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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5882784 - 07/20/06 09:00 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Hell no I don't believe iran is a threat to a damn thing.





So you can't see Iran or Syria or Hamas sending operatives to the US to pull off some kind of terrorist attack. Never happen. That's the kind of thing only stateless actors such as Osama bin Laden and his Merry Pranksters do.

What a charming yet naive take on things. Must be nice to be so trusting.

Quote:

I fear the people who are locking up my countrymen for victimless crimes, I fear the way they are then turning around and punishing these people for life with background checks barring persons with drug crime from gainful employment.




Ah. It is only Islamist governments you trust, then. Secular democracies don't get a pass. As a side note, would you rather be caught with drugs in the US or in Iran?





Phred


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: Phred]
    #5883399 - 07/21/06 12:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

So you can't see Iran or Syria or Hamas sending operatives to the US to pull off some kind of terrorist attack. What a charming yet naive take on things. Must be nice to be so trusting.

Have you been watching "Our Man Flint"?

They might do. You don't need to look to Iran for fearful fantasies tho. White supremacists might have "operatives" already in the US ready to pull off some kind of terrorist attack. A US religious group might have operatives ready to pull off some kind of terrorist attack. You can dream up all the scenarios you want. They all might happen.

Except the ones who are the victims of the terrorist's actions, of course. I imagine the ones who survived the attacks in Kenya, New York, Madrid, London, and elsewhere have a a right to fear terrorist actions.


They may have a right to fear it but they'd be very deluded in doing so. There's been one Islamic terrorist attack in the UK in which 52 people died. There are 60 million people in the UK. The chance of someone being involved in the first bombing were remote. The chance of the same person being caught in another bombing are incredibly remote.

Once you've been struck by lightning you may "have a right to fear" being struck by lightning again. However as RosettaStoned made clear that doesn't mean we all need to sit panicking in fear of lightning.


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OfflineLeanin
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Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: Alex213]
    #5883417 - 07/21/06 12:59 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

hamas and hezbollah have been terrorizing israel for year, israel has the right to defend itself. What if mexico just started sending rockets into texas?

also...the lebanese government, in a pact with israel, promised to take care of hamas and hezbollah.

the UN and NATO are both irrelevant nowadays and israel didnt want to fuck around any longer.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: Leanin]
    #5883426 - 07/21/06 01:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

What if mexico just started sending rockets into texas?


That's a good point. What if a terrorist group in Mexico did? Would the US launch bombing raids on Mexico city?


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: Alex213]
    #5883428 - 07/21/06 01:06 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
What if mexico just started sending rockets into texas?


That's a good point. What if a terrorist group in Mexico did? Would the US launch bombing raids on Mexico city?




What if that group was recognized by the Mexican government, subsequently allowed to exist and even had a footing in the Mexican parliament?


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: Basilides]
    #5883433 - 07/21/06 01:10 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

Alex213 said:
What if mexico just started sending rockets into texas?


That's a good point. What if a terrorist group in Mexico did? Would the US launch bombing raids on Mexico city?




What if that group was recognized by the Mexican government, subsequently allowed to exist and even had a footing in the Mexican parliament?




So what if they were? Would you launch bombing raids on Mexico City?


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: Alex213]
    #5883645 - 07/21/06 04:35 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> So what if they were? Would you launch bombing raids on Mexico City?

I love how we make up situations that would never happen, and then argue about the meaning of what we would do in these fictional settings as if they were relevant.

Why not worry about what is really happening... ?


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: Seuss]
    #5883650 - 07/21/06 04:40 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Heres a semi non-fictional scenario for you then.

Who would have supported the UK if we had chosen to bomb Dublin into the ground in response to IRA attacks on the UK mainland?


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Always Smi2le


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: GazzBut]
    #5883786 - 07/21/06 07:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Nice to see you back Gazz  :smile:

Who would have supported the UK if we had chosen to bomb Dublin into the ground in response to IRA attacks on the UK mainland?

I think that would depend on how many times they have seen "The Quiet man"...

All the yanks ever did was give the IRA more money. God knows what they would have done if we'd demolished Dublin.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: Alex213]
    #5883925 - 07/21/06 09:18 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Couldnt stay away for ever Alex!

I get the feeling that if the Lebanese made a smashing drink like guiness, were always up for the crack and made up a massive part of US immigrant heritage then our cousins across the pond would all be condemning Israel right now and demanding that the government intervene immediately.

Its funny how tribal loyalties have an effect on ones moral compass!


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: Alex213]
    #5883940 - 07/21/06 09:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
All the yanks ever did was give the IRA more money.



If by "yanks" you mean Irish Americans, then yes. As far as I know, our government was against the IRA, as were most Americans who were not of Irish descent.


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Registered: 05/29/06
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Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: Phred]
    #5884874 - 07/21/06 03:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

but to say there were no Jews living there in 1948 is to exhibit ignorance of history of the most profound order. The Shephardic Jews never left the area.





Care to back that up with numbers comparing population in the area prior to ww2?


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: Phred]
    #5884895 - 07/21/06 03:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ah. It is only Islamist governments you trust, then. Secular democracies don't get a pass. As a side note, would you rather be caught with drugs in the US or in Iran?




Who the hell do you think pushes the drug laws in other countries anyway? You act like these countries form their drug policy all by themselves. Then you make statements like I only trust islamic govts? You are delusional man. I would not want to live under islam under any circumstances and there is not a snowball chance in hell of that ever happening except in your fear-driven impossible worst case scenarios that give your mind an excuse to justify cold blooded murder.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
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Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 17 days
Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5884937 - 07/21/06 04:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

What, from a census? Note I never claimed that the Jews have always been a MAJORITY in the Holy Land, just that Jews have lived there since the dawn of Judaism.

Here's just one of countless timelines you can easily find on the internet -- http://www.mideastweb.org/timeline.htm

Some points of interest --

AD 133-135: Second Jewish revolt under Bar Kochba crushed. Judea renamed Palestina. Jews are banned from Jerusalem by Hadrianus Caesar.

AD 969: Fatimid conquest. Churches and synagogues of Jerusalem destroyed.

AD 1099: Crusaders conquer Jerusalem, slaughter most Jewish and Moslem inhabitants, expel Jews.

AD 1799 : Napoleon conquers Jaffa but retreats before Acco (Acre); 1799 - Napoleon's Proclamation of a Jewish State was stillborn, and his declaration of equal rights for Jews was repealed in part in 1806

AD 1840: Blood libel (accusation that Jews kill Christian children to use their blood for Passover Matzoth) against Damascus Jewry

AD 1844: First census in Jerusalem shows 7120 Jews, 5760 Muslims, 3390 Christians.

AD 1878 : First Zionist Settlement - Petah Tikwa.

AD 1908: First Arabic newspaper in Haifa, al-Karmil, popularizes opposition to selling land to Zionists.

AD 1909: Foundation of Tel Aviv by Zionists (Called Ahuzat Bayit) near Jaffa; foundation of first Kibbutz - Degania.

Nov 2, 1917: British issued the Balfour Declaration, viewed by Jews and Arabs as promising a “National Home” for the Jews in Palestine.

Etc. etc. You can find plenty more by Googling something like timeline Jews Holy Land or history Jews Palestine.

Many people erroneously believe all the Jews left the Holy Land at some point, probably because these people take the definition of "the diaspora" too literally. Many Jews DID leave the Holy Land over the millennia -- that's why there were Jews in Europe, after all -- but certainly at no point in history did ALL Jews evacuate the Holy Land.

Note the census figures for Jerusalem in 1844: more Jews than either Muslims or Christians. The same had almost certainly been true for centuries before that census as well, it's just that there hadn't been a census taken to prove it since Roman times.



Phred


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5884988 - 07/21/06 04:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Who the hell do you think pushes the drug laws in other countries anyway? You act like these countries form their drug policy all by themselves.




LOL! You think Iran -- Iran, fa cryin' out loud! -- follows the lead of The Great Satan as a model for its legislation? Dude, sit back and THINK for a couple of minutes, okay?




Phred


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: Phred]
    #5886333 - 07/22/06 01:00 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

Who the hell do you think pushes the drug laws in other countries anyway? You act like these countries form their drug policy all by themselves.




LOL! You think Iran -- Iran, fa cryin' out loud! -- follows the lead of The Great Satan as a model for its legislation? Dude, sit back and THINK for a couple of minutes, okay?

Phred




Actually, Rosettatstoned is right. The US is the driving force behind the UN on drugs and guess who'se setting drug targets for the Iranians?

The UNODC has been working with Iran for approximately one decade and has had an office in Tehran since the late-1990s. According to its "Strategic Program Framework" for 2005-07, its objectives are to assist Tehran in reducing narcotics trafficking, contribute to prevention, treatment, and rehabilitation in connection with drug abuse and HIV/AIDS, and to promote the rule of law. UNODC has established quantifiable indicators for measuring the success of its efforts. Roberto Arbitrio, head of the UNODC office in Tehran, told the September Paris Pact meeting that the strategy for Iran was developed in collaboration with the Mini-Dublin Group and with Iranian authorities.

Incidentally why single out Iran? Why not Singapore? Between 1994 and 1999, an average of 13.57 executions were carried out per one million of the population, three times higher than the next country on the list, Saudi Arabia, mostly for drug trafficking, giving the wealthy city-state of four million people possibly the highest execution rate in the world relative to its population, Amnesty said.

Singapore's drug laws are among the world's harshest. Anyone aged 18 or over convicted of carrying more than 15 grams of heroin faces mandatory execution by hanging.


This is harsher than Iran where you need to be caught with 30 grams of heroin before you could face execution - not mandatory execution.

There are also sane voices in Iran on drugs: Ayatollah Hassan Marashi, who previously served on the High Council for Judicial Development and in the judiciary, said many people who become drug dealers do so out of economic necessity, "Aftab-i Yazd" reported on January 28. Arresting and imprisoning such people is counterproductive because their families only sink deeper into poverty and sometimes turn to prostitution. "Punishment does not correct people's behavior," he said. "We pay no attention to the causes and we merely pursue the effects."

You'd be hard pressed finding anyone as sane as the Ayatollah involved in US drug prohibition.

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2006/04/57a99e99-df57-4066-90aa-8a89460a0314.html



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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: Alex213]
    #5886411 - 07/22/06 01:36 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

This is where Phred get's quiet.  :lol:


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: Alex213]
    #5887246 - 07/22/06 11:23 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I have a feeling the UN does not promote execution for drug crimes.


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5887467 - 07/22/06 12:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think the UN (driven by the US) would rather see execution for drug crimes than people being free to smoke pot and other illegal drugs.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: World on the brink of War? [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5887557 - 07/22/06 01:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think that you don't have any proof that the UN promotes execution for using drugs.


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