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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: beatnicknick]
#5865375 - 07/16/06 12:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Vermiculite is safe, it's cheap, and it works excellently.
http://www.vermiculite.com http://www.vermiculite.org
Obviously you haven't even bothered to read anything from either of those websites. And just so you know, kitty litter is a desiccant, it absorbs then evaporates, drying out poop and pee, and it does it very efficiently.
If you're so worried, just wear a face mask or a respirator. All paranoid drug manufacturers are convinced that everyone is lying to them and only out there to cause harm. Vermiculite is safe, and every bag is tested for asbestos now.
Obviously it's up to you, but if you want to actually have a great deal of success, I'd stick to the teks. If you don't mind wasting time and money, then go ahead and experiment.
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beatnicknick
The Innovator


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 1,074
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: liamtheloser]
#5865389 - 07/16/06 12:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
liamtheloser said: Vermiculite is safe, it's cheap, and it works excellently.
http://www.vermiculite.com http://www.vermiculite.org
Obviously you haven't even bothered to read anything from either of those websites. And just so you know, kitty litter is a desiccant, it absorbs then evaporates, drying out poop and pee, and it does it very efficiently.
If you're so worried, just wear a face mask or a respirator. All paranoid drug manufacturers are convinced that everyone is lying to them and only out there to cause harm. Vermiculite is safe, and every bag is tested for asbestos now.
Obviously it's up to you, but if you want to actually have a great deal of success, I'd stick to the teks. If you don't mind wasting time and money, then go ahead and experiment.
Eh-em using time and money. I like experimenting. It'll only cost me about 10 bucks. Time wont be wasted, I'll just buy 12 more jars. Okay so like 18 bucks. Big Whoop. A good vermiculite substitute, I think everyone can agree, would be beneficial.
I'm guessing your the vermiculite employee btw.
Hahahahah only playing of course. 
EDIT: I think this would work. It's got every vermiculite has, it's airy, holds lots of water for the mycelium, and can be cut made exactly like vermiculite, PLUS its cheaper. Take a paper towel and tear it to little shreds. Roll these shreds up. Let soak in water for 24 hours to get rid of preservative chemicals, like you do with WBS and other grains. Dry out, maybe microwave. Then take your PTBs (paper towel balls) and mix them with your BRF and add your water, same ratios as normal cakes.
I can't see this not working, at all.
Also, natural sea sponges might work too, I've heard the manufactured color died ones have something that wont let spores germinate of something like that. I keep having more ideas. I'll experiment with all of them while I grow a normal verm grow. I WILL find a replacement, and then from then on I'll use that replacement, I'll make a Tek, and never have to use verm again. I'll also have plenty of shrooms from those verm spawned with straw cakes as well. All will be good. I am happy. Wish me luck. I'm staying off the shroomery after tonight for a good while, I must have spent 30 hours on here the last couple of days.
-------------------- I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.
Edited by beatnicknick (07/16/06 12:51 PM)
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: beatnicknick]
#5865467 - 07/16/06 12:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Actually, I make dentures :P Vermiculite employees are trashy inbred miners that live in caves and beat children... I don't even think they know what computers are.
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beatnicknick
The Innovator


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 1,074
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: liamtheloser]
#5865481 - 07/16/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Exactly what a covert vermiculite sales promoter would say...
-------------------- I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: beatnicknick]
#5865490 - 07/16/06 12:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
my uncle i just got off the phone with says hes had better success with kitty litter and that I should watch out on these boards anyway because it could be vermiculite companies out to make money telling me theres no substitutes, whether its bad for you or not

yeah and I own stock in All American Pressure Cookers too!~
maybe you should just listen to your Uncle...
he sounds like he way smarter than the rest of us.
tc
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 3 years, 13 days
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Roadkill]
#5865569 - 07/16/06 01:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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LMAO
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick 
After you find a verm. sub , could you find one for the water . All those microbes and things scare me .
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness HC Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.............. I LUV My Greenhouse http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848 My First Pans http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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kristen
Burn out..don't fade away

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 303
Last seen: 9 years, 25 days
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: HippieChick]
#5865606 - 07/16/06 01:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Starting 5 threads over something like this makes you sound about as sharp as a brick. If there was a good alternative, don't you think we'd all be using it?
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: kristen]
#5865636 - 07/16/06 01:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Enough with the dissing. Even though I'm over HC's comment.
Finding a verm substitute is an admirable goal. Especially if he's willing to do the experimentation required.
The least we can do is help him out with some ideas.
-FF
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: beatnicknick]
#5865933 - 07/16/06 03:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I guess common sense isn't so common anymore.
Edit: FastFred, I just wanted to add that coming up with new ideas is great, but it's his reasoning that bothers me. He still believes that verm is harmful, despite what everyone is telling him. Why fix what ain't broke?
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Quick WBS Prep
Edited by FooMan (07/16/06 03:44 PM)
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: fastfred] 1
#5865935 - 07/16/06 03:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i think its a good idea too. whats with everyone being so stuck on verm anyway? its not written in stone we have to use it and never try anything else... how is everyone so sure none of these other things will work if they haven't been tried? we could even stumble onto an alternative that colonizes better, or perhaps one with the same properties as verm yet is also nutritous, boosting the amount of "food" in a cake. there's regularly posts from people who have a hard time finding it, so just because its cheap and convenient for some doesn't mean that's the case for all. he's looking for ideas to experiment with, not people telling him not to bother even trying, so either post some ideas or find some other threads to post your pro vermiculite propaganda in! 
kudos and good luck.
and another idea for your list, perhaps some shredded pieces of sponge.
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: creamcorn]
#5865966 - 07/16/06 03:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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An alternative to verm in a PF jar would be coir. As far as a casing goes, he wouldn't want a nutritious alternative.
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Quick WBS Prep
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: FooMan]
#5865978 - 07/16/06 03:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
FooManShroom said: An alternative to verm in a PF jar would be coir. As far as a casing goes, he wouldn't want a nutritious alternative.
Agreed
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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No_Life_G33k
Now with 10%less noobness


Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 356
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: beatnicknick]
#5866159 - 07/16/06 04:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
beatnicknick said: Oh well my fear mostly came not just from everyone at every store I've gone telling me not to get it because it was deemed carcinogenic three years ago, and even some said that it is only sold by stores that don't give a shit and are only helping the greedy vermiculite companies out while harming customers, but on the actual back of a package it read DO NOT eat, put in mouth, ...
maybe you should find stores with smarter employees.
Why try to replace something that is safe, cheap and effective??
You're trying to reinvent the wheel.
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 3 years, 13 days
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: creamcorn]
#5867461 - 07/16/06 09:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
creamcorn said: how is everyone so sure none of these other things will work if they haven't been tried?
I don't need to jump off the top of a skyscraper with nothing but an umbrella to know it's not a good idea and won't work,lol. 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness HC Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.............. I LUV My Greenhouse http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848 My First Pans http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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faceyneck
Legitimate Philosopher


Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 2,421
Loc: upper body area
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: HippieChick]
#5867524 - 07/16/06 09:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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beatnicknick might just be incredibly paranoid, but his paranoia might lend some insight... at least into what one shouldn't do in mycology, and maybe something more positive, like a good verm subsitute, even though I thought they already exist.
I thought you can use rockwool.
-------------------- Anything posted here, is total bullshit. My Meyers-Briggs Personality: INTJ New growers, or anyone else just needing help; I'm always glad to help right here.
We give cultivation advice here. AMU Q & A - We're glad to help My Doggy Door Greenhouse! First Ever Shmuvbox Tek! Do Manure Right!
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faceyneck
Legitimate Philosopher


Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 2,421
Loc: upper body area
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: liamtheloser]
#5867545 - 07/16/06 09:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
liamtheloser said: Actually, I make dentures :P Vermiculite employees are trashy inbred miners that live in caves and beat children... I don't even think they know what computers are.
Oh, c'mon, Liam. Everyone on this sight knows you've been trying to push vermiculite on the masses for decades.
-------------------- Anything posted here, is total bullshit. My Meyers-Briggs Personality: INTJ New growers, or anyone else just needing help; I'm always glad to help right here.
We give cultivation advice here. AMU Q & A - We're glad to help My Doggy Door Greenhouse! First Ever Shmuvbox Tek! Do Manure Right!
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: faceyneck]
#5867670 - 07/16/06 10:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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you're right, you're right... although i'm a firm believer that there is no such thing as a white collar vermiculite peddler, I do happen to eat a lot of vermiculite, and run a small time mining facility out of my ass. But it's local and organic, so you gotta give me some credit.
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Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 1,421
Loc: Wal-Merica
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: liamtheloser]
#5867753 - 07/16/06 10:58 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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#1 problem with the mentality of western science:
its far too proactive, always looking to the next breakthrough or invention instead of perfecting what we already have. instead of solving problems they create alternatives.
fuck that.
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beatnicknick
The Innovator


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 1,074
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Omnicracker]
#5868136 - 07/17/06 02:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thank you to those with supportive posts and showing some maturity and creativity. Lets say vermiculite has no danger at all, all of the owners of these stores were misinformed and the whole thing was just a big mistake. It's still a pain in the ass to get when you're like me and the nearest lowes is 30 miles away, to drive down and then they tell you it doesn't meet the safety standards, so you have to fill out a form on the internet, use a credit card, wait a week or two.
Wouldn't it be nice to grab something at the supermarket you got your brown rice flower or wild bird seed from? It'd certainly encourage a lot of newbies to start, and that's more shrooms for the people.
So is it really so far-fetched to experiment? Sure there's a little sacrifice involved, say $18, but based on how much people are making fun of me, I'm VERY discouraged to experiment, to "reinvent the wheel"
However I'll take this and only use it as a reason to try even harder to get a good working substitute (they're out there, you have to be EXTREMELY close minded to think this is the only way shrooms will grow well with brown rice flower)
I'm really disappointed in this group though, I thought you guys were above this sort of thing, and were the types that rooted for an underdog.
Whatever. You'll see.
-------------------- I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.
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ComfortablyStond
Mr. Lizard


Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 239
Loc: Psychedelphia, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Omnicracker]
#5868146 - 07/17/06 02:12 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think experimenting is great, and for that, I think you should be commended. That being said, experiment because you have a passion for it, or are just curious. Don't believe what some yokels at fuckin' Wal-Mart, or wherever, told you...they work in fuckin' Wal-Mart, for shit's sake. If it's cancer and carcinogens you're worried about, well, you're kinda fucked there. Everything causes cancer!!! A few years ago, they concluded that apples are chock full of carcinogens. Grapes cause cancer now too. Assuming that you live in a house, or at the very least, a structure with a shingled roof, your very dwelling place is covered with carcinogens. Every bundle of shingles has a warning lable that reads, "This product contains chemicals known by the State of California to cause cancer." I assume that if you don't live in California, you're safe, but that's beside the point.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is, if you're really that distressed about carcinogens, I think vermiculite is the absolute LEAST of your worries.
The only "sub-substrate" you mentioned that might work IMO is the shredded cardboard. And I say this only because I know there are species like certain oysters that can be grown successfully using cardboard. By all means, experiment your ass off, and let us know your findings...but stop the paranoia, man!!! There's lots worse things to worry about in this particular hobby than dying 30 years from now of cancer, which statistically, you're prolly gonna do anyway. But hey, that's just my 2 cents.
Peace
-------------------- "It's not a war on drugs. It's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times..." Bill Hicks
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