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OfflineAKSE
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Have I found some Pan. Subbs?
    #5866383 - 07/16/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Well today when I went to mow the lawn I found these guys hiding in the grass. It seems about the right habitat, fertilized lawn. Most caps were about 1/2" in diameter and had the pan subb appearance with the tan cap with light brown rim. I am taking spore prints right now, we'll see if they turn out black. In one picture you can see spore deposits on another mushrooms but it looks almost a deep-deep-brown instead of a black. Any help would be appreciated.




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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: AKSE]
    #5867208 - 07/16/06 08:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

deep-deep-brown instead of a black





Panaeolina foenisecii, the most commonly found mushroom on the planet. they are not active.


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OfflineMorphMan
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: shroomydan]
    #5867211 - 07/16/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

^ I agree


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: MorphMan]
    #5869234 - 07/17/06 12:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I took sporeprints overnight and was very excited to see that one of the caps I sporeprinted had a very obvious jet-black print. I have a pic below. Could there possibly be both Pan Foes and Subbs in my yard?


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Offlinexmush
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: AKSE]
    #5869307 - 07/17/06 01:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

AKSE said:
I took sporeprints overnight and was very excited to see that one of the caps I sporeprinted had a very obvious jet-black print. I have a pic below. Could there possibly be both Pan Foes and Subbs in my yard?





Definitely could have a mixed collection in your yard. I think a lot of people have found them growing together. That's why it is recommended to spore-print your entire collection. I'd be excited too , that black print makes subb a lot more likely (for that specific mushroom of course).


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Offlineavionando
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: AKSE]
    #5869331 - 07/17/06 01:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I would suggest you keep looking, in time you will become very familiar with the foes becuase as it has been said they are very common. Pan Subbs definately have a different look to them. Compare data in various field guides and focus on those two species. In my experience the subbs are far less common but when I find them I know right away. Habitat is the easiest way to tell them apart until you become more familiar with them.


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: avionando]
    #5869580 - 07/17/06 03:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

As Xmush instructed, you will want to spore print all of the mushrooms you suspect to be subbs, in order to "weed out" any foes.
It's a lot of work, I know.


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: CureCat]
    #5869617 - 07/17/06 03:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

The one that gave the jet-black print was all tan on the cap. Pan subbs don't always have to have a brown ring around the rim, correct? Yes I will deffinitly be spore printing everything and I will keep you updated with pics. So as far as I know (fertilized..does it matter?)grass and fields are the prime areas to look for this species.


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InvisibleMead

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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? *DELETED* [Re: AKSE]
    #5869694 - 07/17/06 03:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Mead

Reason for deletion: .


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: Mead]
    #5873375 - 07/18/06 01:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Okay well today I went out and found other possible subs in another grassy field. The pics are below. I would like your guy's oppinions if these represent subs? I also found some whiter ones which I believe to be the foes.

][/url]


However, the ones collected from my yard have yielded a black spore print which I will post once my camera has new batteries.


Edited by AKSE (07/18/06 01:20 PM)


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: AKSE]
    #5873415 - 07/18/06 01:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Those big meaty ones do indeed look like subs to me.


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Offlinexmush
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #5873492 - 07/18/06 01:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You know the drill now, print them all! Mostly look like foens to me though.


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: xmush]
    #5873525 - 07/18/06 01:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Are there any other mushrooms that grow on grass with black spore prints that I need be worried about confusing these with? So are the whiter ones the foens?

*Update*
I just took spore prints of all the new ones and the whiter ones are a very dinstinct black print. The sub-look alikes haven't filled in very well yet. Foens dont have black prints do they?


Edited by AKSE (07/18/06 01:55 PM)


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Invisiblepsiclops
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: xmush]
    #5873557 - 07/18/06 01:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not too experienced with Pan. Subbalteatus, but rumor has it: They commonly have a more tough twisty stipe. Also look for red fiberous characteristics in the stipes. The black spores are probably the best ID characteristics, and the gills will help to reveal the color of the spores. If the gills are a light brown, it is more likely that the spores will not be dark black.


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Offlinexmush
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: AKSE]
    #5873573 - 07/18/06 02:00 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I can't really tell what the whiter ones are without a more closeup shot of the cap and gills and stem. Subbs caps will fade a bit, as will foes, so they could be one of those. Foens will not have a black spore print, it may be dark brown but not black. I can't think of any poisonous look alikes that would be in that environment and have black spores. I suppose a coprinus could be mistaken, but you definitely don't have any of those.


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: xmush]
    #5873627 - 07/18/06 02:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Okay. Also all of the "subs" I have collected have been under 1" in cap diameter, can subs be this small?


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Invisiblepsiclops
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: AKSE]
    #5874807 - 07/18/06 07:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Panaeolina Foenesecii tend to be much smaller (at full maturity) than Panaeolus Subbalteatus tend to be (at full maturity) but the size of any given mushroom obviously varies as it grows (to full maturity). And other factors determine how quickly mushrooms will rot and loose their edibility. If the environment will allow it, a mushroom could grow abnormally large (and still be edible), or if the environment does not permit it, the mushroom could be stalled to a smaller specimen.

OR, yes pan subbs can be that small.


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Offlinehomegrownusa
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: psiclops]
    #5875387 - 07/18/06 09:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Dont all pans or most have black spores how can I tell subbs from others on shit or in southern pastures?


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InvisibleMead

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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? *DELETED* [Re: homegrownusa]
    #5875413 - 07/18/06 09:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Mead

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Offlinehomegrownusa
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: Mead]
    #5876113 - 07/19/06 12:10 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

right on I read somewheres they grow in shit is that true. Tehy arent really on the top of my agenda when im pickin copes and cubes ive never looked for them I have seen some like em off shit but they may be another pann just wonderin. The spore print would be the same as non active pans and I dont think they bruise nor grow plentiful down here


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Offlineavionando
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: homegrownusa]
    #5877245 - 07/19/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

quote from Mushrooms demystified

"the larger size and black gills in age distinguish it from the common, lawn-inhabiting panaeolus feonisecii, which may also have a zoned cap"


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: avionando]
    #5890250 - 07/23/06 11:33 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

One species collected with the 'subs' in a different area than my yard had jet-black spores which made the previous black-prints of the subs look maybe a super dark brown.  Its such a dark print that it appears black but doesnt match the same as the other jet-black print.  I guess these must be foes?  It's hard for me to tell the difference between dark-dark-brown and black prints :dancing:


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Offlinesyntech
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: AKSE]
    #5893880 - 07/24/06 09:22 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Eat em and find out. You have obviously positively nailed the genus and whether it's a foe or subb their not toxic. Your either gonna trip, or eat a bunch nasty tasting mushrooms for nothing. But no Pan will kill you. I've personally eaten foes and subbs and probably another species or two back in the day they always grew together down here in cow feilds. I leave em alone these days even though they grow right with the cubes in the feilds, not so much Subbs but more foes.
They were all weakly hallucinogenic. It takes a shit load of em to reach like a level two, and sometimes they were even weaker than that. The Subbs are more potent, but still not strong enough for me.


Edited by syntech (07/24/06 09:24 AM)


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InvisibleFeanor
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: syntech]
    #5893924 - 07/24/06 10:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Dude, why would you eat pan foes!? They wont kill you, but they will give you the shits, and that ain't fun!


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Offlineundersativaskies
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: Feanor]
    #5893936 - 07/24/06 10:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

poop.


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Offline2859558484
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: undersativaskies]
    #5894213 - 07/24/06 12:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

some pasture subbs are pretty hard to tell from copes, and i admit ive probably eaten a few in my time, no ill effects noted.


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Edited by 2859558484 (07/24/06 12:28 PM)


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: 2859558484]
    #5894334 - 07/24/06 01:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

...yeah, but "pasture subbs" or Panaeolus subbalteatus, is an active mushroom...? Did you mean Foes, aka Panaeolina foenisecii maire? Subbs tend not to be as strong as copes, but people do seek them out for their chemical properties.


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: CureCat]
    #5894339 - 07/24/06 01:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Oh, and subbs and copes don't look very similar, really. Maybe you meant somes Pans = Panaeolus? Panaeolus campanulatus, and Panaeolus semiovatus are more likely to be confused with Copelandia species, yet they are not active or contain an insignificant amount of active chemicals.


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Have I found some Pan. Subbs? [Re: CureCat]
    #5898089 - 07/25/06 12:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I might add that I live in southeast alaska, not near anywhere where copes would grow.  Lots of big Amanitas though!  I just found my first one of the year last week. :afro:


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