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Offlinebeatnicknick
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average dried grams question
    #5856977 - 07/14/06 04:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

So I hear the average cake yields 5-15 dried grams after all of its flushes, closer to 5 if you skip dunking, rolling, and DECing, 15 if you dont.

But what is the average per cake for a casing w/ just vermiculite? I know this might not be common knowledge, but what in your guys' experience?


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Offlineroyer
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: beatnicknick]
    #5856981 - 07/14/06 04:15 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

it all depends. on the strain , how much nutrient you have, water ,there are a bunch of factors.also you might want to spend a little extra to mix that verm with something else too like coco choir . you can also use poo, worm castings.for a mono tub idea. they are all cheap and will help your flushes. worm castings at most hydroponic sites is anywhere from 1 dollar a pound to 15-20 for 30 pounds. h/poo is on ebay for 8 dollars including shipping for 5 dry shredded pounds. after hydration more like 15.coco choir is very cheap for a brick from one of our sponsors.


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if you have any questions please feel free to pm me , thx :-)


Edited by royer9864 (07/14/06 05:12 AM)


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OfflinedeXtrous
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: royer]
    #5856988 - 07/14/06 04:22 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

How would you add those extra nutrients to your cakes? just mix a bit in with your verm+brf mixing?
Also how much would you put for every 240mL jar (140g verm, 40g brf)


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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: royer]
    #5857009 - 07/14/06 04:40 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

royer9864 said:
it all depends. on the strain , how much nutrient you have, water ,there are a bunch of factors.also you might want to spend a little extra to mix that verm with something else too like coco choir , poo, worm castings. they are all cheap and will help your flushes. worm castings at most hydroponic sites is anywhere from 1 dollar a pound to 15-20 for 30 pounds. h/poo is on ebay for 8 dollars including shipping for 5 dry shredded pounds. after hydration more like 15.coco choir is very cheap for a brick from one of our sponsors.




I totally would but my casing is cased and I don't want to complicate things. I here you have to balance your pH and thats a whole 'nother process.

I will however look for jiffy mix, which is prebalanced, for my next grow.

Anyway, the big question from my first post is still unanswered. I'm not asking for a magical reading of my particular grow, just your experiences.


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Offlineroyer
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: beatnicknick]
    #5857026 - 07/14/06 04:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

when i am making my cakes i dont measure at all. i mix the verm with the brf get it where i like the color then i put a cup of worm castings. mix and add water until i liked the mixture. when you are adding you water to the mix you can also take a teaspoon of honey add hot water stir good and then add that to your verm brf castings etc. there is lots of nutrients that you can add . but dont go overkill. just enough to make that mushie bigger or bigger flushes or more yield.

a lot of times when i am casing my cakes i will take a teaspoon of honey mix with hot water . boil in a pot with a lid then let cool . take a spray bottle put alcohol in it slosh it around good. spray it through it a few then pore back in to the alcohol bottle. then i put sterile honey water mix in the spray bottle and spray in the sink a few to get the alcohol out of the lines. then spray your casing with nutrients it will help alot in your case.


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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: royer]
    #5857032 - 07/14/06 05:01 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

great idea, but then I'll also be making a habitat for contams. and if there are any contams that are remaining neautral because they're only on vermiculite, this will wake em up.

i don't know if i should or not- its a great idea for bigger flushes but then i risk having no flushes at all!

not sure what to do- need more input!


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I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.


Edited by beatnicknick (07/14/06 05:02 AM)


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Offlinekristen
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: beatnicknick]
    #5857036 - 07/14/06 05:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Bad advice. You do not put poo or castings in a casing layer. You also do not spray nutrient water into your casing layer. Casings are water reservoirs for a mycelial network that is fruiting, and not trying to colonize a vegatative substrate. It will also bring hearty contamination.


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Offlineroyer
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: beatnicknick]
    #5857037 - 07/14/06 05:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

were your cakes fully colonized when you cased them?? if so wait till it starts poking through the verm them spray some on but not a lot a little will go a long way. fully colonized cakes are pretty contam resistant. but you just probley brok your up so leave it for a while. when you go to put in the fruit chamber after you let the casing incubate then spray some on you should be fine.


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if you have any questions please feel free to pm me , thx :-)


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Offlineroyer
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: royer]
    #5857039 - 07/14/06 05:06 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

coco you can but if he were to use poo or castings then he could mix it up like a mono tub . would be no problem.


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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: royer]
    #5857040 - 07/14/06 05:07 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

hmmm... yeah if i do it, i'll do it after i see mycelium poke through the top. yeah I did just case it. and i have some big chunks and lots of small chunks, my goal was to create a lot of hills and valleys in my casing, and i did. not sure if this was a good idea or not now, any input on that?

thanks kristen and royer and whoever posted way up there for the help


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I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.


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Offlineroyer
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: royer]
    #5857042 - 07/14/06 05:08 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

the nuit water they sell as mushroom grow juice and is close to the honey water idea


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if you have any questions please feel free to pm me , thx :-)


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Offlineroyer
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: royer]
    #5857045 - 07/14/06 05:11 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

yes she is right about adding poo casting to casing but if you wanted to use poo you could mix it all up into a mono tub and spawn your cakes in to it but rye or bird seed works better for me


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: royer]
    #5857550 - 07/14/06 10:15 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

woa woa woa slow down a second. 5-15 grams from a half pint cake? good luck with that... that's wayyy optimistic and 15 is definitely unrealistic. if you pull 15 dry grams off a cake i'll give you a blowjob. (its impossible by the way. remember you put 1/4 cup of water in that cake at the start? well thats about 60 grams of water. and once the cake is colonized it holds less. mushrooms are about 90% water, so even using impossibly ideal conditions a 60 wet gram flush gives you 6 dry grams... estimating numbers here of course, but you see where i'm going with it? you'd have to pull off two impossibly ideal flushes in a row, then a third flush to get 15 grams dry)... sure your cake can absorb some extra moisture from the humidity, and from your de casing/rolled verm, but the amount there is small to negligible.

try cutting those numbers in half. 2.5-7. 7 is about the best you're gonna see from a cake, when you've done everything flawlessly perfect, and gotten 3-4 solid flushes off it.

if you don't dunk and roll or de case, you might not get anything at all due to lack of moisture, best case scenario you end up in the 2-4 range.

casing a cake is hard to say yield wise. generally its a little better, but don't be looking for like a two fold increase. casing a single cake or two is only going to slightly outperform fruiting as cakes. the real benefit comes when you case several of them and you get a nice thick substrate layer, then you do a bit better and end up with larger fruits than if you had fruited from the cakes as is. of course taking those crumbled cakes and spawning to a bulk sub is better yet, and then you really see gains. the benefits to casing are increased surface area, and the casing layer itself can feed your substrate with some additional moisture, thus overcoming those limitations i spoke of above.

to illustrate my point:


what you're looking at is 2 crumbled cakes, cased, with an awesome pinset. that's 120 grams wet from that flush (aka about 12 dry). even with dunking, 2nd and 3rd flushes added a measly 30 grams wet to the total, obviously it was pretty much out of steam with a first flush like that. so if you think you can even come close to that with a single cake that isn't cased... you're in for some disappointment. you'll also note how tiny the fruits are... what i was getting to before explaining that when you only case a cake or two that's what happens... it simply can't support much more.


Edited by creamcorn (07/14/06 10:44 AM)


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Re: average dried grams question [Re: creamcorn]
    #5858999 - 07/14/06 06:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> my goal was to create a lot of hills and valleys in my casing, and i did. not sure if this was a good idea or not now, any input on that?

Not a good idea. You want the myc to come up as evenly as possible. Read up on patching, because you're going to be doing a lot of it if you want an optimal pinset.

As far as spraying nutes on a casing. Very bad idea. If royer had actually tried that himself he would be too busy posting in the contamination forum to be giving out bad advice here.


-FF


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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: fastfred]
    #5860193 - 07/14/06 11:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, so let me get this straight, cakes produce app. 2-7 dried grams, usually on the lower end if you don't dunk, roll, DEC, and on the higher end if you do so.  There is a chance of yielding a little more than 7 dried grams per cake if you have a very large casings. So with 12 proper cakes, I can pull out 24-84 dried grams. If I start my next batch of 12 cakes while my other 12 are in the fruiting chamber, around the second flush sometime, I can pull in 24-84 dried grams every 1.5 months.

That's enough to keep me and all my shrooming buddies satisfied  :thumbup:

And now I have to go research patching. If anyone has any input on that, or can just simplify the idea for me, that'd be a big help. Thanks.


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Re: average dried grams question [Re: beatnicknick]
    #5860329 - 07/14/06 11:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> And now I have to go research patching. If anyone has any input on that, or can just simplify the idea for me, that'd be a big help.

OK, you incubate your casing for a day or three. Then when you check it you will see the myc has come through the casing in some areas, but not others. The idea of patching is that you sprinkle a little casing material over the areas where the myc has come up so that the myc comes to the surface at the exact same time across the entire surface of your casing.

In this way you get the entire surface comming up at the same time and it pins across the entire surface at the same time, resulting in a kick-ass, totally even pinset. Otherwise the areas that come up first will pin first, resulting in spotty pinning.

You can also patch after you harvest the first flush so that any holes are patched up. Patching works really well and I highly reccomend it.


-FF


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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: fastfred]
    #5860529 - 07/15/06 01:17 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Awesome, thanks. I'm off to patch tomorow night at 8 o clock, exactly 3 days after I incubated my casing. I'll tell you how it goes.


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Re: average dried grams question [Re: creamcorn]
    #10098499 - 04/03/09 12:49 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

i got about 240 g's on my 1st flush


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OfflineThe shroomy 1
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: mobcali]
    #10098592 - 04/03/09 01:32 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Shit, I was all Up in arms about this damn thread until I realized that it was over 2 years old.  Lot's of mis information until creamcorn came in to set things straight.  Mobcali.  please check the dates of threads you post to...... This died over 2yrs ago.


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AMU Q&A thread.


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OfflineAlienTechKilla
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Re: average dried grams question [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #10098620 - 04/03/09 01:47 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for using the search feature.... You Fail Though. Thanks for playing. lol


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