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bi0 said:
I am a resident of Chicago.
As for organized crime being involved with the city government, I have not heard of anything that substantial. This isn't the Capone-era. All governments are corrupt, but I dont see the organized crime influence here.

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rod said:
Fuck the Targets, and Walmarts. Once they have run the mom, and pop stores out of business, ...

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It's called bait and switch. Drive the other stores out of business then ramp your prices up.

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Alex213 said:
Do you work for Wal-mart?

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Why, yes I do. I do believe that would grant me a more relevant perspective on Wal*Mart's labor practices, as well - considering that I actually labor for them, and have had labor relations training as an hourly supervisor.

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Just as Wal-Mart exports sprawl, it exports bad labor practices. Uni-Comerce, the global trade union for commercial workers, characterizes Wal-Mart as “an obsessively anti-union company at home and abroad.” The company “builds its competitive advantage on low wages, poor benefits, and a squeeze on producers.

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Naturally, a trade union is going to characterize Wal*Mart in a negative manner, specifically because of the fact that that Wal*Mart generates a lot of profit and there isn't a union that is leeching that money for themselves.

Wal*Mart is not obsessively anti-union. I have never heard of Wal*Mart picketing unions, or spreading anti-union propaganda, or making movies decrying unions. As for this obsession with being anti-union, Wal*Mart simply does not feel that a union will be benefical for the company or its employees, and so it strives to ensure that its stores and operations do not create situations in which the possibillity of the formation of a union will arise.

What that does mean? Don't treat your associates like shit, respect them for who they are and what they contribute, don't violate labor laws. Then there isn't a problem for anyone, except the labor unions which want their money.

As far as wages and benefits go, I'm pretty sure that both are equal or above the average wages and benefits provided by any other retail establishment. Not only that, but Wal*Mart is increasing the amount and quality of its benefits, especially for part-time positions which previously didn't have as much access to benefits.

As far as the "squeeze on suppliers", I think that it makes sense that, when a supplier begins working with Wal*Mart, they are going to sell more and more of their product, and the supplier is going to need to supply more and more. Hhhm... I wonder how that works?

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Through predatory pricing, it can force both large and small competitors out of business,” according to Uni-Commerce.

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That is to say, because Wal*Mart has a more effective business model, they do better than their competitors? If you can't play the game....

Where I live, we have two Wal*Marts (I believe they are planning on building a third in the next few years). There is a Target, quite a few Hy-Vee's (grocery store), two Shopkos (retail chain as well) a couple of Menard's, a few Ace Hardwares, Sunshine Foods (local grocery chain, at least two locations), a few other kinds of grocery stores, not to mention all of the other stores that we competition shop, and the only one of them that is going out of business is K-Mart.

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The problem with low pay and unions is one of the main obstacles the company faces in its international expansion plans. The rift between unions and Wal-Mart, say financial analysts Fallstreet.com, is “intensifying with each global step the company makes.”

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Oh no, the unions are upset with Wal*Mart! 

Admist all of the labor union propaganda that is spewing forth here, please inform me as to why exactly a labor union is a benefical thing to the associates of a retail establishment such as Wal*Mart.

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Since 1999 when it was taken over by the biggest retailer in the world, the U.S. chain Wal-Mart, Asda’s strategy of ‘Every Day Low Pricing’, has triggered a supermarket price war in which chains without buying muscle are disadvantaged. In order to keep up with Asda, our leading chains in the UK must be ever more ruthless in the way they operate or else risk losing their place at the supermarket superpowers, top table".

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Yes, that is something known as business. Those more able to compete are more apt to survive, while those who are not able to effectively do business are less apt to survive. That is business. Don't like it, don't do business.

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We enter a race to the bottom where everyone loses, especially the consumer.

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The only one that is losing is the labor union, and that loss is the equivalent of giving a dog a flea bath.


Peace.

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Phred said:
Yet somehow, despite years and in some cases even decades of other stores being "driven out of business" by WalMart, their prices never ramp up. WalMart continues to operate -- year after year -- on the thinnest profit margins imaginable, never exceeding 4% and some years dipping as low as 2.5%. Will we have an opportunity to see this oft-predicted rise in prices in our lifetimes?

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In 2012, we will drop the Nazi banners. When customers go into the store, we will tow all of their vehicles. Our people greeters will pick pocket them, etc. etc. etc.

Oh, and also, Children's Miracle Network donations will be mandatory, and department managers will have the right, agreed to by entering the store, to take customer's carts into the backroom and load them up with all excessive overstock resulting from the fucked up replenishment system.


Peace.

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Alex213 said:
It's pretty obvious that the employers arn't going to want something that gives their employees more power. That's basic.

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If you respect your workers for what they are why be so skittish about letting them form unions if they want to? Or is this "respect your workers as long as they obey you like slaves"?

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I'm not sure who you mean by "associates", but unions are of obvious benefit to workers which is presumably why Walmart are so keen that they don't exist.

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Or putting it another way, those who don't give a fuck about the environment or anything else will survive. Those who do, won't. I'm not convinced that's a good long term model to follow.

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That doesn't make sense. As the environment sustains our existance, taking action that serves as a detriment to the environment will not provide for survival. I'm not sure how being capable of having lower prices than someone else equates into destroying the environment.

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Trouble is the only way the supplier can supply more and more at the same price is stuffing the animals full of more growth hormones, feeding them on low quality food and using more and more pesticides. Not too good for the health of nation or the environment in the long run.

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Then there is a discrepancy between supply and demand. Take that one up with the customers, my friend - they get what they want no matter who they have to go through to get it. Start a campaign of enlightenment targeted towards the customers. I'm sorry, but you cannot attribute unethical practices performed by the supplier as being Wal*Mart's responsibility.

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And the producers and the environment and the consumers eating piss-poor food produced as cheaply as possible. Which means pretty much all of us.

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No, just the unions.


Peace.

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Alex213 said:

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Oh, I'm sorry, I was under the impression that you were actually going to engage in discussion and provide examples of exactly how labor unions empower workers. Perhaps if you were to actually do so, we could gain some ground in understanding this, but if you don't have anything to bring to the table beyond empty assertions, then I guess we'll have to leave it at that.

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And if they arn't? What the fuck do you do then with no union?

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Better working conditions, better pay.

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But it provides for profits. And corporate directors behind high iron fences in mansions will be the last to feel any suffering from wrecking the environment so I wouldn't rely on them to help.

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I'm sorry but you can.

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"Don't blame me for injecting cows with hormones, Wal*Mart made me do it!".

Riiight.


Peace.

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BENTONVILLE, Ark., June 16, 2006 – John Menzer, vice chairman of Wal-Mart Stores Inc., will speak at the CIES 50th World Food Business Summit on June 23 in Paris, France. At this summit, retail and supplier executives will discuss new strategic concepts and opportunities regarding the overall direction of the food business on a global scale.  Menzer will address the role of business in the 21st century, emphasizing that businesses can be both efficient and profitable while also selling products and adopting practices that are environmentally friendly.

“We at Wal-Mart recognize that being both an efficient business and environmentally friendly are goals that can work together,” said Menzer. “We understand the importance of utilizing renewable energy sources, creating less waste, and offering our customers access to sustainable products.”

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Excerpt from a press release...


Peace.

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Sorry, but those aren't exactly effective answers. A labor union simply cannot guarantee better working conditions, or increased wages.

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bi0 said:
guarantee? no. but they sure can fight for them and have been quite successful at that. some unions are corrupt, but that does not mean they all are useless. have you ever worked in a union shop before? I have.

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No, I have not worked in a workplace that has been unionized. I do realize, however, that a union might be able to secure better wages, but there are also a myriad of negative effects from being unionized. Mandatory promotion by seniority is common, is it not? I would hate to be an engaged employee who would lose oppurtunities for advancement because of a union. I've been employed with Wal*Mart for two years now, with no real previous work history, and I have been an hourly supervisor for months now, managing two departments of the store.

I also feel that the inherent divisiveness between management and employees is unnecessary and counter-productive for all involved. Voting in a labor union is, essentially, creating a new management that struggles for power with the company management in place. I do not understand how a company can be as effective in its operations with such a structure in place - naturally, anything that has a detrimental effect on the company itself has a detrimental effect on the employees themselves.

In my eyes, the only need for a labor union is when labor laws are being violated. Less than 10% of the work force is unionized. Wal*Mart's success depends entirely upon the role that the associates in the stores play in servicing the customer - Wal*Mart isn't going to create a negative work environment, as that would be biting the hand that feeds. Customers aren't going to want to shop in a store that has a negative atmosphere resulting from its employees.

A union certainly might be necessary in other fields or industries, but it clearly is not in retail, especially Wal*Mart. I've personally witnessed supervisors receive disciplinary action as result of associates utilizing the communication resources that are granted to us as an absolute right when the work environment becomes improper. It works, which is exactly why there isn't a union in Wal*Mart stores.

Unions certainly seem to think that Wal*Mart should be unionized, although apparently Wal*Mart associates do not. It certainly seems to make sense that unions would love to see Wal*Mart unionized. 1.8 million associates would mean an amazing amount of union dues, would it not?

I'd love to be the head of a union, man... tons of money for being a business that leeches off of another business. Perhaps in certain situations, they can provide a service to employees that is otherwise not available to the employees, but, with Wal*Mart, that service is the absolute, undeniable right of each associate, to speak for themself, and to follow up with it if not satisifed as far as they wish, without retaliation. No need for parasites here.


Peace.