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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute
    #5864427 - 07/16/06 05:38 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I am doing an experiment my next grow in hopes to find a reasonabe replacement for Vermiculite in BRF/VERM jars. I will keep the ratios the same, 2 parts verm substitute, 1 part BRF, 1 part water, and I will sterilize for an hour in a pot. I will use Tyvek, Polyfil, or whatever I can find to filter my holes.

The Vermiculite substitute will also be chopped up into verm sized pieces.

Now, what do YOU believe will most likely work. Choose four, I will make 2 of each type of the most popular with slightly varying water levels. The last four jars will use vermiculite as comparison (and a savior if none of these work)

-Pumice Pieces
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumice

-Popped, Plain Popcorn Pieces

-Pebbles

-Packing Foam Pieces
http://www.lard.net/packing.html

-Chopped up cardboard

-Thick Clothe Pieces

-Wood Chips

-Cotton Pieces

If you have any that seem reasonable (nonpoisonous, porous, thick pieces, [optional]non-nutritious) Please tell me and I'll possibly add them.


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I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.


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OfflineCubenisseur
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: beatnicknick]
    #5864489 - 07/16/06 06:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think any veterans are going to accept any of those...

IME- The cardboard, cotton, wood chips, cloth, and peanuts are definetly out as they will not act/react at all like vermiculite...


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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Cubenisseur]
    #5864494 - 07/16/06 06:45 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I don't understand what wouldn't work with cardboard- it's open and air so mycelium will have room to move through, and that's why you use vermiculite in the first place. It will also keep in a lot of hydration.

I think I will still try one thing of cardboard with something that will retain a lot of moisture, like perlite of clothe.

Clothe I could see being out because it may not be so airy and difficult to have to cut up every time you make a new batch of jars. So maybe cardboard with bits of paper towel for better hydration? Possibly perlite and cardboard?

I'm thinking, and I'm doing lots of research, and I can use all the help you guys can give me. Any input, any at all, will be much appreciated... And I'll be sure to thank you when the "vermiculite free PF Tek" Comes out  :wink:


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I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.


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OfflineCubenisseur
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: beatnicknick]
    #5864504 - 07/16/06 06:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Here are a couple related quotes from posts on the main page.

Quote:

there really is no substitute for vermiculite, I've recently found it a Lowes
you can also purchase it online, a couple of our vendors carry it and most hydro shops as well




Quote:



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

beatnicknick said:
Just wondering if what I have heard was a bunch of bullshit


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



That would be a good assessment of using popcorn to replace vermiculite.
RR




One is from your other Verm replacement popcorn thread where RR also said,
Quote:

Somebody should try scooping up some very small gravel from a stream bed or something and trying that. I've also seen some pretty course beach sand around fresh water lakes. If vermiculite goes away, it would be nice to have a few ideas in mind.
RR





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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Cubenisseur]
    #5864531 - 07/16/06 07:17 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Reply to quote 1: I'm not looking for vermiculite, I have plenty. I'm looking an alternative that I don't have to take any precautions for. If nothing works, I will settle with it, but for the next few grows I'll be looking for an alternative.

Reply to quote 2: Are you saying I should definitley not try popped popcorn? I think one jar wouldn't hurt, and the only reason I could see it not working is because of its not all that airy. But still, it'll pretty fluffy and airy, and can be used as more nutrition.

Reply to quote 3: Definitly going to try, especially if it came out of RR's mouth (or fingers) I have a stream with consistently small circular pebbles right in the yard.  :thumbup:


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I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.


Edited by beatnicknick (07/16/06 07:20 AM)


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OfflineCubenisseur
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: beatnicknick]
    #5864536 - 07/16/06 07:19 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It sure can't hurt to try...if your willing.


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Offlineimtank
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Cubenisseur]
    #5864584 - 07/16/06 07:53 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

im not sure any of those will work, i dont think any of those will hold moisture as well as verm...plus verm keeps the substrate from compacting...the only thing i could think of was perlite...but i heard that doesnt work well either


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'To be positive at all times is to ignore all that is important, sacred or valuable. To be negative at all times is to be threatened by ridiculousness and instant discredibility.'
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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: imtank]
    #5864663 - 07/16/06 08:41 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Well mushrooms don't grow on vermiculite in the wild, it's not like its the only possibility.


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I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.


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Invisibleesdfsfd
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: beatnicknick]
    #5864706 - 07/16/06 09:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i saw someone on here used dirt and it actually worked


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OfflineYamidude
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: esdfsfd] * 1
    #5864707 - 07/16/06 09:03 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

dude your obsessed with the carcinogen hooha... just use vermiculite. It's not going to kill you..


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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Yamidude]
    #5864757 - 07/16/06 09:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Yamidude said:
dude your obsessed with the carcinogen hooha... just use vermiculite. It's not going to kill you..




But don't you think I'd be doing everyone a favor if I found a nice alternative? One maybe not so hard to find?

Anyway I think I'm just going to mix my verm and put it in my cakes outside, that was my original plan, but then I realised I wanted to dunk and roll and I figured I'd be working with verm too much and it'd be a pain in the ass to be all uppity about not breathing it in and keeping it away from animals and people...

But then I read up on straw and I realised that I could get a large amount, I wouldn't have to case, I wouldn't have to dunk and roll, so I'd only have to use verm once every grow, so I guess I'll just conform to the system and get some more verm at lowes.

If I'm wrong about this tell me, if not, the experiment is shut down.


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I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.


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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: beatnicknick]
    #5864778 - 07/16/06 09:36 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Your not going to find a cheaper alternative than Verm!~


and you do sound like your obsessed with there being a problem with Vermiculite!~

There is nothing wrong with the Vermiculite that is sold today!~

Period!~

The EPA monitors all the Vermiculite mines very closely!~

:sun:


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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Invisibleliamtheloser
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: Roadkill]
    #5865037 - 07/16/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Most of the replacements on your list (if not all) will become a soggy, slimey mess as soon as you put water on them. And pumice will wick moisture away from anything, just like perlite and expanded clay. Edible packing foam actually dissolves entirely in water, cardboard not only will break apart when wet, it also usually contains some form of preservative or fermaldehyde. If you want to experiment with verm replacements, try using water crystals or something else that's not going to become an instant mess!

Anyways, you asked for opinions, there's mine.


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5865143 - 07/16/06 11:33 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

if you switch to bulk growing techniques,
you will be using vermiculte a whole lot less.

only to airate/condition bulk substrate and for casing.
so why don't you just do that?


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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: monstermitch]
    #5865152 - 07/16/06 11:36 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think that's what I'll do, so the only time I have to work with vermiculite will be outside with some gloves, quickly mixing it up in a bowl with BRF, throwing it in the jars, putting it as a filter layer, then foiling the tops up. That's it.

I'm not going to even case my bulk substrates, I'll be going by this straw Tek http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/par/7938


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I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: beatnicknick]
    #5865158 - 07/16/06 11:38 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

don't make cakes.

use grain spawn.
that is kind of the point of what I said.


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Invisibleliamtheloser
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: monstermitch]
    #5865171 - 07/16/06 11:42 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Also, you have nothing to worry about vermiculite... I don't know why you want to work outside and with protection on... It's not carcinogenic... Read up: http://www.vermiculite.org

quote: 'Vermiculite is one of the safest, most unique minerals in the entire world. A hydrated Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, it is lightweight, inorganic (incombustible), compressible, highly absorbent, non-reactive'

i don't know why you have such a boner over vermiculite replacements :P


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Invisibleesdfsfd
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5865199 - 07/16/06 11:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liamtheloser said:
i don't know why you have such a boner over vermiculite replacements :P




i think vermiculite is perfectly safe...the mine with the aesbestos contamination was like 25 years ago and was shut down


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: esdfsfd]
    #5865293 - 07/16/06 12:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Cardboard might work. I think it's great that your trying to find a verm replacement.

Your reasons for trying to find one are wrong though. Verm IS safe, it IS cheap, and it IS easy to find. You'll have a hard time finding something safer, cheaper, or easier to find.

Still it would be nice to have some verm alternatives. Maybe you'll even find something better than verm. Cardboard might be a good one. If you had a crosscut shredder you could easily chop it up into verm sized pieces. The myc could also digest the cardboard for additional fuel, so it might have some benefits.


Verm can be dusty sometimes, and breathing any type of dust is not healthy and will shorten your lifespan. Wood dust is actually fairly carcinogenic, and it's probably a lot more dangerous than verm dust. So I would be careful trying to find a replacement, it might actually end up being a lot more dangerous.


-FF


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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: Poll- Best Vermiculite Substitute [Re: fastfred] * 1
    #5865327 - 07/16/06 12:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Oh well my fear mostly came not just from everyone at every store I've gone telling me not to get it because it was deemed carcinogenic three years ago, and even some said that it is only sold by stores that don't give a shit and are only helping the greedy vermiculite companies out while harming customers, but on the actual back of a package it read DO NOT eat, put in mouth, or breath near vermiculite, and always wash your hands immediatley after dealing with it.

I think cardboard, small pebbles, and maybe popped popcorn will work, and I know the right type of kitty litter would (my uncle i just got off the phone with says hes had better success with kitty litter and that I should watch out on these boards anyway because it could be vermiculite companies out to make money telling me theres no substitutes, whether its bad for you or not) i forgot the name he gave me i'll have to call him back and let you all know.

EDIT: not accusing you all of working for vermiculite companies btw, my uncle just has the mind of a business man so he knows how they work in this day and age, and if you search for vermiculite substitute on google, one of the top results is theshroomery so its not like they couldn't have found this place


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I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.


Edited by beatnicknick (07/16/06 12:21 PM)


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