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lonestar2004
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Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations
#5846148 - 07/11/06 08:52 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations
INDIATIMES NEWS NETWORK & AGENCIES The blasts occurred at Khar, Matunga, Santa Cruz, Jogeshwari, Borivili and Bhayendar railway stations. Early reports said eight people had died and many were injured.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/
Who would do such an awful thing???????
Poor Youts????
Mad Methodists????
Seventh Day Adventists????
Freedom fighters???
The Amish????
Blue eyed Irish nuns????
Mother Theresa's sisters????
I can't,for the life of me,figure out who it could be.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Trepiodos
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations [Re: lonestar2004]
#5846199 - 07/11/06 09:21 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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If the blasts came from objects dropped from 30,000 feet, it would probably be a government. If the blasts came from ground level, chances are it would be coming from free-lancers aspiring to unleash the same destructive forces as 'legitimate' agencies. If only eight people have died, it's obviously the work of amateurs. Probably some nut-jobs who blabber nonsense similar to such claims as "God speaks through me," or "I'm driven with a mission from God" or "I feel God's words coming to me, Go get the Palestinians their state."
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And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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Basilides
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations [Re: lonestar2004]
#5846212 - 07/11/06 09:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Pakistani nationalists, probably
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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lonestar2004
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations [Re: Trepiodos]
#5846247 - 07/11/06 09:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trepiodos said: If only eight people have died, it's obviously the work of amateurs. Probably some nut-jobs who blabber nonsense similar to such claims as "God speaks through me," or "I'm driven with a mission from God" or "I feel God's words coming to me,
So you are saying Hindus????
MSNBC: India police say now 130 dead, 400 wounded. MSNBC Mumbai correspondent saying that local news media is calling for calm, but reporter claims that there is a "panic" in parts of the city.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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The_Red_Crayon
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations [Re: lonestar2004]
#5846282 - 07/11/06 10:03 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Maybe Naxalites?
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lonestar2004
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
#5846296 - 07/11/06 10:08 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Would Communist Murder hundreds of innocent people on a train? j/k
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Trepiodos
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations [Re: lonestar2004]
#5846395 - 07/11/06 10:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said: So you are saying Hindus????
No.
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And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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lonestar2004
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations [Re: Trepiodos]
#5846552 - 07/11/06 11:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Fox news.
INDIA REPORTS ARRESTS OF ISLAMIC TERRORISTS IN DEADLY TRAIN BOMBINGS
Damn! I was sure it was the Blue eyed Irish nuns.....
I wonder how the Hindus rounded up the usual suspects so quickly??? Do Hindus use Torture? Hope they did not trace any cell phones....
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Basilides
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations [Re: lonestar2004]
#5846570 - 07/11/06 11:32 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I bet the Hindus will retaliate by burning down a bunch of homes with Muslim families inside, as it usually goes in Indian sectarian clashes.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Hank, FTW
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations [Re: Basilides]
#5846600 - 07/11/06 11:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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We need more of these people in our countries, NOW!
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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lonestar2004
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations [Re: Basilides]
#5846624 - 07/11/06 11:50 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Basilides said: I bet the Hindus will retaliate by burning down a bunch of homes with Muslim families inside, as it usually goes in Indian sectarian clashes.
Damn Hindus - can't get along with anyone.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Trepiodos
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations [Re: lonestar2004]
#5846627 - 07/11/06 11:50 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said: Damn! I was sure it was the Blue eyed Irish nuns.....
I wonder how the Hindus rounded up the usual suspects so quickly??? Do Hindus use Torture? Hope they did not trace any cell phones....
Perhaps, they have photographic evidence, perhaps there were eyewitnesses. Perhaps the Indians engage in targeting of specific individuals in their investigations.
Good police work is possible without torture, I am not aware of any criminal justice education or studies that tell us that torture is an essential tool of criminal investigation.
Logic would tell us that tapping the personal messages of all Indians would not have led to such a quick response, just as similarly tapping all electronic communications in the U.S. would be useless in tracking down a few individuals in the U.S. ...if that is what you are alluding to.
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And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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Basilides
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations [Re: lonestar2004]
#5846648 - 07/11/06 11:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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India has a long bloody history of Muslim vs Hindu, with the odd Sikh in there
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Trepiodos
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway stations [Re: Basilides]
#5846661 - 07/11/06 12:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Dogmatic minds are not prone to novel solutions.
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And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: Trepiodos]
#5847190 - 07/11/06 02:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Imagine.....Muslims using violence
I have heard that there have been 8 blasts.....body count likely to rise........ Of course Pakistan "condemns" the attack (they must have the same political training as the Palestinians)
I wold love to see India, wipe Pakistan off the map.....their military would walk over the Pakistanis in a matter of weeks.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Hank, FTW
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5847254 - 07/11/06 02:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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lollerskates.....they are bother nuclear capable, militaries wouldn't be walking over shit.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: Hank, FTW]
#5847277 - 07/11/06 02:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
alpharedecho said: lollerskates.....they are bother nuclear capable, militaries wouldn't be walking over shit.
Bullshit.
Even if a tactical nuclear weapon was used, you still would need a conventional force. Plus they have be skirmishing over Cashmere forever....why no nukes?
The USA is nuclear capable, why didn't we nuke IRAQ?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Trepiodos
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5847393 - 07/11/06 03:19 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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It would be very difficult to send men into cap the oil wells and then rebuild the topping plants and other processing facilities to prep the oil for market. More difficult than it is now with Iraqis opposing the occupation and taking pop shots at their 'liberators.' Having your workers constantly keeling over from radiation sickness is not good for production.
Now if you only want to lay waste to the land in order to keep people out of it, it's another story. The value of Iraq, however, lies in it's natural resources.
ANYONE who promotes the laying to waste of a country, which is not a threat, with nuclear weapons (the most destructive and indiscriminate weapons in modern arsenals) is on the same moral level as the Islamic terrorists.
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And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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quiver
freedrug


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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: Trepiodos]
#5847438 - 07/11/06 03:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i'd be speaking japanese if it wasn't for those men with 'morals like islamic terrorists' sight seeing in the enola gay
hahaha who am i kidding,i wouldnt exist
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: Trepiodos]
#5847499 - 07/11/06 03:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trepiodos said: It would be very difficult to send men into cap the oil wells and then rebuild the topping plants and other processing facilities to prep the oil for market. More difficult than it is now with Iraqis opposing the occupation and taking pop shots at their 'liberators.' Having your workers constantly keeling over from radiation sickness is not good for production.
Now if you only want to lay waste to the land in order to keep people out of it, it's another story. The value of Iraq, however, lies in it's natural resources.
ANYONE who promotes the laying to waste of a country, which is not a threat, with nuclear weapons (the most destructive and indiscriminate weapons in modern arsenals) is on the same moral level as the Islamic terrorists.
My point was that nuclar capable countires, will still sustain military operations regardless. The fact remains that Indias army would in fact destroy Pakistans in weeks
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Trepiodos
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: quiver]
#5847508 - 07/11/06 04:00 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
quiver said: i'd be speaking japanese if it wasn't for those men with 'morals like islamic terrorists' sight seeing in the enola gay
hahaha who am i kidding,i wouldnt exist
Why would you be speaking Japanese? Would your parents have moved to Japan were it not for the radiation? Or why wouldn't you exist? Was sex between your parents contingent upon the use of nuclear weapons? Japan was defeated, they had been driven back. Japan was willing to surrender with conditions, the U.S. wanted unconditional surrender. The funny (or not) thing is that after they surrendered, we allowed them the conditions that they wanted.
However, you miss the point entirely. Iraq never attacked the U.S. Iraq had no capabilities to harm the U.S. I said, Quote:
ANYONE who promotes the laying to waste of a country, which is not a threat, with nuclear weapons (the most destructive and indiscriminate weapons in modern arsenals) is on the same moral level as the Islamic terrorists.
--------------------
And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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quiver
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: Trepiodos]
#5847542 - 07/11/06 04:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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japan was on its way here to bomb/attack our women and children while our men were in europe,the US destroyed them in the pacific ocean there were starving jap soldiers raping and pillaging their way down to us through indonesia they bombed darwin and were trying to poison our dams they deserved what they got and yes,the conditions they got sucked.we should be living in japan now,fuck knows how they turned that one around
iraq wasnt a threat? 'bring it on,this will be the mother of all wars'...who said that again?
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Trepiodos
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: quiver]
#5847557 - 07/11/06 04:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Japan was different than Iraq, and as I stated previously, Japan was already driven back, they were defeated and willing to surrender. Iraq was not a threat. I have cut and pasted the following from another thread. Perhaps you could enlighten us with infromation that would prove that Iraq was a threat to the U.S. ...
1) Tell us about Iraq's air force, it's long range bombers, payloads and available munitions. Tell us about their fighter aircraft and helicopters.
2) Tell us about Iraq's navy, including troop carriers, submarines, aircraft carriers and battle ships.
3) Tell us about Iraq's ICBMs their range, payload, and warheads.
4) Tell us about Iraq's modern army, the number and kind of tanks they used, targeting systems training and weapons.
5) Tell us about Iraq's brilliant military minds and how they single handedly defeated Iran in a matter of days.
6) Compare the above with U.S. forces, Israeli forces, British forces, Chinese forces, Russian forces.
7) Lastly, tell us how Iraq's military capabilites had improved in comparison to the above nation's forces since the start of the first Gulf War, after over a decade of sanctions and daily air sorties by the U.S.
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And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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quiver
freedrug


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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: Trepiodos]
#5847618 - 07/11/06 04:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i can tell you about the kurds...mustard and nerve gas but it seems al-jazeera.co m has convinced you otherwise there's really no point in trying to change my mind,i know a few iraqi families,actually grew up with them(they were refugees for some reason,something to do with being christian they told me)...stick to bullshitting kids,i spose its better than killing them outright
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: Trepiodos]
#5847731 - 07/11/06 05:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trepiodos said: Japan was different than Iraq, and as I stated previously, Japan was already driven back, they were defeated and willing to surrender. Iraq was not a threat. I have cut and pasted the following from another thread. Perhaps you could enlighten us with infromation that would prove that Iraq was a threat to the U.S. ...
1) Tell us about Iraq's air force, it's long range bombers, payloads and available munitions. Tell us about their fighter aircraft and helicopters.
2) Tell us about Iraq's navy, including troop carriers, submarines, aircraft carriers and battle ships.
3) Tell us about Iraq's ICBMs their range, payload, and warheads.
4) Tell us about Iraq's modern army, the number and kind of tanks they used, targeting systems training and weapons.
5) Tell us about Iraq's brilliant military minds and how they single handedly defeated Iran in a matter of days.
6) Compare the above with U.S. forces, Israeli forces, British forces, Chinese forces, Russian forces.
7) Lastly, tell us how Iraq's military capabilites had improved in comparison to the above nation's forces since the start of the first Gulf War, after over a decade of sanctions and daily air sorties by the U.S.
You are missing the point. No one doubts how silly Iraq's former military force was (with exception to the units close to Saddam) I remember seeing the Iraqis still using T-72 tanks when we took over Baghdad.......the threat of Saddam was his capability AND willingness to abed and help potential terrorists fight UNCONVENTIONAL warfare. Eliminating his regime is one of many steps that needed to take place. To bad we did not conduct he war properly.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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quiver
freedrug


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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5847758 - 07/11/06 05:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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#6 is a dead giveaway
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The_Red_Crayon
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5847797 - 07/11/06 05:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree that Saddam needed to be liquidated, however their are many despotic nations that could abade and help terrorists, Chechnya,Bosnia,North Korea,Pakistan,Iran and other rouge states.
Saddam had been pretty much neutralized and relegated to the area surrounded by no fly zones.
Saddam by the late 90's was 1/10th of its original size after it got done with the Iran war and desert storm and the shiite and kurdish revolts, it left Saddam in a very weakened state. The only way Saddam could hold leverage over his country was acknowleding he had WMD's or itleast not telling people he didnt have them.
This was PR to keep neighbor Iran from ever launching attacks on Iran.
I think the situation with Iraq is much more deadly now, if not on a level of attrition but on the amount of resources committed to Iraq and that is being expended at a massive rate, 20 or 30 billion something dollars just to repair Vehicles.
I dont think economically the US and its economy could handle Iraq for another 3 or 4 years.
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
#5847877 - 07/11/06 05:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not sure I agree...... with how much money is being spent in Iraq currently....why is the US economy in a position of strength right now?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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The_Red_Crayon
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5848701 - 07/11/06 09:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: I'm not sure I agree...... with how much money is being spent in Iraq currently....why is the US economy in a position of strength right now?
It maybe in a position of strength, economically speaking, but the money that is earmarked for military is budgeted, and if the budget is exceeded then they need to find the money some other way (IE. cutting social programs and other things)
To me i think that all the spending we are doing right now, and things to come like natural disasters, Politics always being local will sometime, like Vietnam have a massive "Iraqification" if you will to bring the troops home
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RosettaStoned
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: quiver]
#5849808 - 07/12/06 03:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
japan was on its way here to bomb/attack our women and children while our men were in europe
Is it just me or is that total bullshit? We didn't send our men to europe until AFTER pearl harbor. How was japan "on its way here" again? I remember watching a H channel show, where one of the japanese generals was talking about invading america, and one of the other men at the meeting countered his idea by saying "If you invade america you will find a rifle behind every blade of grass". The idea of american invading was quickly dismissed before it got off the ground.
What they did do, however, was strike at our pacific navy fleet to try and keep us out of their area. It was a tactical military strike on our ability to wage sea warfare. There was no "attacking of our women and children" of any sort about to happen, nor would we be speaking japanese in any sort of morbid worst case scenario fantasy you can come up with.
Quote:
soldiers raping and pillaging their way down to us through indonesia
Define "us"? They were going to rape and pillage their way to north america by going through indonesia? How many years was this suppose to take? Or do you mean attack our military stationed in south east asia? If so you shouldn't cast a blanket "us" when referring to the military.
And last but not least.
Quote:
iraq wasnt a threat? 'bring it on,this will be the mother of all wars'...who said that again?
Bravado does not constitute a threat. When standing among the bullies in the school yard one must not come across as weak regardless of how weak they are. You have to show some balls and that was exactly what he was doing in that statement; trying to show some balls.
Iraq was not a threat to a damn thing other than the stock markets cause he had the ability to flood the market with oil or switch his oil from being traded from dollars to euros, which in fact he had planed prior to the war, ironic isn't it?
But I'm not going to sit here and tell you how much of a non-existent threat iraq was because like you said, you mind is already made up. But I just had to point out your knowledge of history could use alot of work, what you know of ww2 and what actually happened are quite different. You should turn on the history channel sometime.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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quiver
freedrug


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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5849815 - 07/12/06 04:07 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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have you ever heard of australia? check it out,we're on the map!
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
#5850151 - 07/12/06 08:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't see how the no-fly zones could have diminished Saddam's regime in any way, they were mostly designed to protect Shi'ites and Kurds.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Hank, FTW
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5850449 - 07/12/06 10:50 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RosettaStoned said:
Quote:
japan was on its way here to bomb/attack our women and children while our men were in Europe
Is it just me or is that total bullshit? We didn't send our men to Europe until AFTER pearl harbor. How was japan "on its way here" again? I remember watching a H channel show, where one of the Japanese generals was talking about invading America, and one of the other men at the meeting countered his idea by saying "If you invade America you will find a rifle behind every blade of grass". The idea of American invading was quickly dismissed before it got off the ground.
What they did do, however, was strike at our pacific navy fleet to try and keep us out of their area. It was a tactical military strike on our ability to wage sea warfare. There was no "attacking of our women and children" of any sort about to happen, nor would we be speaking Japanese in any sort of morbid worst case scenario fantasy you can come up with.
Quote:
soldiers raping and pillaging their way down to us through Indonesia
Define "us"? They were going to rape and pillage their way to north America by going through Indonesia? How many years was this suppose to take? Or do you mean attack our military stationed in south east Asia? If so you shouldn't cast a blanket "us" when referring to the military.
And last but not least.
Quote:
Iraq wasn't a threat? 'bring it on,this will be the mother of all wars'...who said that again?
Bravado does not constitute a threat. When standing among the bullies in the school yard one must not come across as weak regardless of how weak they are. You have to show some balls and that was exactly what he was doing in that statement; trying to show some balls.
Iraq was not a threat to a damn thing other than the stock markets cause he had the ability to flood the market with oil or switch his oil from being traded from dollars to Eros, which in fact he had planed prior to the war, ironic isn't it?
But I'm not going to sit here and tell you how much of a non-existent threat Iraq was because like you said, you mind is already made up. But I just had to point out your knowledge of history could use alot of work, what you know of ww2 and what actually happened are quite different. You should turn on the history channel sometime.
He is from Australia, and we(Canada) like them are part of the commonwealth, which means we are all strong allies with Briton. So shortly after WWII started, most of our troops were in England. That's why if Japan had of left pearl harbor and just focused on the area, Japan would have conquered Australia. With out those A-bombs, Japan would have never surrendered.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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RosettaStoned
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: Hank, FTW]
#5850904 - 07/12/06 01:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well it does not show he is from australia below his name, so I assumed he was referring to north america. How ever, saying without the bomb they wouldn't have surrendered has already been proven wrong. Without the bomb they wouldn't have "unconditionally" surrendered, yes. But like someone has already shown, japan was willing to surrender on terms. Before we dropped the bomb, we had already defeated their navy and had pure air superiority. Japan had already crawled back the mainland for the most part. Except for the few islands were they were dug in. They were in a fully defensive mode, the expansion had ended.
Weather the bomb use was justified depends on your point of view. There is no black and white "we had to use the bomb" kind of thing. Either way, japan was defeated and the war was over. And also has already been pointed out, once they surrendered unconditionally, we then turned around and allowed them conditions.
What I find amusing about ww2's effect on these times, is how people still cling to it like america should still be thanked daily for it. Well for you people who still like to say things like "we'd be speaking german if it wasn't for the usa" I ask you, who left in our govt was around when ww2 actually happened? Who left of our leaders had a hand in stopping the nazis and the japanese?
None. So stop touting ww2 as some reason why america can do no wrong, for the people in power now didn't have a damn thing to do with it. Any past glories that america had from ww2 are long since gone and you can no longer credit the US with bring peace and stability to the world. Most of the world who has peace and stability does so on it's own accord, having a battle fleet there doesn't make it magically because of US protection. For as you can plainly see, people who want to fight will fight no matter how much the odds are against them.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5850918 - 07/12/06 01:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not giving the current administration ANY credit for Americas actions in WWII. I haven't taken much notice to people giving America a free ride due to their past, I see the opposite. Huge criticism from most people. I am from Canada though, so I don't talk to anyone who supports the war.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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RosettaStoned
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: Hank, FTW]
#5850974 - 07/12/06 02:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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ANYONE who promotes the laying to waste of a country, which is not a threat, with nuclear weapons (the most destructive and indiscriminate weapons in modern arsenals) is on the same moral level as the Islamic terrorists.
Then,
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i'd be speaking japanese if it wasn't for those men with 'morals like islamic terrorists' sight seeing in the enola gay
Exactly what I mean. WW2 doesn't have a thing to do with the current conflict in regards to weather nuclear weapons should be considered. And citing the use of them in japan as a means to justify their usage now is absurd.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5850992 - 07/12/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, I could argue that since the choice of the Americans in WWII turned out to be a good one(entering the war, using nukes can be argued about whether it was good or not) maybe their present and future choices will turn out to be good(from the world's perspective). Like you said though, this administration is very different from the one of WWII.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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RosettaStoned
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: Hank, FTW]
#5851156 - 07/12/06 03:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, 5 years after pearl harbor, how many people thought it was set up by the govt? Now how many people think 9/11 was set up by the govt? Major differences there. WW2 was easily viewed as a right and just thing to enter. We were protecting our allies from absolute and utter devastation. We are hardly protecting anyone from utter devastation, in fact we are causing it. (directly or indirectly depending on your perspective)
However, I sincerely would hope that no one here would try to argue the "history will judge us" line. I think we are all more intelligent than that.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: Trepiodos]
#5851758 - 07/12/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trepiodos said: Japan was defeated, they had been driven back. Japan was willing to surrender with conditions, the U.S. wanted unconditional surrender. The funny (or not) thing is that after they surrendered, we allowed them the conditions that they wanted.
False, revisionist history.
Read "Japan's Longest Day" or search some posts on the subject in this forum.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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RosettaStoned
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: d33p]
#5851879 - 07/12/06 07:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Then I guess the history channel is revisionist also? I watched a show called just that "japan's longest day". And they detailed how we had bombed the last of the oil supplies, eliminated their navy and pushed what was left of their military back to the mainland and a few close and well dug in islands. That = driven back.
And I would also wager allowing their much loved emperor to continue to breathe and work to rebuild a new govt is a pretty damn big concession. There were also talking of surrender but the US would not stop short of unconditional.
What part of that again is revisionist?
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: d33p]
#5852225 - 07/12/06 08:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
d33p said:
Quote:
Trepiodos said: Japan was defeated, they had been driven back. Japan was willing to surrender with conditions, the U.S. wanted unconditional surrender. The funny (or not) thing is that after they surrendered, we allowed them the conditions that they wanted.
Bolded to answer your question. I haven't seen that show on THC. Read the book, if you can't be bothered too, search the forum, i dont think the last debate on the subject has been deleted yet. And I actually just deleted the links i used from that debate two days ago when cleaning out my favoirtes folder, oh well.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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trauma47645
The MushroomKing


Registered: 02/09/06
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Loc: Somewhere in this place c...
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: d33p]
#5852262 - 07/12/06 08:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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all those old world, middle eastern, indian continent religions are all useless as far as I am concerned.. all they preach is hate, and intolerance.. all they do is fight.. and all that is obtained is multiple deaths for nothing... Its been going on for thousands of years... Just let that area of the world be and the fighting and killing will help to regulate the skyrocketing population..
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5852278 - 07/12/06 08:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RosettaStoned said: And I would also wager allowing their much loved emperor to continue to breathe and work to rebuild a new govt is a pretty damn big concession. They were also talking of surrender but the US would not stop short of unconditional.
What part of that again is revisionist?
That too(bolded). And bolding "they" in the second sentence was not a mistake.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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RosettaStoned
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: d33p]
#5853468 - 07/13/06 12:40 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Did you have a point?
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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quiver
freedrug


Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 8,047
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5853530 - 07/13/06 01:00 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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well yours doesnt show where you're are from so ill assume your a refugee living in the west hypocrits and racists always presume their enemies are american,they're not the only ones who hate the east bro
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Edited by quiver (07/13/06 01:03 AM)
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RosettaStoned
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: quiver]
#5853555 - 07/13/06 01:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Happy?
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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quiver
freedrug


Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 8,047
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5853596 - 07/13/06 01:30 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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swear on the quran and i might be,hang on,you are allowed to lie under oath with that comic book arent you?
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5853633 - 07/13/06 02:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RosettaStoned said: Did you have a point?
Once when i was four i was taking a bath with Mr. bubbles. It felt really good and i was splashing around having a fun time. Well, i was playing with mr. ducky and i accidently threw him out of the bath tub. After i got mr. ducky, when was getting back into the bath tub i rubbed up against the side of the tub as i was steping over the wall. It felt really strange, kind of like a tickle. When i got back into the tub i noticed something strange: I had a point!
But beside the point, i was only tring to correct a common misconception. I rarely act on these urges anymore in this forum becaause they usually lead nowhere fast but the ww2 one is so grevious in my eyes i always need to respond to it.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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RosettaStoned
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: d33p]
#5855956 - 07/13/06 08:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
But beside the point, i was only tring to correct a common misconception. I rarely act on these urges anymore in this forum becaause they usually lead nowhere fast but the ww2 one is so grevious in my eyes i always need to respond to it.
What exactly was so "grevious"? All you did was bold what I originally said. Which my info is backed up by the history channel. I'm am curious as to what errors you are trying to point out.
And I am asked to swear on the quran??? This is just too funny. If I ran out of toilet paper, I would reach for the quran as a substitute. But since I don't own one I'd reach for the pages out of my bible that I didn't rip out to roll a joint with when I was a teenager. Sorry, but I don't buy into mainstream bullshit.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5856406 - 07/13/06 11:00 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RosettaStoned said:
Quote:
But beside the point, i was only tring to correct a common misconception. I rarely act on these urges anymore in this forum becaause they usually lead nowhere fast but the ww2 one is so grevious in my eyes i always need to respond to it.
What exactly was so "grevious"? All you did was bold what I originally said. Which my info is backed up by the history channel. I'm am curious as to what errors you are trying to point out.
Dropping the bombs and ending the war was one of the best things the USA ever did in its history. I dislike when people try to make it seem like it wasn't. And i bolded what was incorrect as you asked me to point it out. Incorrect as in not true. And if that THC show does supposedly back up what you wrote then you either didn't comprehend the show's contents or the show was a bastardization of the book of the same name. Like i said, read the book or just search the forum on this topic. I have no desire to go into a long debate on the issue for the forth time in two years.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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quiver
freedrug


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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5856661 - 07/14/06 12:34 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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if you dont by into mainstream bs why do you defend YOUR enemies?
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RosettaStoned
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: quiver]
#5858454 - 07/14/06 03:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
quiver said: if you dont by into mainstream bs why do you defend YOUR enemies?
My enimies? What did they do to me?
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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RosettaStoned
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: d33p]
#5858512 - 07/14/06 04:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dropping the bombs and ending the war was one of the best things the USA ever did in its history. I dislike when people try to make it seem like it wasn't.
That is NOT a historical fact. It is your opinion. And I dislike it when people try to pass their opinion off as fact. You seem to want to overlook the fact that japan's ability to wage any offensive warfare was diminished to the point of almost non-existence; which the H channel clearly documented. Like I said in an earlier post here, weather the bomb use was justified is based on your point of view. Weather the war was already won is not based on point of view, it is fact. I'm not outright saying that using the bomb was a mistake, I'm simply pointing out it wasn't "necessary to end the war". Did it shorten it? Perhaps. Did it prevent more loss of american lives? Perhaps, but at what cost? Did we really "need" unconditional surrender from japan? Would surrender with terms not have worked just as well? We'll never know.
It is most certainly not cut and dry as you try to make it. And it is a point which will continue to be debated further for many centuries to come, provided there are still intellectuals left to discuss it.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Phred
Fred's son


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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5858539 - 07/14/06 04:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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You really need to do more research on this than just recalling what you thought you saw on a single television program.
Japan was NOT on the verge of surrender. There is abundant and unassailable documentary proof of this, most of it Japanese. This isn't my opinion (or anyone's opinion, for that matter), this is fact, well supported by records and documents of the time.
There were SOME Japanese who felt like throwing in the towel, true. But they weren't the ones making the decision.
It can be argued Japan was ready to cave after the first bomb was dropped on Hiroshima (although the evidence in support of that claim is at best debatable) and that the second bomb on Nagasaki was overkill. But to argue they were willing to surrender before Hiroshima is to argue against fact.
Phred
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d33p
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5858624 - 07/14/06 04:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RosettaStoned said: That is NOT a historical fact. It is your opinion. And I dislike it when people try to pass their opinion off as fact. You seem to want to overlook the fact that japan's ability to wage any offensive warfare was diminished to the point of almost non-existence; which the H channel clearly documented. Like I said in an earlier post here, weather the bomb use was justified is based on your point of view. Weather the war was already won is not based on point of view, it is fact. I'm not outright saying that using the bomb was a mistake, I'm simply pointing out it wasn't "necessary to end the war". Did it shorten it? Perhaps. Did it prevent more loss of american lives? Perhaps, but at what cost? Did we really "need" unconditional surrender from japan? Would surrender with terms not have worked just as well? We'll never know.
It is most certainly not cut and dry as you try to make it. And it is a point which will continue to be debated further for many centuries to come, provided there are still intellectuals left to discuss it.
It is not my opinion. Read "Japan's Longest Day: The Pacific War Research Society" The most striking information which I'm asuming they withheld from the THC show is what we had no way of knowing about the workings of Japan's government in the final days. Without that information dropping the bombs were damn good decisions for a variety of reasons. In hindsight with that information it was one of the best decisions the US ever made. It is not my opinion.
It is a very good read. You will enjoy it and learn a lot at the same time.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
Edited by d33p (07/14/06 05:04 PM)
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RosettaStoned
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: Phred]
#5860679 - 07/15/06 03:33 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
You really need to do more research on this than just recalling what you thought you saw on a single television program
Nice assumption. I merely stated that was what that one show said, not that it was my only source of information on the subject.
Quote:
Japan was NOT on the verge of surrender
Correction: They were not on the verge of unconditional surrender. They were considering terms to end the hostilities because they were crawling back the mainland on their bellies and had no fuel left for jack shit and no navy left at all. Tell me exactly how they were going to fight us off with a) no fuel b) no navy and c) do so while getting the shit bombed out of you?
Main Entry: un·con·di·tion·al Pronunciation: "&n-k&n-'dish-n&l, -'di-sh&-n&l Function: adjective 1 : not conditional or limited : ABSOLUTE, UNQUALIFIED <unconditional surrender> <unconditional love>
This is what they weren't willing to do, however they were already beaten before the bombs were dropped. When an army has lost the ability to wage war they are beaten it is as simple as that. No matter how you try to pass your opinion off as fact, the facts show they already had gotten their asses kicked. Dropping the bomb was a short cut to save more american lives at the costs of massive japanese casualties. Would more bombing runs on their major cities been enough without dropping the a-bomb? Would a show of force by dropping the a-bomb in a not so populated area have worked? These are serious questions that can be asked. But the fact that the japanese army was beaten back and beaten down is NOT arguable.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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quiver
freedrug


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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5860700 - 07/15/06 03:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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your replies are idiotic they were stealing everything and making pows do all the work for them while at the same time starving and brutalising them to death
are you north korean?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: quiver]
#5861167 - 07/15/06 08:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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No flaming in PAL. Enjoy your one day vacation.
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5861711 - 07/15/06 12:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RosettaStoned said: Correction: They were not on the verge of unconditional surrender. They were considering terms to end the hostilities because they were crawling back the mainland on their bellies and had no fuel left for jack shit and no navy left at all. Tell me exactly how they were going to fight us off with a) no fuel b) no navy and c) do so while getting the shit bombed out of you?
Main Entry: un·con·di·tion·al Pronunciation: "&n-k&n-'dish-n&l, -'di-sh&-n&l Function: adjective 1 : not conditional or limited : ABSOLUTE, UNQUALIFIED <unconditional surrender> <unconditional love>
This is what they weren't willing to do, however they were already beaten before the bombs were dropped. When an army has lost the ability to wage war they are beaten it is as simple as that. No matter how you try to pass your opinion off as fact, the facts show they already had gotten their asses kicked. Dropping the bomb was a short cut to save more american lives at the costs of massive japanese casualties. Would more bombing runs on their major cities been enough without dropping the a-bomb? Would a show of force by dropping the a-bomb in a not so populated area have worked? These are serious questions that can be asked. But the fact that the japanese army was beaten back and beaten down is NOT arguable.
Half of the Supreme War Council and most of the foreign office and envoys wanted to end the war, even unconditionally, but they had no way of doing so. But you don't understand a damn thing about what was happening in the japanese government in August 1945, do you?
They were not crawling back to the mainland. They were saving, amassing, and waiting for the final battle in which many expected to fight till the last man. Much of the Japanese military idolized Okinawa and were hoping the battle for the mainland if needed would be fought as honorously. But, half of the supreme war council did not expect this would even need to happen. They actually believed that the usa would allow Japan to retain its government and independence if it were clear that the cost of a mainland invasion would be too high. Coupled with this, they knew the Americans would not want the soviets overtaking all the land in the Asian mainland that the Japanese had conquered and they thought this would also lead to their chance at independence.
No fuel, are you fucking kidding me? Who fed you this load of bullshit? The Japanese had all the aviation gasoline on the home islands in august they needed for ketsu-go. The japanese were planning to send about 5,000 suicide aircraft at the expected american invasion fleet. They were not expecting to win, they only expected to make victory so hard and costly that the americans would decide to just allow them to have independence. Most other vechicles that required fuel were modified to run on pine root oil(they even started making jet fuel from this, its quite interesting) and alcohol. And they didnt give a fuck about a navy, they lost the sea battle, but they were still expecting to stalemate the battle of Japan.
Main Entry: jack·shit Pronunciation: "jack-shit" Function: noun 1 : what Rosettastone knows about how the imperial japanese government operated: nothing, nada <Rosettastone knows jackshit about VJ-day>
They had not lost their ability to wage a defensive war. Their stockpiles and twisted core beliefs about honor were all that they needed to resist the invasion. The war needed to end to prevent monumental loss of life in an invasion and to prevent the soviets from over running most of mainland asia. Even with both a-bombs and the last raid, Japan may still have refused surrender or the coup may have succeded had it not been for translators in the foreign office intentionally mistranslating the formal note of surrender and the byrnes reply. You have no idea how close the war was to not ending. But the fact remains, as evidenced in JLD, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the turning point for Hirihito's position on surrender.
Read the god damn book or you will continue to think all of these things that are completely fucking wrong. I take it you are afriad of learning something new or to find out you were wrong about this?
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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RosettaStoned
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: d33p]
#5862399 - 07/15/06 05:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
With the capture of Saipan, Japan was finally within range of B-29 bombers.
The Japanese had prepared a rigorous defense and used the last of their naval forces in a failed attempt to destroy the invasion force in the Battle of Leyte Gulf
Throughout 1944, American submarines and aircraft attacked Japanese merchant shipping and deprived Japan's industry of the raw materials it had gone to war to obtain. The effectiveness of this stranglehold increased as U.S. Marines captured islands closer to the Japanese mainland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II#Pacific_Theatre_3
I guess I shouldn't have said "no fuel". But they had little of it compared to the US. What the H channel show had pointed out about the fuel situation, was that we bombed their major fuel depot on the mainland and sunk their last ocean going tanker coming to resupply. Thus they were very hard pressed in the fuel department and a few more well placed B2 runs and there wouldn't have been anything left to be effective at even kamazee.
All of their bases were within B2 bombing range, how long would it have taken to deprive them of the planes they had left? Look, we all know they were willing to fight to the last man. I'm not denying this. All I'm saying is that there are facts that show the japanese ability to fight was greatly diminished and in some cases non-existent. Bombing them into submission with conventional bombs was not out of the realm of possibility.
And yes I also know about their war counsel and most of them did not want to surrender under our terms. But eventually they did didn't they? Because of the a-bomb. Like I said, it was a shortcut to end the war. Any other means of ending the war would have taken longer. But I am inclined to believe that conventional bombing could have had the same effect given some time. Not to mention dropping the a-bomb in a less populated area would certainly had made it clear we could drop one in tokyo. Which would have had the same result without the massive slaughter.
But I guess this subject is quite old so we are beating the dead horse so to speak. The a-bombs usage will always be remembered as what we did to end the war to save more american lives. It's necessity and their choice of targets will continue to be a point of debate weather certain people want to deny that or not.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5862611 - 07/15/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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If we destroyed all of their gas, all of their planes, and all of their buildings they still would have fought for their honor. There was no short supply of army officers and infantry who were prepared to launch a coup. You know Churchill's speech about fighting the Nazis in England, think that but in Japanese as their slogan.
And you need to realize how important time was in the situation, you continue to disregard it as a factor. The US were not prepared to allow the USSR to over run all of Asia. It was central to the cause of ending the war as soon as possible.
And no one on the supreme war council nor Hirohito expressed grave concern over the first atom bomb. NO ONE DID A SINGLE THING FOR 2 DAYS AFTER THEY KNEW HIROSHIMA WAS DESTROYED. No meetings, no nada. These are the things you would know if you read JLD. The book makes it pretty clear that the destruction of both cities by atomic bombs played a huge role in Hirohito's decisions. What can be debated is how much the bombs weighed on the men in the army. Lets say, even if Hirohito would have wanted to surrender if they did drop both for show or only one(which i seriously doubt), maybe the coup would have then succeeded. Maybe the coup would have succeeded without the last raid. Who knows? What we do know is that the abombs were needed to end the war then and there which was absolutely necessary.
We killed more civilians firebombing tokyo and other cities than the deaths attributed to both the a-bombs blasts and their radiation... wtf are you talking about? If anything the abombs may have saved japanese lives because a mainland invasion would have definitely resulted in more dead japanese and arguably continued conventional bombing to stop the war would have killed more japanese.
seriously, read the book.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: Tuesday terror: Six blasts rock Mumbai railway statio, as long as it furthers there cause....ns [Re: d33p]
#5862993 - 07/15/06 08:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ok, guys. Back on topic. If you wanty to discuss Japan during WWII, please create another thread.
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