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shroomneb1
Stranger
Registered: 07/09/06
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What happens when one dies?
#5868777 - 07/17/06 10:06 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was under impression that when a person dies he or she leaves the body and for a little while exist in the astral plane in our physical world as a ghost. Then this ghost decides to ascend back where it came from thro the light.
I was under impression that the perosn will ascend no matter what he or she has done in his her life, all the ghost has to do is ascend and there God will forgive you.
Few days ago i made a post asking if its ok to kill in self defence, and there doesnt seem to be much choise.
My friend tells me that if you kill someone after you die you have no choice but to go into hellish state. And she seems pretty sure of it.
That scares me and i dont understand why you have to go to hell. But my friend is pretty developed spiritually so i have reaosn to trust here.
Still doesnt make any since to me. God send you to earth, to a place dwelling with murderers and scum, he also gave you basic survival instinct, so when a situation arises youd be crazy not to try and defend yourself. You see what im saying?
Isnt that redicelously cruel and plain wrong to send a person into hell if he or she defended themselves??
WHat about all the counter terrorist forces, soldiers, police officers? A man comes down into a mall and starts shooting with M4, would a police officer just stand there and let it happen? Im sure he would be pretty pissed to find out that if he knocked him out for good he is going to hell after he dies.
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: shroomneb1]
#5868793 - 07/17/06 10:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Heaven and hell are metaphors for states of mind experienced right here in this very lifetime.
When you die, you die. What's left to ascend or descend or return to sender?
But my friend is pretty developed spiritually so i have reaosn to trust here.
That's sweet and all, but please don't do that. QUESTION AUTHORITY. For that matter, question everything. So what if your friend says something is so? Other people have said otherwise, why not trust them? Fuck that! Find out for yourself, think for yourself brother.
You see what im saying?
Yeah I think so.
Isnt that redicelously cruel and plain wrong to send a person into hell if he or she defended themselves??
Aha! See, you're already questioning, this ees goood, very good.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: shroomneb1]
#5868797 - 07/17/06 10:15 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I can't be completely sure what happens after death, but I hope there's an afterparty.
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undersativaskies
blue ridgerepresent


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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: dblaney]
#5868798 - 07/17/06 10:16 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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You die, and you die alone. Pretty sure when you die you get a huge body rush and then die and shit your pants. Cant wait to shit my pants.
-------------------- The wolves howl, the sheep dwell, and the fool casts his whom.
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: dblaney]
#5868883 - 07/17/06 10:55 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i surmize some shift in experiential physics simmilar to being stoned (but different) in which time stops or runs at 90 degrees to its usual path.
speaking of 90 degrees anybody hot today?
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: redgreenvines]
#5868902 - 07/17/06 11:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why do you think that?
Yeah I feel like I'm broiling!
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: shroomneb1]
#5868906 - 07/17/06 11:03 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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"SURPRISE ! YOU'RE DEAD !" or --- blink out ----
Chances are 50/50. Who wants to bet on that ?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5868922 - 07/17/06 11:07 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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we I would not bet on anything like that but the sense of time and progress and the sense of self are entangled. when life stops the self in this timeline really does stop. the tenacious part of mind might have a trapdoor, but I am not sure it goes anywhere, though I am not sure it doesn't either.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: redgreenvines]
#5868987 - 07/17/06 11:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Let's play the 'if game' here and ramble a bit. If the 'self' will die, what was its value to existence in 'afterlife' ? Isn't the self that what is 'tenacious' ? But I see you mean more that of an 'essence' what 'could' be evaporated into metaspace again. I think, the self gives us the power of choice, that is empowering the development of our...'essence'. Which is coupled with our choice therefor and perhaps makes us not die and receive that waking-call after death. Otherwise, if the self dies, the 'tenacious' parts can die, too, if they were not translated from it and stored save somwhere.
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soulcircus
Stranger


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Re: What happens when one dies? *DELETED* [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5869025 - 07/17/06 11:38 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by soulcircusReason for deletion: .
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: soulcircus]
#5869072 - 07/17/06 11:53 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you really 'are', you will also are to be (to be to be...)  That's why knowing death is knowing life.
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Viveka
refutation bias


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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: shroomneb1]
#5869082 - 07/17/06 11:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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You find out what happens when one dies.
Or maybe you don't. There may not be much of anything to experience, or enough awareness to experience it with.
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: soulcircus]
#5869110 - 07/17/06 12:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
soulcircus said: i don't know for sure what happens after you die, but i know for sure im alive now, and that i got here somehow, and in inifinity with infinite possibilities, i must be able to come to be something again.
But what 'you' will it be when you are something again?
The elements that composed you in this life will certainly reform into many new forms, probably even new life. Is that what you mean? Or do you mean that soulcircus will die and then later on at some point soulcircus will once again be?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: soulcircus]
#5870372 - 07/17/06 06:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
soulcircus said: i don't know for sure what happens after you die, but i know for sure im alive now, and that i got here somehow, and in inifinity with infinite possibilities, i must be able to come to be something again.
my sentiments too.
i would just kind of wager from my experience with dreams that most all of you dies, but there are things you are fixated upon which we can call karmic impressions, that will reassemble around a new "you" and create your own reality.... just like how you fall apart during deep sleep, and then you are put back together into a dream world based upon who you are in the waking world, and what is on your mind, etc.
i think death is an impossibility, because the ego absolutely could not accept being shut down completely. I think it is the ego that keeps itself stuck in cycles of rebirth...
I mean think about how long you've been alive then SMOOF it's gone and you are NOTHING NEVER AGAIN.
It is so incomprehensible just being ALIVE that being dead is even more incomprehensibly absurd.
So I agree with the concept of a bardo, a dream-like state between incarnations, or births.
to me, the issue of self defense mainly has two applications: how YOU judge yourself, and how your victim judges you.
now if you are able to move on in grace and love you would gradually transmute the bad karma...... the victim may or may not bare much hatred upon you (though he initiated it eh?) and may wish for vengeance, or he may reflect and say "you know, i deserved this entirely" and maybe he loves you right now.
so, if he has a bone to pick with you, that may manifest in future lives, not necessarily in hell as it was not an act of deliberate murder, i would assume that a LITERAL hell realm is for people that cannot tolerate the existence of other people, and will take up violence against one another and harbor much hatred........
as a Buddhist nun said.... in hell they have tons of food, but no one gets to eat because they are constantly fighting over it.
so, are you the kind of person constantly fighting over things and bearing extreme hostility and hatred at the world?
and to the Buddhists, hell is not a permanent place. you go until your misdeeds clear up.
the only permanent thing is nirvana, the cessation of karma, the cessation of suffering and freedom from the world of living/dying. even heaven is not permanent for them.
and to them, it is an extremely fortunate thing to be a human, as that is the best place [is it the only? i think i recall devas being taught by the Buddha] to cultivate spirituality, so that you can attain nirvana, or if not that, be well on your path and keep going upward.
so consider this fuel to motivate a life of spiritual living.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (07/17/06 06:52 PM)
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: shroomneb1]
#5870380 - 07/17/06 06:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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regarding afterlife and hell, check my other thread about Bible
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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blackdragon999
Mason

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
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when you die, how can you be certain you are dead? what is death? you could be dead and not even know it. A mirror of yourself.
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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it could be like in waking life.
you are just walking along and things keep getting dreamier and dreamier each day. then you find, wait, I am in a dream... what happened? why am i not waking up? and you progress and search and muse and move on.
perhaps your "death" is just something you dream about, and from that point on life becomes more and more dreamy until realization occurs.
that would be very suiting.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (07/17/06 06:57 PM)
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


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Quote:
blackdragon999 said: when you die, how can you be certain you are dead? what is death? you could be dead and not even know it. A mirror of yourself.
well, yea, human consciousness is overrated, and with it is his importance overrated. I mean, you can consider yourself enlightened, or this or that, but when you faint, you are just gone, and you aren't even aware of what you are. It is such a fragile thing, human consciousness, and significant only to him who gives it significance out of mercy or love
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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blackdragon999
Mason

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: leery11]
#5870450 - 07/17/06 06:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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what if "life" is just a dream.
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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in many ways it is, the question is attaining lucidity.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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blackdragon999
Mason

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: leery11]
#5870546 - 07/17/06 07:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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if that question is indeed lucid. tell me why you believe I am talking to you right now...or do you?
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Newbie
User of semicolons.


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It will be just like before you were born. You weren't really anything. Then cells formed from TINY chromosomes and you were pieced together, and eventually your conscious kicked in and you learned how to manipulate your surroundings.
Now imagine that but completely backwards, and at the end is when you lose consciousness and become what you once were.
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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i dunno.
is that a wakeup call?
i still have questions, because my lucid dreaming practice does not really seem to yield the same experiential fruits in "waking" reality, such that though things seem like they could be entirely made up of dream.... I am still left with a concrete world.
i suppose waking up all of a sudden would not do very well at all though, now, would it? more of a gradual empowerment, freedom, and liberation, that you could sanely handle.
so are you NOT talk to me? I pose this question not in the sense of "all one mind" but more like, do you have sentience to be able to talk to me right now?
as far as I know, my dream characters don't have sentience unless they have something important to teach me, otherwise they are easy to control and just reflections of me... me being the "God" mind, whereas I assume God has this relation to us, none of us in particular ARE the God mind dreaming... rather can awaken to God's lucidity.
meaning that I'm real and so are you, separateness may be an illusion but it's not like you're in my head, it's like we're in the "God head" [together] that may be an issue of semantics though.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (07/17/06 07:20 PM)
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SimpleThoughts
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Quote:
blackdragon999 said: what if "life" is just a dream.
Dreams aren't ''real'', so Life can't be a dream because of all the ''good'' and ''bad'' emotions that you feel. Emotions are real because they are in you.
well... thats how i see it ^_-
-------------------- WE CAN'T CHANGE THE WORLD. LIKE EVERY PERSON, THE WORLD IS WHAT HE IS, THE ONLY THINGS WE HAVE TO DO IS, RESPECT IT AND DEAL WITH IT.
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it stars saddam
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Quote:
SimpleThoughts said:
Quote:
blackdragon999 said: what if "life" is just a dream.
Dreams aren't ''real'', so Life can't be a dream because of all the ''good'' and ''bad'' emotions that you feel. Emotions are real because they are in you.
I often experience intense emotions in my dreams.
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SimpleThoughts
One Man Show


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Quote:
itstarssaddam said:
Quote:
SimpleThoughts said:
Quote:
blackdragon999 said: what if "life" is just a dream.
Dreams aren't ''real'', so Life can't be a dream because of all the ''good'' and ''bad'' emotions that you feel. Emotions are real because they are in you.
I often experience intense emotions in my dreams.
Yes but these emotions don't affect you're life, but emotions that you experience in your life can. That's why life is real and dreams not.
-------------------- WE CAN'T CHANGE THE WORLD. LIKE EVERY PERSON, THE WORLD IS WHAT HE IS, THE ONLY THINGS WE HAVE TO DO IS, RESPECT IT AND DEAL WITH IT.
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blackdragon999
Mason

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
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Quote:
SimpleThoughts said:
Quote:
itstarssaddam said:
Quote:
SimpleThoughts said:
Quote:
blackdragon999 said: what if "life" is just a dream.
Dreams aren't ''real'', so Life can't be a dream because of all the ''good'' and ''bad'' emotions that you feel. Emotions are real because they are in you.
I often experience intense emotions in my dreams.
Yes but these emotions don't affect you're life, but emotions that you experience in your life can. That's why life is real and dreams not.
I am emotion...emotion is me. Emotions are not real because they are in me, but because they are me. If indeed I am an illusion then those emotions would also be. They are only chemicals, I believe I am I am alive because even illusions are "reality". Dreams are just as real as "real life".
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Edited by blackdragon999 (07/17/06 09:49 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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the emotions and visions of my dreams are the core of my life and influence what I do day to day. what I do day to day influences my dreams neither is more or less real to me
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blackdragon999
Mason

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
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Re: What happens when one dies? [Re: redgreenvines]
#5871662 - 07/17/06 11:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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what comes first... the chicken or egg?
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Edited by blackdragon999 (07/17/06 11:34 PM)
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