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Mepher
Reverend

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 129
Loc: Praha, CZK
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Cubenisseur] 1
#5868148 - 07/17/06 02:20 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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There is no good vermiciulite substitute, if you want to grow shrooms via a PFesque method:
1. There is nothing wrong with verm. - the only problem it ever had was a PR problem relating to a verm. mine that was contaminated with asbestos. The verm. had nothing to do with the problem, really.
2. Vermiculite is cheap and widely available. If you can't find it at Lowe's or Home Depot locally, or any of the many smaller shops you're bound to find, you can EASILY find it for cheap on the internet. Even eBay sellers sell it for pretty darned cheap!
3. Pebbles will not fold moisture. If you think they are even a remotely viable alternative, you need to read the FAQs.
4. Have you ever seen wet popped popcorn? Yeah, it is light and airy when dry, but it becomes a dense, sloppy mess immediately when wet. Plus it degrades VERY quickly, especially if heated. And it would be a magnet for contams.
5. Ever seen wet cardboard? A heavy, sloppy mess as well. I'd guess it is no better than simply over-watering your substrate. You want something maintains its volume once wet and releases water slowly. Cardboard will not fit that bill.
6. Cotton, as with the other potential subs mentioned, will compact and release water more quickly than desired. It is also organic and will degrade too quickly, I'd guess.
Read the FAQs. There is NOTHING wrong with verm, and you'd be VERY hard-pressed to find a viable substitute for it in the teks that call for it. The Shroomery contains enough knowledge that if there were a commonly available substitute for verm, even an inferior but usable one, we'd all know about it. Either go bulk or order some vermiculite online.
Someone close the thread now, please?
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beatnicknick
The Innovator


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 1,074
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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No, please do not close this thread, don't shut me out like that. I didn't think pebbles would work, roadkill or someone like that suggested it (someone with a lot of posts) Cardboard when wet retains its shape and it absorbs a lot of water, I have it in a jar with BRF now, I'm just waiting on spores.
How would everyone know about a working substitute if you have THAT attitude, that they would know about it without even trying anything new.
You would have made a terrible assistant to Thomas Edison as he was trying to find the fiber to use in the light bulb.
"Edison, that is your 30th try, would you just GIVE UP! The candle is just fine, and I think you're doing this out of paranoia that it will start a fire! If there was a different source of light, don't you think we would have found it by now? For god sakes its 1879!"
-------------------- I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.
Edited by beatnicknick (07/17/06 02:47 AM)
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: beatnicknick]
#5869763 - 07/17/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Dude, are you really comparing finding a substitute for verm to the invention of the light bulb? 
BTW, "The Innovator"? Is that in reference to your vision of a verm free world?
--------------------
Quick WBS Prep
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: beatnicknick]
#5869857 - 07/17/06 04:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
beatnicknick said:
No, please do not close this thread, don't shut me out like that.
I didn't think pebbles would work, roadkill or someone like that suggested it (someone with a lot of posts)
Cardboard when wet retains its shape and it absorbs a lot of water, I have it in a jar with BRF now, I'm just waiting on spores.
How would everyone know about a working substitute if you have THAT attitude, that they would know about it without even trying anything new.
no worries about closing your thread...so far. as long as this doesn't turn into a flamefest...have at it!~
and no...I didn't suggest using pebbles... so leave my name out of that crap!~ lolzz (I think it was RR)
I think that maybe cardboard could be used as long as it isn't soaking wet... by just dampening it... and finding the right moisture content and it might work!~ 
I know that Coco Coir has been used as a Verm alternative with PF jars. But the cost of Coco Coir is sorta spendy... and you would have to find the right moisture content to use it too.
there is nothing wrong with trying to find new alternatives for anything... but I really don't think your going to find something easier to work with than Verm.
good luck!~
tc
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 1,421
Loc: Wal-Merica
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Roadkill]
#5870153 - 07/17/06 05:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Roadkill said: there is nothing wrong with trying to find new alternatives for anything...
Exactly, TRYING. Have some goddamn Gumption. go search out something that will work, test it, and tell us the results.
YOU would be a terrible Thomas Edison, i dont think he spent too much time asking others if his ideas were 'good'. He just did it, again and again, until he proved everyone wrong. so history says... really he was a manipulative little bitch that flexed his money and influence at the time to steal other peoples ideas and squash amazing inventors such as Tesla.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Omnicracker]
#5870347 - 07/17/06 06:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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> YOU would be a terrible Thomas Edison, i dont think he spent too much time asking others if his ideas were 'good'.
I'm sure he checked into the research that had already been done and asked around to see what other people had tried.
IIRC he didn't just pull the idea of what to use out of his ass, he was inspired by anothers research on the substance that he ended up using.
-FF
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Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 1,421
Loc: Wal-Merica
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: fastfred]
#5870847 - 07/17/06 08:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i like to make things up, sorry. but the part about edison sucking is all true.
point being that i wish more people would just DO, instead of talking passionatly until they lose interest. ill show myself out...
Edited by Omnicracker (07/17/06 08:08 PM)
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Omnicracker]
#5870917 - 07/17/06 08:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you really want a good project for your 'vermiculite replacement', please, for god's sake, figure out the ratio of water crystals to brf. I have a jar of water crystals just sitting in my shed waiting for someone else to come up with the ratios. I tried myself a couple times a while back, and haven't had time to perfect. That would be a great thing for you to do! If you found that out, I wouldn't have to waste a pound of super absorbent, time releasing, nutrient rich polymer crystals!
So yeah, do that, THEN I'll give you 5 shrooms and a blowjob.
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splifner180
Student


Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1,288
Loc: USA, East Coast
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: fastfred]
#5871003 - 07/17/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I would use verm if it was available to me but it isn't. As a substitute I've been using Schultz All-Purpose Soil Conditioner.

A number of people have told me that it shouldn't (and won't) work well but I've had nothing but good luck. I cut my hpoo with it (1:3, Schultz:hpoo IIRC). It also makes up 50% of my casing layer, the other half being coir. I've tried using 100% Schultz for a casing layer and it worked but not nearly as well as the 50/50.
splif
-------------------- First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: liamtheloser]
#5871011 - 07/17/06 08:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
liamtheloser said:
So yeah, do that, THEN I'll give you 5 shrooms and a blowjob.
so thats what I got to do... to get a blow job and 5 shrooms around here?
damn this is a tuff crowd!~
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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No_Life_G33k
Now with 10%less noobness


Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 356
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Roadkill]
#5877089 - 07/19/06 09:53 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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You're scared of vermiculite, but you use ALUMINUM???? Don't you wonder why the aluminum has holes in it when the casing is done???
BTW - read the warning on flouride toothpaste sometime. <shocked>
I support experimentation, I just think you efforts would be better spent on a different project.
find a way to replace bleach with peroxide.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: No_Life_G33k] 2
#5877415 - 07/19/06 11:41 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Finding a vermiculite replacement should be a high priority for those who do pf type cakes. It's a fact of life that verm is getting harder and harder to find, so let's cut the bullshit about some mine in Montana. In my area, the nurseries, lowes, and home depot do NOT carry it in stock and they will NOT order it when asked. Those who would flame people for looking for a replacement remind me of those would wait until they're already starving to look for food. . .Evolution will soon enough remove them from the gene pool. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5877520 - 07/19/06 12:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Finding a vermiculite replacement should be a high priority for those who do pf type cakes. It's a fact of life that verm is getting harder and harder to find, so let's cut the bullshit about some mine in Montana. In my area, the nurseries, lowes, and home depot do NOT carry it in stock and they will NOT order it when asked.
Those who would flame people for looking for a replacement remind me of those would wait until they're already starving to look for food... Evolution will soon enough remove them from the gene pool.
RR
lolzz bro!~
that last part just about made me spit my coke out all over the place!~
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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splifner180
Student


Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1,288
Loc: USA, East Coast
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Roadkill]
#5878032 - 07/19/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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RogerRabbit writes: "Finding a vermiculite replacement should be a high priority for those who do pf type cakes. It's a fact of life that verm is getting harder and harder to find, so let's cut the bullshit about some mine in Montana. In my area, the nurseries, lowes, and home depot do NOT carry it in stock and they will NOT order it when asked. Those who would flame people for looking for a replacement remind me of those would wait until they're already starving to look for food. . .Evolution will soon enough remove them from the gene pool."
I feel dirty even using this word but it fits; pwned.
splif
-------------------- First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.
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Yamidude
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/06
Posts: 957
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: splifner180]
#5878065 - 07/19/06 02:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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RR you make a valid point.
As soon as i can no longer find 4,657 results on Froogle i will take the hunt for a substitue much more serious.. 
I dont even have a need for it any longer anyways. Grains oWn PF.
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Yamidude]
#5878131 - 07/19/06 02:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yamidude said:
I dont even have a need for it any longer anyways. Grains oWn PF.
what are you gonna use for a casing then?
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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Yamidude
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/06
Posts: 957
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Roadkill]
#5878138 - 07/19/06 02:58 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Roadkill said:
Quote:
Yamidude said:
I dont even have a need for it any longer anyways. Grains oWn PF.
what are you gonna use for a casing then?
oh yeahhhhh, durrrrrrrrrrr 
Well i have two huge ass bags in my grow room right now that I can't see running out of any time in the next 2 or 3 years..
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Roadkill]
#5878239 - 07/19/06 03:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Roadkill said: what are you gonna use for a casing then?
i'm still using this

i posted about it a while back and got a nice collection of nay-sayers telling me it would contam. im on my 6th case with it now that's about to pin. fantastic pinsets every time. 3 contaminate free flushes, every time (with the 5th case of the stuff going for flush #4 right now). it contains no verm. its cheap. its really easy to find. i don't have to buffer it. i don't intend on ever using anything besides it ever again. others' mileage may vary but i got myself a fantastic performing, inexpensive, 0 preparation casing mix and im not looking back. sound familiar? a bunch of naysayers theorizing about something they haven't tried and shooting an idea down point blank? 
starting to feel the same with coir vs. poo... i can get ahold of coir cheaper and easier than poo (again others' situations may vary), it performs, its always consistent, and less effort.
wbs spawned to coir, cased with miracle gro moisture control. not a spec of verm there!
but not to get too far off topic, ill reiterate what i said a few pages back, kudos to anyone who finds a verm substitute for cakes, and i think its a worthy cause for experimentation, and judging from posts of people having difficulty finding it and/or wanting something else, i think there will be many an appreciative pf-teker!
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Cubenisseur
Mad Props


Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 1,392
Loc: Indian Land
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: creamcorn]
#5878960 - 07/19/06 07:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Got pics?
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Cubenisseur]
#5879027 - 07/19/06 08:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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sure
closeup of a pinset on a case:

another small case:
---> 
a current smallish case (8"x8", 2.5" deep), 4 days in FC, pins coming soon:

all miracle gro baby!
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