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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: Tannis]
    #586218 - 03/22/02 06:54 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

My God... TANNIS!!!

That sounds horrible! I've had my perilous moments, but NOTHING even close to THAT! Bad trips are one thing, but this seems to me a whole different story...

Now I'm just guessing but couldn't it be you tripped hard & had a severe seizure with subsequent amnesia? It sounds quite physical what you're discribing...

About badtrips & stuff: Personally I feel Stanislav Grof's book "LSD Psychotherapy" discribes such things best of the stuff I've read...

Should you trip again?
If you decide to do so, I'd say go for very low doses, like 1 gram or so of good shrooms, but if I even suspected the stuff you discribed was physical in origin, I myself personally would hang the Shroom in the willows & quit.


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OfflineTannis
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Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: Swami]
    #586264 - 03/22/02 07:51 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

The 4.4 and the 3.5 that I mentioned were from the same cased rice cakes. I take the flushes and mix them up using some aborts large and small shrooms. My "good" trip was also from this same cased cakes. It doesn't make sense. I have had trips that didn't seem to kick in because I ate something that day and other times I trip hard on a full stomach from the same "batch". All my trips have been from two different batches. I grow them, cool dry with a fan, decication chamber with calcium chloride, then vaccum seal them in premeasured doses and they go in the freezer until used.
Each time I had a "bad" trip the effects after the trip were stronger until I now wake up sick, and have been doing this for a couple months now. It will even hit me during the day. I think the only variable is me! Something was awakened in me by the trip and it is growing and getting more freaky and strange all the time.

The reason I kept tripping (3 bad trips) is because I thought if I tripped I might "work through the problem" but it just got worse. And now it doesn't seem to be going away. If I could find a counselor or doctor who I thought could help me I would go to them....
This might be spiritual or something as well or it could be the repressed memories of years of abuse as a child.....
I don't know but it is really getting next to me.....and it is starting to affect my life......more depression anxiety and suicidal thoughts........
If I were a patient and walked into my office and said this stuff----I as a counselor would say that I need counseling ----but I would need a "shroom doctor" or "shroom shaman"....
My "problem" is shroom and emotionally related.....the "little brothers" are after me.... and "big brother" is roaming the streets making me paranoid.......
I'm still looking for the solution.....
Advice is appreciated......


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: Tannis]
    #586325 - 03/22/02 09:09 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe there is no personal problem to work through. It could be a danger inherent with shrooming. The neuronal disruption that causes the prominent geometric visuals may have some long-term affects.

I would suggest looking into "smart drugs" as a possible way of rebalancing your brain chemistry.

The prevalent myth that mushrooms have been used safely for 10,000 years may not be true in the broad sense. Despite Mckenna's picturesque monkey mushroom orgy at the dawn of time, there has been no previously recorded large-scale mushroom use. The users that we know of were usually shamans, often-times cultivated since birth for that role. Or they may have just been one of the small handful of souls that could handul the full power of the mushroom energy. I don;t believe that there is any strong evidence for entire cultures partaking in the fungus. The best known are the Mayas and Aztecs, but again I believe it was only the religious elite to partake, not the culture en masse.

The only recorded psychological profile we have of users and the affect on their outlook is in the Good Friday Experiment. Even they had one freakout. However, a relatively intelligent and centered group that had dedicated their lives to God and into higher education (these were seminary students) is not a cross-section of society. Remember that a priest is a form of shaman,

A study of both positive and negative short and long-term affects really needs to be done before anyone can speak with authority.

Once again, note how few middle-aged people are here. Sure it is largely youth-oriented, but it may be that most everyone ends up quitting after a bad trip or at the very least, no more fun or insights.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineAbstractSoul
member

Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 172
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: Swami]
    #586346 - 03/22/02 09:40 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

i have had a major problem with the "what have i got myself into" thing, epsecially when the trip starts to hit really hard. i've had 3 bad trips due to being afraid of it. i think i've found the perfect answer is taking just under a gram, or one small mushroom. i know, i know- you're prolly saying "shit, that wouldn't do anything" .. well i've split up 2 grams between 3 people twice this week and both times we all had a great trip that didn't get too intense. and it definitely wasn't just a psychological thing where we convinced ourselves we were tripping because 1. none of us expected that little of a dose to affect us 2. there was a definite peak that actually did still get pretty intense- which completely amazed me.

anyway, try taking half a gram...you might be surprised.


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house is a spiritual thing
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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 443
Loc: MA
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: Swami]
    #586357 - 03/22/02 09:48 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

The users that we know of were usually shamans, often-times cultivated since birth for that role. Or they may have just been one of the small handful of souls that could handul the full power of the mushroom energy

I definitely think it takes uncommon mental fortitude to handle repeated or high dose psychedelic experiences. Until you have a bad experience, everything is fine, becaues all you know or can imagine are good experiences. But once you have a bad one (and I think anyone can if they experiment long enough or with high enough doses), it becomes easier and easier to have them again. Even if you're in a good mind set, maybe you'll see a visual or feel a body sensation that reminds you of how you felt when you had a bad experience, and it takes a lot of mental control to not throw yourself down that spiral again, especially in the vulnerable and suggestable state you are in while tripping. Most people can't do this, and that is why psychedelics aren't for everyone.

I think the dangers with psychedelics (although definitely real) are psychological rather than physiological. Your attitude toward what you are experiencing will determine the difference between a blissful enlightening experience and a trip through hell that effects your outlook on the world for years to come. New pathways are being opened, but its up to you to either be afraid of it or treat it as an opportunity to explore and grow.


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 443
Loc: MA
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: AbstractSoul]
    #586359 - 03/22/02 09:50 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

And do you think you'll eventually be able to work up to bigger doses? Do you think taking little steps like that eases the fear somewhat?


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OfflineAbstractSoul
member

Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 172
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #586366 - 03/22/02 09:58 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

at this point im not really concerned with taking larger doses. i have taken large doses in the past and i already know what it is like to trip really hard. i have had the most enlightening and blissful experience i can imagine and i have also had some of the scariest experiences of my life. if i feel at some point i am ready for a large dose again, then i will consider it. im sticking with what i'm going after, and right now half a gram gets me there. i haven't tried it yet, but i know if i took a small dose like this by myself it would be an absolutely wonderful experience.


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house is a spiritual thing
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InvisibleSouthernGent
veteran
Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1,331
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #586371 - 03/22/02 10:06 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

It has worked for me so far. I have been very careful in doses. I am in the camp though that havent had a bad trip yet but I know for sure if I abuse or take to high a dose it could happen. I am surprised by the number of users over the past 25 years that there hasnt been more research done.


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OfflineAbstractSoul
member

Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 172
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Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #586372 - 03/22/02 10:06 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

but to answer your question, yes i do think that taking small steps would help ease the fear, especially after having a bad trip(s). it lets you have a good experience after the bad ones, and helps to change your outlook. but at the same time, i think you could still have a bad experience of a small dose like that. it is just easier to stop the bad when it starts- which is another reason why it would help with working up to larger doses- you can kind of train your mind on what to do when things get crazy.


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house is a spiritual thing
---------------------------------------------


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OfflineTannis
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Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: Asante]
    #586413 - 03/22/02 10:46 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the vote of concern.....I've always been a kind of an the edge person and drugs have an unpredictable effect on me......one time I'm tripping my balls off .....the next time an even higher dose doesn't have any effect on me.....
Guess I'm weird but that's what makes me good at what I do....
For me it is always the extreme.....all or nothing....until I get one of these "bad" experiences.....I'm for some reason obsessed with obsessions.......


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OfflineTannis
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Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: Swami]
    #586445 - 03/22/02 11:08 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

That's strange that you would say that there might not be anything to "work through". I have wondered about that.... Whatever it is .... it comes on like I'm getting muscle spasms in my abdomen and stomach that go all the way up to my chest....then the feeling goes into the scared kid kind of paranoid feeling.....

You're probably right about the brain chemistry...

As far as I'm concerned, I feel I am a modern day priest or shaman..... I feel like I am supposed to go where others do not wish to go.....

In my job as an "Adolescent Addictions Counselor"..... I chase away the demons and bad energies and people go on to lead the lives they were meant to lead in peace and fulfillment. I am the teacher. I can remember vivid memories of things I said or did that were beyond my years and I was only 2yrs old.....! I remember teaching my parents things and getting frustrated and shouting at them, "Who is raising Who?!!!

I'm the one who has to have the first hand experience. I believe in God because I realize that I should be dead and someone stopped me.....steered me away from the cliff of death and lead me to help others. My drug experiences really help me counsel people that are out of control and on a course of destruction.....

The problem is that I have traveled that road so long with them that the shrooms seem to be driving at times or they try to get me to go over the cliff......

I wonder if I will regain control or if they will win.......
A friend of mine saw that I had changed after bad trips and ask me if I still had the loaded gun at the house that I keep for protection. She was concerned that I might shoot myself. I told her I still have it. It is still loaded. I don't plan on using it to off myself.....but....I'm afraid to touch it or handle it. I don't know if the shrooms will kick in and take over ......
Whatever this is ...... it's getting worse......
Have a nice day and I pray to God that you never have any experiences like this....newbies beware.....


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 33,321
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Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: Tannis]
    #586651 - 03/23/02 03:41 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Right now I enjoy tripping more.
I would love to get to the point where growing is a greater pleasure. Like someone else said, I like to trip, then go and check out my growing shrooms. It seems like they start growing better after I stare at them and try to communicate with them. No I can't prove it. One time I did look at my cake jars while tripping on acid and shrooms, and the mycelium kept growing, then contracting over and over. It was cool.



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Mp3 of the month:  The Deep - Turned On



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Offlineyoberutan
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Registered: 12/29/01
Posts: 26
Loc: midwest
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: Learyfan]
    #586814 - 03/23/02 07:38 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

something about the fact of raising my own materials makes it more special to me.all my plants know they are loved and respected.i take a ritualistic approach to my growing,harvesting and consuming.always being sure to thank them for their secrets.to me i cannot draw the line between the two anymore,they go hand in hand.


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the drum is the great spirits favorite instrument.thats why we are all given a heartbeat.


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Anonymous

Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: Swami]
    #586828 - 03/23/02 07:59 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Swami

Your hash was tainted.

Leaf


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: ]
    #587024 - 03/23/02 02:04 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

As there was no sample left to examine, I guess we will never know. From my symptoms, it looked like food poisoning; i.e. bacteria-caused; yet I have heard of others having extreme reactions on too much oral cannabis.

On what do you base your conclusion?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleMeltingPenguin
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2,138
Loc: new england
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: Swami]
    #587026 - 03/23/02 02:06 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

why does one have to be more fun than the other? tehy are both good


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Growing anything is good for the soul


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OfflineFood
---Beast---

Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 390
Loc: Siberia
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: Swami]
    #587071 - 03/23/02 02:47 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I love growing and enjoy every part of the shroom production process but I am currenlty dealing with problems from my last trip but the trip before was awesome .
So I would say that good trips are better than growing but then growing gives you a different kind of reward - I have been interested in mushrooms moulds and spores since before I knew what tripping was so I guess mycology is something I like anyway .

hey yoberutan, well said, I agree .

And swami: Eating hash can be very intense on its own so add half a hit of acid and im sure it could push you to were you went even if it were pure hash . I once drank a strong home made hash drink and then went to my friends house and after having an excellent time for hours I began to come down and I felt like my chest was under great pressure and realised that my heart beat was INSANELY fast, I was worried that it might break in some way and it was pretty scar - but still fun !


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--------mushworld.com-----More info than you can throw a stick at-


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: Food]
    #587089 - 03/23/02 03:17 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

For me growing is very important to establish a bond, a connection to the "spirit", I feel the same way in having a veg garden, there is something miraculous for me in seeing something grow, brings me grate satisfaction in creating symbiotic relationships with the plant world.
I take care of them and they take care of me :smile:
I got to the point now that I even talked to them.


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Offlinejimmyvengeance
member
Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 130
Last seen: 18 years, 21 days
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: Swami]
    #588046 - 03/24/02 08:01 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Hunt around for an old article/book chapter by Andrew Weil about oral hash overdose. I somehow hunted it down through erowid---if you have trouble finding it, let me know and I'll attempt an exhaustive search. He consumed four grams of untainted hash orally and had an absolutely miserable experience. One can indeed, and probably rather easily, experience an overdose from cannabis. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the basic idea of an oral overdose is this: cannabis contains a multitude of chemicals, some of which are bad for you if eaten in too-high dosages. Most of these chemicals do not survive smoking, so the only legitimate overdose risk comes from eating.


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Offlinegeometrix
newbie
Registered: 12/26/01
Posts: 29
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: What's more fun: Tripping or Growing? [Re: Swami]
    #588071 - 03/24/02 08:50 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I was only introduced to the holy mushroom last year and have found myself dabbling in it quite a bit. I have yet to try and grow the crazy fungi but I think it would take over my life, and im quite young so I dont think I should.
But hearing about "how far have i gone" sort of thinking on a come up. I get that pretty much every time i trip. Last friday I ate 4 grams in pur powder (cubensis) and had the most insane comeup and thought that I would never do the shrooms again because they were showing me too much etc. I thought it was going to turn into a bad trip because my sourroundings turned to shades of purple and my closed eye imagery consisted of tenticles moving about. but abpout half way through the trip i found reality again and got totally back into it and had an amazing time doing mad shit.

I was fully prepared for everything to go completely crazy but it didnt. How does a bad trip start, is there any way of getting out of a bad trip or are you stuck once your in it???


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