but not for the same reasons. 
Most of the casing is non-nutritous. When mycelium "colonizes" a casing, it isn't actually digesting it... its more or less "crawling" on it, absorbing moisture. So in that case, moisture is beneficial. Mycelium digests food by secreting enzymes which decompose it; when its too wet, the enzymes are diluted... resulting in slower decomposition. Over-wet substrate, where its near 100% nutritious, is bad news.
There is 10% coir in this casing, which is nutritious. So you have some "digestion" going on, as well as mycelium reaching out for moisture. This is part of what makes coir casings a little tricky.
So technically there's two different types of colonization happening here... its a subtle difference. In any case, you can over-do it, and you can under-do it.
My original point wasn't even suggesting it may be too wet. I was just pointing out there's many variables involved, and no two cases will be the same.
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liamtheloser
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Registered: 06/07/06
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Oh CC, amen, I couldn't agree with you more! But when it comes to a wet casing, my myc have a very hard time 'crawling' up through it... Once I see some myc coming up, I'll patch and spray til it's glistening! But in my experience, until the myc sprouts up through the casing, I don't spray at all. When I prepare my casing mix, I squeeze it a LITTLE bit under field capacity so it's a little dryer, and I usually am ready to patch and fruit in 2 days, at the most 4. Whereas, I followed someone elses tek more recently (in hopes of more fruits), and I waited 8 days to patch/fruit (just patched today). I can't say for certain that anyone here is unjust in their advice, but I, thank god, have had a different experience with saturated casings (pre-fruiting).
I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but if you want to see fruits a few days earlier, I think being on the dry side of perfect is AOK.
The most important thing you need to take from this thread is that everyone is telling you to keep that moisture content at NEAR perfect.
That and your problem (if it is one) could be stemming from casing layer thickness, casing layer content (ie, you have a bit of coir in there) and FAE. When my casings are incubating, I seal them up and will open them ONCE every other day to check for growth, I think that's enough FAE for something that's trying to incubate.
PS. Creamcorn, you're not entirely correct in your 'crawling' statement... Basically from what I can gather, your myc is searching for more food and water, and that's why it extends up through your casing layer... By the time it reaches the top and finds nothing, that's when it is optimum to fruit (because the myc is going to go into fruiting mode soon anyways). When it finds water, it will absorb some (which takes time) and then continue to search. I found that going just dry of perfect, that the myc will reach the top sooner. That's just a theoretical explaination, but it works for me.
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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you don't agree with me (about the "crawling") yet we've said the same thing. its extending through the casing layer looking for food and water, exactly. so we give it a substance to cling to that isn't food, but can provide water - the casing layer.
being on the dry side is certainly on the safe side, agreed. you should not begin misting your casing layer until the myc is showing through it, agreed again. but once placed at the fc, its time to keep it at near saturation for sure. you don't want it growing much more, and you want it to start pinning. you also want to start accumulating moisture in the network... if its speed to harvest you want, leaving it dry will certainly do that... because you'll end up with stunted, small mushrooms that don't take very long to grow. your "theoretical explanation" is pretty well on point, but is that what you really want? i on the other hand dont mind keeping it wetter and waiting a little longer for more to absorb, because it means bigger yields in the long run (which is what i believe hyphae was getting at.)
we're really just splitting hairs here and its lots of subtle differences, covering a range of "stages" your casing goes through. in the end experience teaches each of us how to best care for it to get the results we're looking for - regardless of how well we can communicate the semantics of that with one another
Edited by creamcorn (07/18/06 09:53 PM)
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
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I love you baby
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
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awww, dont jizz on me! don't get me wrong, i like a little slapping around, but jerking off on me is just overboard :P
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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who said you were the one on the right?
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jcee
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hahha
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