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musicturkey
Mitakuye Oyasin


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 303
Loc: MidWest
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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National Identity Cards
#5848521 - 07/11/06 08:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I was reading the webpage for that "freedom to fascism" movie and this was on its page...
"...the national identity card (becoming law in May 2008) and the implementation of radio frequency identification (RFID) technology to track citizens. A striking case about the evolving police state in America."
Is that true??
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth


Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN
Last seen: 7 years, 12 days
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: musicturkey]
#5848721 - 07/11/06 09:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
musicturkey said: I was reading the webpage for that "freedom to fascism" movie and this was on its page...
"...the national identity card (becoming law in May 2008) and the implementation of radio frequency identification (RFID) technology to track citizens. A striking case about the evolving police state in America."
Is that true??
Its possible, RFID's are used for tracking logistical things like industry shipments, everything down to clothes from walmart, to heavy machinery has a RFID so the shipper can keep track of said product.
RFID's can be destroyed however with a RFID zapper
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: musicturkey]
#5849014 - 07/11/06 10:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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the "national ID card" is a misnomer. all that is going into effect is a set of standards that state issued ID cards will have to meet in order to be accepted by the federal government for purposes like boarding airplanes, entering federal facilities, etc. my state issued driver's license already meets the standards. yours probably does too. some states do not. if it yours doesn't, you'll be able to get a new state ID sometime soon that does.
"(b) Minimum Document Requirements.--To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall include, at a minimum, the following information and features on each driver's license and identification card issued to a person by the State: (1) The person's full legal name. (2) The person's date of birth. (3) The person's gender. (4) The person's driver's license or identification card number. (5) A digital photograph of the person. (6) The person's address of principle residence. (7) The person's signature. (8) Physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes. (9) A common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements."
some states, believe it or not, do not issue state ID's that meet these standards. the new law also creates standards for preventing people from fraudulently obtaining ID's.
as you can see, not a big deal.
as far as the RFID tags, that's just a radio barcode. they're used a lot in the private sector for tracking shipments and whatnot. they are in widespread use by governments around the world and have been for some time - they use them for automatic highway toll collection (it's called easypass where i live), public transit passes, etc. the technology has been around since the 60's or 70's.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: wilshire]
#5850245 - 07/12/06 09:35 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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> as you can see, not a big deal.
The "big deal" to me is the fact that I have to have "papers" in order to travel. I can't help but picture the Nazi Gestapo demanding to see my identity papers before allowing me to get on the train. Why is being anonymous such a huge crime in modern society? Oh yeah, guilty until proven innocent.
> they use them for automatic highway toll collection
I remember reading about the automated radar detectors they installed that were tied into the easypass system to automatically assume guilt and charge speeding drivers that had the easypass system in their vehicle.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: Seuss]
#5850521 - 07/12/06 11:25 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The "big deal" to me is the fact that I have to have "papers" in order to travel. I can't help but picture the Nazi Gestapo demanding to see my identity papers before allowing me to get on the train. Why is being anonymous such a huge crime in modern society? Oh yeah, guilty until proven innocent.
you already need to present ID to get on commercial aircraft. this does not place any new requirements to carry or present ID. it establishes standards that state issued ID's must meet to be accepted by federal agencies.
I remember reading about the automated radar detectors they installed that were tied into the easypass system to automatically assume guilt and charge speeding drivers that had the easypass system in their vehicle.
easypass can record when you get on and off toll roads. depending on the length of the road and the time it takes you to traverse it, they could easily tell if your average speed exceeded the speed limit. they don't use it for that though. lots of people use easypass and everyone speeds. i think it actually states specifically in the easypass contract that they don't use it for that purpose.
to process accounts, they've got to have a database of their customers' toll road usage, which means a database of who is driving with easypass, where, and when. it's not mandated that you have to have one in your car though. still, the roads are not private property and the government can probably get away with enacting any kind of requirement it likes for the privilige of driving on their roads. if they really wanted to crack down on drugs they could make it a requirement to get a hair drug test every 6 months to have a driver's licence.
the technology is there, and there's nothing that can be done about that. the issue is whether it's used for invasive surveillance. at the moment it is not, so i don't really see what the issue is. yeah, the technology exists. so what?
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: wilshire]
#5853860 - 07/13/06 06:33 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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> you already need to present ID to get on commercial aircraft.
I know. It isn't right.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: Seuss]
#5853911 - 07/13/06 07:47 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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> you already need to present ID to get on commercial aircraft.
I know. It isn't right.
You know what else isn't "right"? Having to stand there watching some goon from TSA pat searching a bawling 2 year old over and over...
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
Edited by LunarEclipse (07/14/06 07:18 AM)
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: LunarEclipse]
#5854602 - 07/13/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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my drivers license has my fingerprints on it.
it sucks caving in and getting one... you know...
some patriot I am.
hope i can at least have the sense to do something like leave the nation of things get pretty out of the hand and mark of tbe beast-ish.
it's alot easier to take your mark though 
the only thing tha tbothers me is just that the nation is not entirely trustworthy, like if drugs were legal i wouldn't really care if they had my fingerprints as "crime prevention" is a good idea... it's just that any and every wacky little thing is a crime..... i throw away an empty weed bag thinking "this has my fingerprints, and my fingerprints are stored with the DMV....." then i think "what the fuck, that's the most paranoid thing ever..."
i dunno.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (07/13/06 12:55 PM)
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TheDude
is waiting forthe peak

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 2,876
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: musicturkey]
#5856122 - 07/13/06 09:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- "this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: leery11]
#5856997 - 07/14/06 04:31 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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> my drivers license has my fingerprints on it.
Fingerprints or fingerprint (many or one)? Are you certain that it actually stores the print itself, or simply a "value" that your print creates. Almost all fingerprint verification technology stores a "one way" value for the fingerprint rather than the actual print. By one way, I mean you can create the value from the print, but you cannot reverse/create a print from the value.
> You know what else isn't "right"? Having to stand there watching some goon from TSA pat searching a
They can put in all the security they like. I don't even mind the scanners that look through clothing. I don't mind them doing what it takes to keep bombs and weapons off of mass transit systems, but they have no right to require passengers to "prove who they are". What does it matter who I am if you know that I have no weapons as long as I am not entering the country.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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PurpleKush
Rational Lunatic


Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 3,421
Loc: Above The Law
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: wilshire]
#5857104 - 07/14/06 06:20 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said: (5) A digital photograph of the person.
ive heard of facial recognition systems, and ive noticed lots of cameras at intersections and they're not the kind that issue tickets, we've only got a few of those here. what are these cameras for if not surveillance? the government already has a picture of us to match us if we get a driver's license. i heard somewhere that London is already using a system like this.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: Seuss]
#5857179 - 07/14/06 07:09 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't mind them doing what it takes to keep bombs and weapons off of mass transit systems
After the shoe bomber, it's "Take off your shoes and place them in a tray"
If we have a butt bomber, it will be "Bend over and spread 'em". Of course, you won't mind...
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: PurpleKush]
#5857375 - 07/14/06 08:48 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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we've only got a few of those here. what are these cameras for if not surveillance? the government already has a picture of us to match us if we get a driver's license. i heard somewhere that London is already using a system like this.
A system is being introduced nationwide in the UK of tracking and storing every car journey in the country. It's typical of Blair who must be the most authoritarian "leader" the UK has ever had.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: LunarEclipse]
#5857476 - 07/14/06 09:37 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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> If we have a butt bomber, it will be "Bend over and spread 'em". Of course, you won't mind...
Be careful. Insinuating that I don't mind being sodomized is a borderline flame that I don't appreciate. If you do not have something to add to the debate, kindly keep your thoughts to yourself.
> A system is being introduced nationwide in the UK of tracking and storing every car journey in the country.
I know nothing about this, but if true, it is a great example of what bothers me... we no longer have the right to be anonymous.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Microcosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: Seuss]
#5857483 - 07/14/06 09:40 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Time to go live in the woods me thinks.
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Microcosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: LunarEclipse]
#5857486 - 07/14/06 09:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said: If we have a butt bomber, it will be "Bend over and spread 'em". Of course, you won't mind...
You cannot vouch for the motives of his buttox!
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buckwheat
Cynically Insane

Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 11,179
Loc: Not Enough Characters to ...
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: musicturkey]
#5857493 - 07/14/06 09:46 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Starting in August all passaports will have RFID chips.Unfortunatly it might be too late for renewal and still getting an old one.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/13/pf/rfid_passports/index.htm
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013akilper

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 1,761
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: buckwheat]
#5857520 - 07/14/06 09:56 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > you already need to present ID to get on commercial aircraft.
I know. It isn't right.
how is this not right? if a company wants to know who you are before they let you on their multi million dollar air craft thats their right. if you dont like it learn to fly and get your own airplane
Quote:
buckwheat said: Starting in August all passaports will have RFID chips.Unfortunatly it might be too late for renewal and still getting an old one.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/13/pf/rfid_passports/index.htm
i dont really see this as being that big of a problem either.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: Seuss]
#5857556 - 07/14/06 10:21 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Be careful. Insinuating that I don't mind being sodomized is a borderline flame that I don't appreciate. If you do not have something to add to the debate, kindly keep your thoughts to yourself.
What does the possibility of future cavity searches at airport security based on someone bringing a bomb in their butt have to do with you not minding being sodomized? I didn't insinuate anything, you reached the sodomy conclusion from who knows where.
You responded to my pat search comment by saying you didn't mind what they did at airport security, and I responded to your response.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Microcosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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Re: National Identity Cards [Re: LunarEclipse]
#5857559 - 07/14/06 10:24 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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You said:
Quote:
Of course, you won't mind...
That's what he was talking about. Perhaps if you explain what you meant by that...
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