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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: Panoramix]
#5873948 - 07/18/06 03:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Panoramix said: Say, I quite like that idea of reality, Fospher. But it quantifies things that, in my rather insignificant opinion, oughtn't be quantified. But hey, if you find merit in attaching a numerical value to altruism, then more power to you. Drains some of the magic from it, to my mind. But I like the whole 'reality is more clearly percieved by those more open to it's positive nature' idea.
I see reality as quantifiable because reality is an absolute. If something is real, then it exists, and existence is an absolute - you either do or you don't. So with something that is in black and white, I deal in the same terms as they are dealt. Metaphysical reality, however, is something beyond definitions, and the ones you do set up only serve as barriers to your existence. With most people choose to be bound their own shackles of their metaphysical beliefs, and on the contrary, attempt to fake reality and escape something by a mere wish.
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Here's another; reality (as we are capable of percieving it) is the dried wax accumulated around the bottom of the candle of possible experience. It fled from the intensity flame of pure being as far as it could before it's distance from the heat of that all-encompassing fire caused it to solidify, becoming rigid and fixed and limited. These limits and borders and distinctions we experience in this life are a direct result of our distance from pure, unified being. They don't exist when one is One, just as the laws of physics don't exist inside a singularity.
Nice analogy. When you get past the Event Horizon of a black hole, time dialates the same as when you get drowned in the complete experience of reality.
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capliberty
Stranger


Registered: 04/23/06
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: Fospher]
#5874008 - 07/18/06 03:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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--I am convinced that we are convinced of nothing--
not a complete contradiction, for he made a personal assertion about
the assertions of everyone about everything,
If he said I am convinced that I'm not convinced, this is an uttered contradiction
---If a car is red, it cannot be black, and if it black is no longer red. It cannot be red and black at the exact same time.----
unless you define red and black as being the same color,
it can't be the actual concept behind the definiton that is referenced to the word "black" along with the concept behind the definiton that is referenced to the word "red" at the sametime,
unless its white, because white is the combination of all colors
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blackdragon999
Mason

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: Fospher]
#5876199 - 07/19/06 12:41 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Fospher said:
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blackdragon999 said: *I am convinced that we are convinced of nothing.
Then you are uttering a contradiction.
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*I believe that this forum, these words and this ciggarrete in my mouth are all here because I simply wish them to be. however I'm wishing without the choice to choose.
So reality is commanded by your mere wish, and yet you can't control it? Your second sentence contradicts the first, yet again. You either command something, or you don't - you can't command under the rule of the subordinate. But if the first sentence were true, maybe next time you get a pack of smokes, instead of paying for them, you could instead manipulate reality?
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*I believe you can define nothing, because you cannot define a definition or where it came from.
While the metaphysical cannot be defined, the macroscopic physical reality is black and white. If a car is red, it cannot be black, and if it black is no longer red. It cannot be red and black at the exact same time.
I'm not "uttering". What is the essence of being "convinced"? The dictionary says: having a strong belief or conviction. I am very capable of having a strong belief or conviction about a strong belief or conviction.
"So reality is commanded by your mere wish, and yet you can't control it?"
what did I say I couldn't control?... control is a belief anyway. You can't even control your brain or make choices. Desires are programed desires. People see what they want to see. I never said anything about "reality". There is no absolute reality. Just because I say I "wish" something dosn't mean I speak it into being... I'm not jesus or budda.
"While the metaphysical cannot be defined, the macroscopic physical reality is black and white. If a car is red, it cannot be black, and if it black is no longer red. It cannot be red and black at the exact same time."
I dissagree completley, read my post "Properties of Identity" Reality is a joke, you can't define it...sorry.
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: blackdragon999]
#5876259 - 07/19/06 01:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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blackdragon999 said: I'm not "uttering". What is the essence of being "convinced"? The dictionary says: having a strong belief or conviction. I am very capable of having a strong belief or conviction about a strong belief or conviction.
If you are convinced we are sure of nothing, then that itself is an absolute, and if they don't exist, then neither does the logic of your sentence. 
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what did I say I couldn't control?... control is a belief anyway. You can't even control your brain or make choices.
If someone went out and murdered another, or molested a child, can we not hold them responsible for their actions? What about an individual that's worked hard for decades to succeed, should the fruit the work bears on the same level as someone living all their life in leisure? Reality is black and white - and it is based on the choices that you yourself discern. As much as you try to wish it to be so, you cannot fake reality, as reality cannot be faked.
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Just because I say I "wish" something dosn't mean I speak it into being... I'm not jesus or budda.
...Yet another contradiction:
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*I believe that this forum, these words and this ciggarrete in my mouth are all here because I simply wish them to be.
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I dissagree completley...
Then feel free to retort to any of the statements that I've made.
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: capliberty]
#5876264 - 07/19/06 01:18 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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capliberty said: ---If a car is red, it cannot be black, and if it black is no longer red. It cannot be red and black at the exact same time.----
unless you define red and black as being the same color,
Humour me - please try to define black and red as the same color while keeping in mind that black and red are two different colors.
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blackdragon999
Mason

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: JCoke]
#5876287 - 07/19/06 01:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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JCoke said:
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blackdragon999 said: where is god now? he never came back to repair what has broken.
that's where Jesus comes into the picture ( or should I say reality?).
Indeed Jesus is a reality... but not to me, as I am not even reality.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: PowerTrip]
#5876313 - 07/19/06 01:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Epistemology should precede metaphysics. If we don’t know what we can know, how can we know about the nature of reality?
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blackdragon999
Mason

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: Fospher]
#5876321 - 07/19/06 01:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Fospher said:
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blackdragon999 said: I'm not "uttering". What is the essence of being "convinced"? The dictionary says: having a strong belief or conviction. I am very capable of having a strong belief or conviction about a strong belief or conviction.
If you are convinced we are sure of nothing, then that itself is an absolute, and if they don't exist, then neither does the logic of your sentence. 
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what did I say I couldn't control?... control is a belief anyway. You can't even control your brain or make choices.
If someone went out and murdered another, or molested a child, can we not hold them responsible for their actions? What about an individual that's worked hard for decades to succeed, should the fruit the work bears on the same level as someone living all their life in leisure? Reality is black and white - and it is based on the choices that you yourself discern. As much as you try to wish it to be so, you cannot fake reality, as reality cannot be faked.
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Just because I say I "wish" something dosn't mean I speak it into being... I'm not jesus or budda.
...Yet another contradiction:
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*I believe that this forum, these words and this ciggarrete in my mouth are all here because I simply wish them to be.
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I dissagree completley...
Then feel free to retort to any of the statements that I've made.
What is logic? It has no given value. Being convinced dosn't mean you are absolute, and there are dimentions to everything.
"If someone went out and murdered another, or molested a child, can we not hold them responsible for their actions? What about an individual that's worked hard for decades to succeed, should the fruit the work bears on the same level as someone living all their life in leisure? Reality is black and white - and it is based on the choices that you yourself discern. As much as you try to wish it to be so, you cannot fake reality, as reality cannot be faked."
You seem to look for simple answers... I have none for you. The world is more than black and white (sorry to dissapoint you). I can fake reality... I venture that I could make you think that I am angry when I'm really not, therefore altering your vision of the real world. what is it that you do for a living? Math? Science? Art? Those things that you know about your live mean nothing... what life knows about you is everything. You use this word "contradict" so freely. I find that people that use that word often are looking for black and white answers. I am polydimensional...therefore I accept that this could all be a dream...I am often refered to as "ridiculus" because I don't take things as they are, I admit that. What is the motive for murder? Where did that motive come from? If it came from a alternate source is it really "belonging" to that person. I would say you would in a court of law and all that b.s. have to treat him like everyone else and convict him. Not meaning that he chose to do it. He only thinks he chose.
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blackdragon999
Mason

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5876325 - 07/19/06 01:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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MushmanTheManic said: Epistemology should precede metaphysics. If we don’t know what we can know, how can we know about the nature of reality?
logicaly we can't... or can we? you make the choice for yourself my friend. We think you believe by choice, but we believe by instinct.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: PowerTrip]
#5876353 - 07/19/06 02:15 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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blackdragon999
Mason

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5876364 - 07/19/06 02:23 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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lol... nice, what are you refering to?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: blackdragon999]
#5876479 - 07/19/06 03:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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blackdragon999 said: where is god now? he never came back to repair what has broken.
this is the consumer approach to creation (do you get what you pay for or not?)
shall we return the headless classical sculpture to the ancient greeks and romans? or maybe I like them like that; reminds me how rough soccer fans can get.
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PenCapBlue
Mmmmbop

Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 26
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: redgreenvines]
#5876585 - 07/19/06 04:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Life is life, and eventually we die, or so they say. I haven't experienced it (in this lifetime?) yet.
I (we?) influence reality in some ways that I understand and some ways I don't.
Delusion is eaten for breakfast, and only few realize it.
Communication (as I know it) is like pushing an apple through a quarter sized hole. All thought it lost, and it's slow. (But that's where art comes from?)
Everything in moderation.
And... Everything = nothing.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: PowerTrip]
#5877811 - 07/19/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I did read all the answers only half ways.
Reality for us is just like a 'stage'. Physical reality can grasp only a part of the whole. What makes something 'real' for someone ? The truth lies behind reality, in its mysterious spirituality.
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: blackdragon999]
#5879376 - 07/19/06 09:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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blackdragon999 said: What is logic?
Logic is the principle that governs reality.
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It has no given value. Being convinced dosn't mean you are absolute, and there are dimentions to everything.
You either are convinced or you are not. One or the other. It's a boolean - you have two choices, there's no grey areas. If you are later confronted with a more convincing argument, you may change your position. But in either case, you agree or you don't. With your premises, you would also agree with me, wouldn't you, as disagreement would be an absolute? Yet another tangle in your web of contradictions.
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You seem to look for simple answers... I have none for you. The world is more than black and white (sorry to dissapoint you).
It's true, I am quite disappointed that you don't seem to have any answers. Simple or sophisticated ones for that matter. 
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I can fake reality... I venture that I could make you think that I am angry when I'm really not, therefore altering your vision of the real world.
If you were acting out being mad, then I would perceive you acting out being mad, and still maintain 100% absorbtion of reality. If you later on told me that you were just acting it out, I would change my opinion in retrospect.
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what is it that you do for a living? Math? Science? Art? Those things that you know about your live mean nothing...
I am a professional spelling czar, actually - and you my boy misspell every other word. And that is an absolute. 
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what life knows about you is everything.
What ... the fuck ...? 
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You use this word "contradict" so freely. I find that people that use that word often are looking for black and white answers. I am polydimensional...therefore I accept that this could all be a dream...I am often refered to as "ridiculus" because I don't take things as they are, I admit that.
Dear "ridiculus" (might want to look that word up in the dictionary btw),
if you admit something, and not admit another, that makes for quite a black and white existence.
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What is the motive for murder? Where did that motive come from? If it came from a alternate source is it really "belonging" to that person.
We are all influenced, but it is our free will that gives us choice to govern our own actions. Decide do, or do not, have morals or live in delusion of elastic morality, which does not exist. Non-responsibility for your own actions, and the elusion of the facts of reality are futile will only lead you to your own demise.
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David_vs_Goliath
Informer


Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 208
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 14 years, 18 days
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: Fospher]
#5879433 - 07/19/06 10:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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quit the whinning, this was getting pretty interesting.
I just thought of something crazy We are all entities in the universe and we are put on Earth because we did something bad, like a prison. The Universe is infinite and we are part of the infinity.
-------------------- "People living deeply have no fear of death." "Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love." "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
#5879501 - 07/19/06 10:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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David_vs_Goliath said: quit the whinning, this was getting pretty interesting.
Uhm, whining, you mean? About what?
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Describe a version of reality. (Creativity encouraged.) [Re: blackdragon999]
#5880025 - 07/20/06 12:55 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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blackdragon999 said: lol... nice, what are you refering to?
Nothing in perticular. I thought that video would go well with this topic. "Wooooooooooow"
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