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OfflinemMmMmmuShRooM
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Mycelium just stopped growing...
    #5864146 - 07/16/06 02:47 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I have pf jars incubating in the closet right now. They have need incubating for 18 days now. I prepared the substrate to spec. The temperature is in the mid-70s. I check on the suckers everyday and for the last 4 or 5 days I haven't seen any sign of mycelium growth. I'm starting to worry and I didn't know what to do so I thought I would post an S.O.S. and see if you guys could help. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.


--------------------
Citizens guide to surviving a police encounter
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: mMmMmmuShRooM]
    #5864155 - 07/16/06 02:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

whats your gas exchange situation? (i.e., the holes?) if you got them taped, pull that tape off. they need to breathe a little.

other than that another common cause for it to stall is a bacterial infection. any wierd smells?


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OfflinemMmMmmuShRooM
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: creamcorn]
    #5864161 - 07/16/06 02:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

No smells and no funny colors. As for the gas exchange. Well, I have one layer of aluminum foil that I poked with the needle to inoculate. Then I put another layer of aluminum foil on top of that and wrapped a rubber band around it. Should I loosen the rubber band and the outer layer of aluminum foil. I mean should I just keep the outer layer loose.


--------------------
Citizens guide to surviving a police encounter
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal


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Invisibletoole
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: mMmMmmuShRooM]
    #5864178 - 07/16/06 03:01 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Wow, one sex:

"The temperature is in the mid-70s"

Fix that !


--------------------
-the adventures of suse and prescott.9-

..and the neverending triscut of doom !


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Invisibletoole
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: toole]
    #5864183 - 07/16/06 03:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Also, there are many things that can slow down growth, incredibly-

I've had jars go dormant for so long, eventually most come around. And they are always kept in optimal environment.

Sometimes things just shift, the speed of growth that is.

Did you use a multi-spore syringe? They tend to be unreliable sometimes for proper spore placement.


--------------------
-the adventures of suse and prescott.9-

..and the neverending triscut of doom !


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OfflinemMmMmmuShRooM
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: toole]
    #5864195 - 07/16/06 03:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Now I have heard two different schools of thought on this one. I know the ideal temperature for mycelium growth is between 84-86 degrees. However, I have also read that the temperature inside the jars is about 10 degrees higher then the outside temperature. This is my first grow so I haven't been able to disprove one or the other, but I thought it would be better for the mycelium to be a little cool then to risk pushing 90 degrees and kill it. I'm gonna take your advice though and bump it up a bit. What about the gas exchange. Should I loosen the top layer of aluminum foil. I'm just scared of contamination. Thanks for your help.


--------------------
Citizens guide to surviving a police encounter
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal


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OfflinemMmMmmuShRooM
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: toole]
    #5864201 - 07/16/06 03:11 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yes I used multispore solution. I got them from sporestore.com.


--------------------
Citizens guide to surviving a police encounter
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: mMmMmmuShRooM]
    #5864213 - 07/16/06 03:19 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

maybe not enough water in the jars? ive pulled out poplar jars that were 70% done, washed with water well that fruited.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Edited by makaveli8x8 (07/16/06 03:20 AM)


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OfflinemMmMmmuShRooM
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #5864222 - 07/16/06 03:25 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Could you explain that a little more. Do you mean I should dunk the cake or just add water to the jar?


--------------------
Citizens guide to surviving a police encounter
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: mMmMmmuShRooM]
    #5864240 - 07/16/06 03:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

if you sterilize a syringe and fill with boiling water(read teks) let cool, you should be able to inject a small amount of water to your (dry) substrate...and you should be able to tell within a week if that was the prob....if it wasn't read below:

if you jars are "mostly" colinized...in otherwords you see strong growth
over 70-80%.....and it looks like you could birth it and it wouldn't fall apart exept for the part that didn't colinize(which should be like a corner or like the bottom 10-20% of your jar then:

birth it and run water over your cake....gently rub off your uncolinized substrate then do as normal.

i infact have rinised a cake before, that had uncolinized substarate that was sticking to it...i said ok ill just leave it...put it in fruiting chamber...and it colinized within a day or 2 <--fastest growth ive ever seen it loves air.

but on the other hand i have had one that i tried this with that got cobweb...so you do take a chance doing all this....but sometimes you have no choice or tired of waiting for your edibles.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Edited by makaveli8x8 (07/16/06 03:41 AM)


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Invisibletoole
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #5864271 - 07/16/06 03:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, what are you using for lids?

Your foil should have been removed right after they were cooled. Jar > Coffee filter/tyvek filter > rubberband > aluminum > rubberband(optional) ; then Pressure Cook / Pasteurize with a Pot > despressurize / cool, remove foil (and do not put it back on)-

then follow your regular deal.

I keep my jars at 80-82 F this takes everything into account, they do great.

Oh and fyi you really shouldn't ever choose to take a cake out before it's Fully colonized. This is a major risk for contamination.

And a little patience won't hurt, the cake will probably start up again soon- if you notice a major declination in growth, turn them upside down and turn the lid 1/4, that isn't suggested by many but some tend to and say it's complentary.

gl


--------------------
-the adventures of suse and prescott.9-

..and the neverending triscut of doom !


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: toole]
    #5864291 - 07/16/06 04:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

as long as you remove all the nutrient containing substrate i don't see how its a major problem for contam. ive see cakes that when i washed the substrate off chunks keep breaking off and it wasn't colinized on the inside...so as i washed it kept falling apart....so i just got off alli could but little peices were still exposed...but days later it was covered with good white stuff.

like they say, if its white its pretty resistent to contaim...thought i heard that anyways....


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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Invisibletoole
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #5864336 - 07/16/06 04:32 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

If it's fully white it's pretty resistant.

You can birth them early, I'm just saying in experiences (not just mine, many others) birthing early is usually not recommended, do what you have to do.

I like to wait either way. I hate messing with uncolonised WBS.


--------------------
-the adventures of suse and prescott.9-

..and the neverending triscut of doom !


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Offlineroyer
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: toole]
    #5864362 - 07/16/06 04:52 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

when i cover i use to use the canning lids with poly fill andmicro tape and they would colonize slow now i do the same . i put tin foil poke to innoc then put a second layer/tin foil and they do great. i had one like yours too it was just a slower colonizer.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: royer]
    #5864389 - 07/16/06 05:10 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

wow you guys are all over the map... he said pf jars. :smile:

yes lose the rubber band and leave the top layer of foil loose so it can breathe.

your temps are fine.  they aren't optimal for fastest growth, but they aren't the problem.  its true that temps inside the jar are slightly higher, but not by 10 degrees.  in a half pint pf jar the heat produced by the mycelium is negligble, probably less than 1 degree.

moisture is probably not a problem.  don't fool around with injecting water or anything just yet, it probably won't help, and it will increase the risk of introducing a contaminate.  try loosening up the foil for some gas exchange and give it a few more days and see if that helps before you go messing with other things.


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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: mMmMmmuShRooM]
    #5864860 - 07/16/06 09:59 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

the inside of the jars are only a few degrees warmer...not 10 degrees!~

increase your incubator temp to 81 degrees F.

I use 81 degrees F. in all my incubators...and my jars colonize very fast.



take the alum foil and rubber bands off the top of the jars if you used the dry verm barrier...

sounds like they stalled due to lack of gas exchange.


tc


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


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PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: mMmMmmuShRooM]
    #5864976 - 07/16/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mMmMmmuShRooM said:
I have also read that the temperature inside the jars is about 10 degrees higher then the outside temperature.



Wow where did you read that? As creamcorn said it is negligible, a incubation chamber filled with many jars will raise the temps only a couple of degrees.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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OfflinemMmMmmuShRooM
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: hyphae]
    #5865333 - 07/16/06 12:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Okay guys. Thanks for all your help. I think it probably is a gas exchange issue and I'm going to lose the rubber band and loosen the top layer of foil so they can breath. If that doesn't help I'll be back. Thanks again.


--------------------
Citizens guide to surviving a police encounter
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: hyphae]
    #5865400 - 07/16/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I wouldn't say it's negligible. It's about 5 degrees IME. It's also hotter in the center than the outsides obviously.

80-82F in the incubator is optimal for getting 85F in the jars IME.


-FF


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OfflinemMmMmmuShRooM
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: hyphae]
    #5865413 - 07/16/06 12:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hey hyphae I hope you don't mind, but I mooched your link for the oyster shell flour. I can't find that stuff at any of my local department stores.


--------------------
Citizens guide to surviving a police encounter
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: mMmMmmuShRooM]
    #5865753 - 07/16/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mMmMmmuShRooM said:
Hey hyphae I hope you don't mind, but I mooched your link for the oyster shell flour. I can't find that stuff at any of my local department stores.



No problem just make sure you place an order of $20 or more as it seems they charge a small order fee and minimum shipping as well.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: fastfred]
    #5865757 - 07/16/06 02:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
I wouldn't say it's negligible. It's about 5 degrees IME. It's also hotter in the center than the outsides obviously.

80-82F in the incubator is optimal for getting 85F in the jars IME.


-FF



The center of the jar is in no way 5 degrees higher than the outside never ever. Check it out yourself with a dial probe thermometer.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: hyphae]
    #5865795 - 07/16/06 02:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I didn't mean that the center is 5+ what the outside is. I meant the center is around 5F above what the air temp in the incubator is. The center is probably only a degree or two above what the outside is. That's with rye jars, so PF jars probably don't run quite that much warmer. But they are a couple degrees warmer than air temp.

It's enough that you probably want to account for it when setting your incubator temp.


-FF


--------------------
It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: fastfred]
    #5865806 - 07/16/06 02:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
I didn't mean that the center is 5+ what the outside is. I meant the center is around 5F above what the air temp in the incubator is. The center is probably only a degree or two above what the outside is. That's with rye jars, so PF jars probably don't run quite that much warmer. But they are a couple degrees warmer than air temp.

It's enough that you probably want to account for it when setting your incubator temp.


-FF



For sure especially if it's anywhere near full! A few jars I certainly wouldn't worry at all about it though. I myself have always compensated 2 degrees not that it really matters but it's protocol here.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Invisibleliamtheloser
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: fastfred]
    #5865813 - 07/16/06 02:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i did a temp probe on a colonizing pf jar, the verm must act like an insulator, because the inside was actually around 5 degrees warmer than my incubator... *shrug*


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5865831 - 07/16/06 03:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liamtheloser said:
i did a temp probe on a colonizing pf jar, the verm must act like an insulator, because the inside was actually around 5 degrees warmer than my incubator... *shrug*



Controlled experiment I'm sure right? I've also done this (years ago) with much different results. :blush:


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Invisibleliamtheloser
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: hyphae]
    #5865848 - 07/16/06 03:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

*shrug* i just did it on one jar, so obviously results could vary, but as far as making any mistakes, it's rather simple... meat thermometer into the middle of the jar, and the same thermometer laying right next to the jar... just about 5 degrees difference. could also be because i don't use a TiT, i use my own design of incubator. whatever the reason, the fact was, the jar was warmer in the middle than it was on the outside... just like a human body.


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InvisibleLibertycapper
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: hyphae]
    #5865859 - 07/16/06 03:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

pet foodf store has crushed oyster shell


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5865917 - 07/16/06 03:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liamtheloser said:
*shrug* i just did it on one jar, so obviously results could vary, but as far as making any mistakes, it's rather simple... meat thermometer into the middle of the jar, and the same thermometer laying right next to the jar... just about 5 degrees difference. could also be because i don't use a TiT, i use my own design of incubator. whatever the reason, the fact was, the jar was warmer in the middle than it was on the outside... just like a human body.



I have also found jars to warmer in the middle than on the outsides.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Mycelium just stopped growing... [Re: Libertycapper]
    #5865925 - 07/16/06 03:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Libertycapper said:
pet foodf store has crushed oyster shell



You want powerized or floured oyster shell as crushed oyster shell has no buffering ability at all. Even oyster shell flour is not as effective at buffering as chalk or limestone flour because it isn't water soluble.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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