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OfflinePhishe
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Words are a creation
    #5872049 - 07/18/06 01:33 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

This has crossed my mind a few times and i thought i'd get it out to see what everyone thinks.

There are time when I contemplate life and creation, and I start to come to some conclusion but i realize that my conclusions are meaningless. Language is a creation of man and by this creation we think through words. Our concepts and laws of reality has a foundation of words. These words are completely developed by us, so how can the laws we have be true. For example, "Life is a period of time of interacting with various senses of the mind" This can be translated into a meaningless theory because the fact that man created these words to understand.

Meaningless rant or am i on to something? :confused:


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InvisibleFlop Johnson
Praise Skatballah
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Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 13,789
Loc: TX
Re: Words are a creation [Re: Phishe]
    #5872054 - 07/18/06 01:37 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You're on to a historical anecdote.

Language is comparative, thus never wholly specific. For example any words describing an emotion or abstract thought are immediately filtered through experience - which is why they always remain comparative.


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Offlinerockytop83
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Registered: 01/21/04
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Re: Words are a creation [Re: Phishe]
    #5872116 - 07/18/06 02:01 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:
Language is a creation of man and by this creation we think through words. Our concepts and laws of reality has a foundation of words.





Who REALLY created the FIRST words???????


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~You know that same rowdy crowd was here last night is back again~


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InvisibleFlop Johnson
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Registered: 09/22/05
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Re: Words are a creation [Re: rockytop83]
    #5872124 - 07/18/06 02:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

rockytop83 said:
Who REALLY created the FIRST words???????




Ancient men.


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Invisibleblackdragon999
Mason

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
Re: Words are a creation [Re: Phishe]
    #5872168 - 07/18/06 02:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:
This has crossed my mind a few times and i thought i'd get it out to see what everyone thinks.

There are time when I contemplate life and creation, and I start to come to some conclusion but i realize that my conclusions are meaningless. Language is a creation of man and by this creation we think through words. Our concepts and laws of reality has a foundation of words. These words are completely developed by us, so how can the laws we have be true. For example, "Life is a period of time of interacting with various senses of the mind" This can be translated into a meaningless theory because the fact that man created these words to understand.

Meaningless rant or am i on to something? :confused:




sometimes I dream and there is no sound or commication. Forgive me for interjecting this but I must, it is my profession...

"90 percent of commincation is without words but is emphasized on expression and body language. 5 percent is tone. And 5 percent is audiable words"

Therefore your thoughts are sometimes without words. If there where no languages or customs how would people communicate? Animals communicate with that to a degree. They get angry and sad and lonley, without words.(let me assume) Okay, imagine there is no language to speak. The only way I could tell you I was angry at you was to prove it. Therefore I kick you in the head(okay, bad example). Words can mean diffent things depending on how they are said. ex. "I'm the man" can mean that I am either bragging about myself or I am distinguishing myself from a trasvestite. Forget  for a minute everything you've learned, all the textbooks and things people tell you, all the theory and logic goe's out the window.


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OfflinePhishe
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Re: Words are a creation [Re: blackdragon999]
    #5872180 - 07/18/06 02:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blackdragon999 said:
Quote:

Phishe said:
This has crossed my mind a few times and i thought i'd get it out to see what everyone thinks.

There are time when I contemplate life and creation, and I start to come to some conclusion but i realize that my conclusions are meaningless. Language is a creation of man and by this creation we think through words. Our concepts and laws of reality has a foundation of words. These words are completely developed by us, so how can the laws we have be true. For example, "Life is a period of time of interacting with various senses of the mind" This can be translated into a meaningless theory because the fact that man created these words to understand.

Meaningless rant or am i on to something? :confused:




sometimes I dream and there is no sound or commication. Forgive me for interjecting this but I must, it is my profession...

"90 percent of commincation is without words but is emphasized on expression and body language. 5 percent is tone. And 5 percent is audiable words"

Therefore your thoughts are sometimes without words. If there where no languages or customs how would people communicate? Animals communicate with that to a degree. They get angry and sad and lonley, without words.(let me assume) Okay, imagine there is no language to speak. The only way I could tell you I was angry at you was to prove it. Therefore I kick you in the head(okay, bad example). Words can mean diffent things depending on how they are said. ex. "I'm the man" can mean that I am either bragging about myself or I am distinguishing myself from a trasvestite. Forget  for a minute everything you've learned, all the textbooks and things people tell you, all the theory and logic goe's out the window.




I figured something like this would come up and I dont know if i'm capable of arguing that.

Isn't our "body language" and non verbal communication created by humans also? So this kind of goes hand in hand.

But for the verbal part, i was thinking more of theories, and trying to explain the unexplainable can not really work due to our creation of these words and their meanings, and I guess now the non-verbal communnication and it's meanings.


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: Words are a creation [Re: blackdragon999]
    #5872195 - 07/18/06 02:37 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

there is a segment in the book "sex drugs Einstein and elves" by Clifford A Pickover which talks about the safir-whorf hypothesis which basically says language greatly effects are perception of reality. there's also another part where it talks about how we do not need language to think...Einstein himself thought everything in images and merely used words to help people comprehend his theory's. A lot of autistic people think in images as well. The book might interest you...has a good chapter on DMT theories too.


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: Words are a creation [Re: Phishe]
    #5872223 - 07/18/06 02:53 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:
But for the verbal part, i was thinking more of theories, and trying to explain the unexplainable can not really work due to our creation of these words and their meanings, and I guess now the non-verbal communication and it's meanings.




An example from the book talks about this group of {yes still living} natives in which they have no knowledge of numbers in there language. When telling a story to one another they have no was of distinguishing how many people they were with or how much of something they found. When scientist tried to teach them simple math such as adding the adult member could barely understand the concept. You can train a chimpanzee to count to ten while these natives had trouble counting to 5 even with there fingers. The concept of numbers just doesn't make sense. Now if these people cant understand something like that it makes you think what kind of theory's and such are out there which we have no idea of and are impossible for us to understand. I believe while on psychedelics it opens are brains filter and lets us expand are consciousness. When people say " I finally understand it now" or "It makes so much sense" while tripping balls ,they're just thinking with a higher level of conscience


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Invisibleblackdragon999
Mason

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
Re: Words are a creation [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5872251 - 07/18/06 03:13 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I figured something like this would come up and I dont know if i'm capable of arguing that.

Isn't our "body language" and non verbal communication created by humans also? So this kind of goes hand in hand.

But for the verbal part, i was thinking more of theories, and trying to explain the unexplainable can not really work due to our creation of these words and their meanings, and I guess now the non-verbal communnication and it's meanings.




In which way are people capable of "creating"? My theory is that instinct drives the insect to kill and survive. Was that insinct created by the insect?


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Words are a creation [Re: Phishe]
    #5873008 - 07/18/06 11:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Creation is word. We just re-learn.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleBuddahKillah
U WANTFITE!?!?!?!?!?!

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 1,733
Re: Words are a creation [Re: Phishe]
    #5873017 - 07/18/06 11:05 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:
This has crossed my mind a few times and i thought i'd get it out to see what everyone thinks.

There are time when I contemplate life and creation, and I start to come to some conclusion but i realize that my conclusions are meaningless. Language is a creation of man and by this creation we think through words. Our concepts and laws of reality has a foundation of words. These words are completely developed by us, so how can the laws we have be true. For example, "Life is a period of time of interacting with various senses of the mind" This can be translated into a meaningless theory because the fact that man created these words to understand.

Meaningless rant or am i on to something? :confused:




Your entire theory is also just words and therefor just as meaningless. Understand?  Its the loop. 

"Nothing but lies come out of my mouth," said the master. "There - see! I've just done it again."


Edited by BuddahKillah (07/18/06 11:44 AM)


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Words are a creation [Re: BuddahKillah]
    #5873066 - 07/18/06 11:19 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

koans are a good illustration of the nothingness of words and sentence.s

i.e. what is the sound of one hand clapping?

perhaps the master who sees past words, can then use words to paint a richer view of reality than the man who is enslaved by words, thinking they are concrete and must be so.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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Offlinecapliberty
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Registered: 04/23/06
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Re: Words are a creation [Re: leery11]
    #5874041 - 07/18/06 04:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

dogma is arbitrary and flawed, but a refrence point is useful for

the preceiver to choose a tool to precieve reality, which vehicle do

you choose


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