|
Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
|
A Few Good Men
#5845956 - 07/11/06 06:48 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
You want the truth? You cant handle the truth! 
Jesus, Murdered! Ghandi, Murdered! Prabupada, Murdered!
When will we learn?
--------------------
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Sinbad]
#5846024 - 07/11/06 07:48 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Ronald Regan... wounded. 
Remember when that environmentalist shot George W. Bush in the leg? Perhaps if he had been a hunter, he could have hit him with a kill shot. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
|
|
Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Remember when that environmentalist shot George W. Bush in the leg? Perhaps if he had been a hunter, he could have hit him with a kill shot. 
 Peace.
no i don't. wtf
it depends on what kind of truth worker you are. if you want to save the whole world or a large portion of people and you do it overtly, then society will have some backlash against you.
if you just work on inviduals that's different.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
|
Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
|
|
The truth puts fear into those who thrive off ignorance. Its a threat becuase we might stop taking our soma!
--------------------
|
Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: leery11]
#5846432 - 07/11/06 10:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Exactly. The stupidest thing Jesus ever did was display his powers in public.
--------------------
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Sinbad]
#5846542 - 07/11/06 11:25 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I doubt that. Here we are, thousands of years later, and you are referring to him. I wonder why exactly that is? 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Sinbad]
#5846573 - 07/11/06 11:33 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sinbad said: Exactly. The stupidest thing Jesus ever did was display his powers in public.
Buddha was not, according to popular belief and consensus, persecuted, and yet his way is just as sound, if not sounder. Perhaps it is because he did not use his powers?
Did Jesus use powers, was he a real teacher? Or is he a story? The problem with Jesus is the religion about him relies soley on the existence of him and his powers...... whereas the existence of the Buddha does not matter, for his teachings are sound, simple, practical, and down to earth.
Many of Christ's are as well, everything to do with love, but they are COMPLETELY shrouded within a dogmatic system that bases all its faith on the validity of miracles. It isn't so much important to love your neighbor according to the faith, as it is to believe that Jesus was complete HOLY in human form......
if it was found out that he did not exist, or was not GOD incarnate..... I think the religion would fall apart......
Buddhism seems so much more skeptical, agnostic, and practical to me.... people can be dogmatic with it.... but it seems like whether or not the Buddha was or wasn't, the teachings are.
This can be said of Jesus, but not so much of his faith.
You're right though.... a man that can save your spirit without showing you a single miracle is more valuable than a man who has to part the sea for you to believe...... or as Jesus said.... good for those who believe without seeing.
if Jesus was the savior of all of mankind of course it makes complete sense that he had to be persecuted.... that he gave his life so that we could live eternally...... without having to do much for it.
But that's dogma.
Maybe spaghetti is God and whoever eats of it shall taste of the Kingdom... or maybe mushrooms are God........ I mean dogma can explain anything. to be safe eat mushroom spaghetti.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (07/11/06 11:36 AM)
|
Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
|
|
Look at all the things that have been done in his name becuase of his fame!
If jesus came back today, he'd puke his gutts up seeing all that is being done and has been done in his and his fathers name.
IMHO he could have kept his powers to himself and instructed only those who were ready for to accept his teachings, without the need of miraculous confirmation. Then maybe he would have lived longer, taught more people, and perhaps even passed on his lineage of teaching through disciple succession, to preserve the original teachings throughout time. Instead he was murdered, and his teachings were partially corruped and used by the romans for there own selfish, power hungry desires.
This is assuming of course that jesus did in fact exist. 
Anyway thats just my 2 cents
--------------------
|
leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Sinbad]
#5846594 - 07/11/06 11:41 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
if he had such powers maybe such things wouldn't have been done? Maybe they were compiled by the doers so that such things could be done?
Many atrocities for Christ..... little for Buddha, Tao....... lots of Judaism and Islam.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
|
BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Sinbad]
#5847024 - 07/11/06 01:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Good men die young.
|
Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Sinbad]
#5847319 - 07/11/06 03:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sinbad said: Look at all the things that have been done in his name becuase of his fame!
If jesus came back today, he'd puke his gutts up seeing all that is being done and has been done in his and his fathers name.
IMHO he could have kept his powers to himself and instructed only those who were ready for to accept his teachings, without the need of miraculous confirmation. Then maybe he would have lived longer, taught more people, and perhaps even passed on his lineage of teaching through disciple succession, to preserve the original teachings throughout time. Instead he was murdered, and his teachings were partially corruped and used by the romans for there own selfish, power hungry desires.
This is assuming of course that jesus did in fact exist. 
Anyway thats just my 2 cents
The Christ is the one who descends into the Sea of Samsara, to those who are lost in ignorance and cannot ask the questions that will make them free. And he offers them a cup of cold water in Christ’s name.
in another thread, you said " But if you begin to insult a teacher because of your lack of understanding of his actions, then the only fault lies with your own point of view. Because as practitioners of Vajrayana know, there is no need to raise fault, as all judegment is related to our own attitudes, considerations of point view, and what kind of vision we have. When you judge someone based on your own preconceived ideas, that is an action based upon nothing but ignorance. "
perhaps jesus did exactly what he needed to do in order to reach the people he intended to reach?
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
|
|
"Good men die young." Well then I am glad to be a contrary son of a bitch.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Sinbad]
#5847572 - 07/11/06 04:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sinbad said: You want the truth? You cant handle the truth! 
Jesus, Murdered! Ghandi, Murdered! Prabupada, Murdered!
When will we learn?
they're all still around, dreaming their crazy dreams, and fulfilling the promises they made to their followers, and reaping the rewards for their sacrifices.
You think those fascist bully-boys can defeat God's greatest warriors by killing their bodies? 
They just come back with a chip on their shoulder, with more resolve to set the people of this planet free from hatred, bigotry, and unwarranted desire.
|
Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Deviate]
#5847593 - 07/11/06 04:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Your correct, i should not have said that his actions were stupid. I only want to point out that his actions had dire consequences not only for the maintenance of his oringinal teaching, but for his own physical body as well. I doubt very much that jesus intended for many of his teachings to be lost, restricted, corrupted and used as tools for the power hungry to control the masses. This is not a preconcieved idea, this is history, this is what has happened to his teachings and this is what has been done in his name.
Im not raising any faults with Jesus himself, or the essential message of his teachings, im merely saying that performing miracles in public is not a very good idea if you want to stay alive and teach as many people as possible, whilst retaining the oringinality and essence of your teaching. This isnt a consideration of point view, or an attitude i hold myself. Its an actual fact that society doesnt look so kindly upon influential teachers who can upsurp the power of a controling government by demonstrating miracles.
Jesus managed to reach alot of people through his teachings, but its a fact that the bible has been corrupted and many of his words lost through the passage of time. Im only suggesting that perahaps if Jesus had passed his teachings on quietly in disciplic successsion, much of his original teachings might still be around today, and perhaps it would have been more difficult for people to use/abuse chistianity in the wrong way.
--------------------
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: leery11]
#5847622 - 07/11/06 04:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
leery11 said: if he had such powers maybe such things wouldn't have been done? Maybe they were compiled by the doers so that such things could be done?
Many atrocities for Christ..... little for Buddha, Tao....... lots of Judaism and Islam.
Let's face it , this is not about truth. It's just about the fact that Budha is easier to digest, because he doesn't come on so strong. It's a question of what is "easy listening"
Truth and a lie follow the law of relativity. The further they are each appart the more the otherone seems like a lie, in a way both are lie and both are truth depending on where you are at the moment. But to a steady observer only one is truth. Problem is people can't be steady for a second.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: leery11]
#5847660 - 07/11/06 04:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
leery11 said: if he had such powers maybe such things wouldn't have been done? Maybe they were compiled by the doers so that such things could be done?
Many atrocities for Christ..... little for Buddha, Tao....... lots of Judaism and Islam.
yeah, I've never heard of a militant taoist. Until I met myself, that is
|
Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
|
|
Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:
leery11 said: if he had such powers maybe such things wouldn't have been done? Maybe they were compiled by the doers so that such things could be done?
Many atrocities for Christ..... little for Buddha, Tao....... lots of Judaism and Islam.
Let's face it , this is not about truth. It's just about the fact that Budha is easier to digest, because he doesn't come on so strong. It's a question of what is "easy listening"
Thats not true at all! The Buddha's teachings are so true to home on so many levels that alot of people just dont want to know, let alone digest. Imagine living your whole life believing very much in the soliditiy and "reality" of this world, only to be told that everything (just as you suspected deep down) is like an illusion, like a dream! Now if thats not a threat to our materialisticly driven societal conditioning, i dont know what is!
--------------------
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Sinbad]
#5847746 - 07/11/06 05:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
has anyone eaten psylocybe spaghettiana. or maybe alfredo or even bouillabaisse with a nice shroom base.
--------------------
_ 🧠_
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
|
Mmmmm...I want to come over to your house for dinner!
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Sinbad]
#5847794 - 07/11/06 05:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sinbad said:
Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:
leery11 said: if he had such powers maybe such things wouldn't have been done? Maybe they were compiled by the doers so that such things could be done?
Many atrocities for Christ..... little for Buddha, Tao....... lots of Judaism and Islam.
Let's face it , this is not about truth. It's just about the fact that Budha is easier to digest, because he doesn't come on so strong. It's a question of what is "easy listening"
Thats not true at all! The Buddha's teachings are so true to home on so many levels that alot of people just dont want to know, let alone digest. Imagine living your whole life believing very much in the soliditiy and "reality" of this world, only to be told that everything (just as you suspected deep down) is like an illusion, like a dream! Now if thats not a threat to our materialisticly driven societal conditioning, i dont know what is!
Not the general audience. Most folks don't care about any of these teachings, but those seeking spirituality like shroomers, mostly easier digest Budha because he doesn't limit them.
It's simple really: one guy tells you you can do whatever you want, the other guy tells you you can't have sex any ways you like it, you can't do this or do that, and you have to believe in a lot of crazy stuff he said.
So naturally people turn to the guy that doesn't tell them what to do.
The savage beast in us seeks freedom no matter the cost, and that beast dominates us most of our lives. So naturally a message that you should shoot the savage beast in the head for safety of your own self sounds like an attack on yourself, because peopel can't see beyond that savage beast.
I'm not saying budhism is less advanced. In fact I'd say you first have to digest Jesus before you can go to Budhism, because its harder to understand. But most people I've abuse budhism to justify their own little addictions and fetishes.
I think all these religions have their place.
Judaism is like entry level: teaches you humility, selfrespect, obedience, order, strenght
Jesus is the next step: after you have learned all those things, you recieve some mercy, the god goes soft on you because you have learned that you don't deserve it just because you exist. So now you learn love, peace, giving, harmony etc.
After you learned the Jesus step you live in perfect harmony with the world
The next step is to build something on top of that steady platform
This is where budhism comes in: its a lesson of what what you can do from potatoes and wooden sticks if you already have them. It teaches us to discover our potential after we learned to live what Jesus taught us.
I don't think anyone can skip each of these steps
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
|
I don't think you have studied Buddhism. Not only does it pre-date Jesus, the Bible, and include all of the same core teachings, it also provides actual methods to use in order to accomplish the ideals proposed therein.
By contrast, Biblical "teachings" are contradictory, erratic, repressive and easily (mis?)interpreted to validate intolerance and bigotry.
There is nothing contained in the teachings of Jesus which was not already covered (and then some) in the teachings of Buddha.
(BTW, sexual misconduct is a big Buddhist no-no, as anyone who has studied Buddhism can tell you.)
The eight-fold path: http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.html#Right_View
Quote:
right action means
1. to abstain from harming sentient beings, especially to abstain from taking life (including suicide) and doing harm intentionally or delinquently.
2. to abstain from taking what is not given, which includes stealing, robbery, fraud, deceitfulness, and dishonesty.
3. to abstain from sexual misconduct.
Positively formulated, right action means to act kindly and compassionately, to be honest, to respect the belongings of others, and to keep sexual relationships harmless to others.
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Veritas]
#5847834 - 07/11/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Biblical teachnings are only contradictory to those who don't understand them
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Sinbad]
#5847837 - 07/11/06 05:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sinbad said:
Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:
leery11 said: if he had such powers maybe such things wouldn't have been done? Maybe they were compiled by the doers so that such things could be done?
Many atrocities for Christ..... little for Buddha, Tao....... lots of Judaism and Islam.
Let's face it , this is not about truth. It's just about the fact that Budha is easier to digest, because he doesn't come on so strong. It's a question of what is "easy listening"
Thats not true at all! The Buddha's teachings are so true to home on so many levels that alot of people just dont want to know, let alone digest. Imagine living your whole life believing very much in the soliditiy and "reality" of this world, only to be told that everything (just as you suspected deep down) is like an illusion, like a dream! Now if thats not a threat to our materialisticly driven societal conditioning, i dont know what is!
my sentiments too, but I wonder if he is saying that whatever path you follow you get to the same truth anyway, since truth is truth.
Christ's teachings have a lot of paralell with Buddha's, it's just that we don't have access to them in such scope..... for instance judge not let ye be judged worse...... karma in action is it not?
The Gospel of Thomas seems to expound on the noble truth of suffering, he says that whoever looks at the world and sees death instead of life, he is saved......
i will come back to this thread in a bit. tai chi time. [which to Dr J is food for thought, i wonder if taoists use tai chi for martial purposes or just completely defensively..... taoists probablly aren't as paficifistic as Buddhists but I need to research this, I have no clue]
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: leery11]
#5847861 - 07/11/06 05:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
All I'm saying is Jesus asks of you to believe a lot of "strange" things, like the end of the world, angels, beings, and whatnot People can't chew that so they turn to beliefs that don't say anything about those things.
Jesus story seems hard to believe, and that's how people seek truth: they turn to that which is closest to them: which they can imagine and make sense of. Even scientists do that
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
|
"An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." "Turn the other cheek."
"Love thy neighbor" "Be ye not yoked with unbelievers"
Yes, no contradictions there. 
It is a standard Christian cop-out to say that Biblical quotes are not meant to be taken literally, and then apply them literally when it suits their purpose. The next cop-out is "you just have to have faith," very similar to "they are only contradictory to those who do not understand them."
|
MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Veritas]
#5847885 - 07/11/06 05:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
"The other cheek for an eye, turn for a tooth." "Be ye not thy neighbor. Love with unbelievers."
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Veritas]
#5847888 - 07/11/06 05:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Bible is a long story of how god tried to raise human beings. Did your father use the same methods on you when you were 2 years old and 13?
Plus there is one other thing. bible was writen by human beings, stupid, ignorant human beings. So to understand Christianity and Judaism, you have to see through that stupidity, just as you can construct a story by listening to childs silly talk.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
|
But why bother wading through it when the core principles are available in Buddhism? If you look at what is proposed by the eight-fold path, you will see that the same guidelines are proposed by the Bible, only they are obscured by archaic language and assorted human bullshit.
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Veritas]
#5847934 - 07/11/06 06:06 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Veritas said: But why bother wading through it when the core principles are available in Buddhism? If you look at what is proposed by the eight-fold path, you will see that the same guidelines are proposed by the Bible, only they are obscured by archaic language and assorted human bullshit.
Because some things which could be very important are not covered in Budhism. budhism talks a lot about principles, thinking, living etc. But Judaism and other religions mention creation, apocalipse, gods etc. Real world material things, which if true would have giant impact on what we know about earth and life on earth. These are things we can't ignore, because they have too much importance, maybe they are not true, but they are worth considering.
Just take revelations for example. Imagine the implications if all of that is in fact what people like Phil Schneider have been talking about. That's something you can't find in Budhism
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
|
Quote:
That's something you can't find in Budhism
Yes, that is exactly what I was saying. Why wade through all of that immature, fear-based BS when you can cut to the chase and read about spiritual ideals and practices which can have an impact on your life now?
The apocalypse? Creation? Gods? What possible good does reading about these myths accomplish? If anything, they distract us from taking full responsibility for our life.
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Veritas]
#5847990 - 07/11/06 06:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
The good that comes from reading those myths depends on their truth. If they are untrue then there is no good, if they are true, then not reading them is living in ignorance
Apocalipse is fear-based only if you are afraid of it. It is also hate-based of you have hate in your heart. If you are a farmer, it's a harvest, and if you are a lawyer it's a formal judgement.. it really depends on how your mind works.
The fact is you don't know wheather these are just myths or something real. But it seems to me you have already made up your mind.
As much as they sound unlogical to you, that much they sound logical to me. So obviously it can work either way. Either that or I am less intelligent than you?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
|
Quote:
Apocalypse
1. the imminent destruction of the world and the salvation of the righteous.
2. Great or total devastation; doom: the apocalypse of nuclear war.
How is this not fear-based? The myth of the apocalypse states that the world will be destroyed and the chosen few will be scooped up by God just in time. 
What is to be learned through reading about this, assuming that it is true...that "we'd better watch out, we'd better not cry, better not pout, I'm tellin' you why...the Apocalypse is coming to town?" 
Where is the logic? Where is the practical application? It seems more like a Bogeyman story to me. 
I'm not saying that I know what is true, but some ideas seem much more plausible than others.
|
capliberty
Stranger


Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Veritas]
#5848129 - 07/11/06 06:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
they don't exist
let me not add, I'm glad the old generation as simple and character driven as they were, are being weeded out by mericless but nessary evolutionary process,
can't take these old value driven, idological conservative b.s. plaguing society, trying to define morality through their view, to suit their every funking whim,
Edited by capliberty (07/11/06 06:57 PM)
|
dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
|
In Buddhism there are a number of Gods and other deities. However, none of them are considered to be inherently existent. They are just like us: dependently arisen mere appearances. In fact, in many myths it is said that the Gods must reincarnate as humans in order to fully awaken to Reality.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Veritas]
#5848163 - 07/11/06 06:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Ok, you say, what is to be learned assuming it to be true? Well the day comes and god starts destroying everything, and believers start asking themselfs, what have we done wrong, why is he punishing us? This way, they know it in advance and don't have to ask these questions, because gods intentions are clear
And as for fear. Why should a christian that follows Jesus be afraid of that day? He doesn't care about anything material that is going to be destroyed, and he is not afraid to leave his family, and he himself will not be harmed. Where is there room for fear? Plausibility has nothing to do with truth. Every truth is found plausible by a number of people and not plausible by an equal number of other people.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: dblaney]
#5848183 - 07/11/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
dblaney said: In Buddhism there are a number of Gods and other deities. However, none of them are considered to be inherently existent. They are just like us: dependently arisen mere appearances. In fact, in many myths it is said that the Gods must reincarnate as humans in order to fully awaken to Reality.
Which goes perfectly well with the nature of angels in Judaism and Christianity. They are like spoiled children, have unlimited power, but lack the wisedom gained through suffering as a human.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
|
god starts destroying everything
Is this the god that's created in man's image? This certainly doesn't sound like the loving, forgiving god I've heard so much about. I have a feeling the concept of the apocalypse is a metaphor, perhaps for the total annhilation of all conceptualizations and intellectualizations of reality, rather than a literal statement of the end of the world.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
|
Dogmatic (and maybe metaphorical?) myths throughout almost all religions bear striking similarities to each other. Coincidence? I think not. I say don't take anything for granted, and try to find out for yourself whether or not any of the myths bear any truth.
Question everything!
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: dblaney]
#5848229 - 07/11/06 07:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
dblaney said: god starts destroying everything
Is this the god that's created in man's image? This certainly doesn't sound like the loving, forgiving god I've heard so much about. I have a feeling the concept of the apocalypse is a metaphor, perhaps for the total annhilation of all conceptualizations and intellectualizations of reality, rather than a literal statement of the end of the world.
You think like a mammal: if you love me, hug me, give me milk, and pet me, if you don't hit me
Apocalipse is not a revenge. It's a harvest. A good farmer loves his plants, but in time he cuts them down and tekes the fruit, and seeds other plants. Killing something doesn't mean you don't love it. A farmer throws away weeds, but that doesn't mean he regrets doing this kind of job. You can't think of god-human relationship like a replationship between parents and kids. But more like that of a farmer and plants, or an engineer and machines. People tend to look at religion far to emotionally.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
|
Indeed, the idea of reality as being cyclical is quite plausible, and another fine example of a mythology incorporating this idea is in Hinduism, where at the end of a great many eons, Shiva dances a very special dance, and the entire universe is consumed with fire.
Logic tells me that existence is without beginning and without end. However, science says that our universe had a finite spacio-temporal start point, and it probably will have an end point. This is certainly in accord with the idea of a cyclical universe.
Or perhaps our universe is part of a multiverse and it appears to arise, abide, and cease just like everything else in existence.
The concept of Shiva, however, must be recognized as one in which a natural force is personified. There isn't actually a being referred to as 'Shiva', rather the nature of reality is impermanence, and Shiva is the personified form of the principle of cessation or destruction.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: dblaney]
#5848302 - 07/11/06 07:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I think you are aiming too high, the end of universe really doesn't concern humans in any way because it's so far away.
I think apocalipse is about god, or bierded aliens or whatever comming to fry earth, clean it up and plant new life.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: dblaney]
#5848341 - 07/11/06 07:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: All I'm saying is Jesus asks of you to believe a lot of "strange" things, like the end of the world, angels, beings, and whatnot People can't chew that so they turn to beliefs that don't say anything about those things.
Jesus story seems hard to believe, and that's how people seek truth: they turn to that which is closest to them: which they can imagine and make sense of. Even scientists do that
I agree with that. The problem with religion is one does not know, therefore they follow.
If one knows, one is beyond religion. This is why I like Buddhism, because it's trying to get you to know..... rather than follow. It's as loose as possible, and encourages skepticism.....
now Jesus may have encouraged the same if the gnostic gospels are more accurate (and all I've read is Thomas) but the way the Christian religion is working, is simply as a religion. Lots of followers, lots of believers, few experiencers.
How does one attain liberation by being a Christian? Liberation in the NOW, tangible, measurable liberation.... fulfilment of holy spirit?
Pester God a long time... saying "come on man, transform me already!" Is it not a journey? If it's a journey is it not the same as all journeys?
Are the deities so vain that they only have one iteration, one name, one process, and anyone viewing them the other way is wrong? Are the deities not open ended, flexible, and accepting.... ready to nustle you into the right path if you choose the wrong one?
If Christianity isn't right.... there's a ton of bad karma behind it! I don't like all this fear baggage. In some ways it is transformative though.
and as you said, some people's truths are not other people's truths, so is someone that can't digest the Bible wrong? If so, isn't it inevitable that if they care, if they are seeking, they will come back to it eventually ? (2 different questions)
it's kind of like someone who builds model rockets teaching you how to fly a space-ship, and truely believing he knows how.
teachers should only teach that which they know, not that which they suppose, or are deluded into thinking they know.
so if someone knows Jesus by way of holy spirit and has attained marked transformation, they should teach. Otherwise in fact the blind are truely leading the blind.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (07/11/06 07:34 PM)
|
capliberty
Stranger


Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: dblaney]
#5848398 - 07/11/06 07:45 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Or perhaps our universe is part of a multiverse and it appears to arise, abide, and cease just like everything else in existence.
This is fact already, thats why the universe makes no sense really, we're one universe in an infinite amount of universes, in fact the universe is a symbol of infinity but yet still fails to give an accurate picture, we with human cognitive thinking, we can conceptualize a 3 dimensional universe, the 4th being time, but even if you had the human capability, which humans do, to understand the 5th and 6th dimension as it exists in reality, such dimensions define reality as an object in which the universe is defined including space and time, we can view the all encompassing universe from the restrictions of space or time, as one single object, meaning everything is all encompassing to one object, view the universe beyond space or time, one would see the beginning and the end, but the universe would be meaningless to the observer, well it is to certain degree, and is why I think ego death occurs, that when ones mind has evolved and they experienced ego death they are frightened by the rapid change of meaning, the body is naturally repulsed to this existence, because it no longer holds the same revelance to their current state of existence, he transcends beyond the normal plane of existence, which then he becomes a part of that universe more or less as a function, for he dissolved and evolved beyond that universe, for the universe is held on nothing more than tangible concepts that pertain to that universe, as the current meaning dissolves your true being evolves and dissolves at the same time, you no longer live in a physical spectrum that pertains to that universe, for physicality is only defined by interpretation of his senses that relate him to this universe, then if interpretation has been altered his whole entire conception of the universe has been changed, such as everyday concepts like, time, strength, patience, fear, intelligence, compassion. All these concepts will be revolutionized, meaning time doesn't exist, and it can't help you, for there has to be a relevant arbitrary point for time to matter which our universe is that arbitrary point, and with all these concepts will have no meaning, in a way life means everything and it means nothing,
this is why we can conceptualize hallucinations, because their is a plane of existence that resides in same plane of existence but is not voided due to any 3 dimensional boundaries but due to level of consciousness, conceptualizing dimensions beyond 3, good hallucinations are a result of mental leaps of consciousness, as one becomes aware of the true nature of reality,
Edited by capliberty (07/11/06 09:56 PM)
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Sinbad]
#5848938 - 07/11/06 10:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sinbad said: Look at all the things that have been done in his name becuase of his fame!
Nah, if it wasn't Jesus' teachings, it would have been something else. People can always come up with excuses and reasonings to justify their behavior, and readily do so. None of that shit pertains to his actual teachings, and it doesn't make sense to say that, perhaps if he hadn't brought them forth, we would have been better off... it wasn't his reaction.
Quite honestly, considering all of the bullshit that his teachings were responsible for, his teachings were most effective in revealing oppurtunities for the growth of our human race.
If you say to someone else that you painted your kitchen, and the other person starts screaming and tipping shit over because, to them, they interpret this as a threat to themselves, then it is senseless to state that either you shouldn't have painted your kitchen or told them that you did. In doing so, an error in the manner in which they are operating has been expressed, thus, the oppurtunity for growth has been revealed.
Really fucking tired, so that wasn't exactly coherent, but ya'll can fuck yourself! 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
|
Quote:
fireworks_god said: Remember when that environmentalist shot George W. Bush in the leg?
Doesn't anyone else remember that? 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
|
Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: I think you are aiming too high, the end of universe really doesn't concern humans in any way because it's so far away.
I think apocalipse is about god, or bierded aliens or whatever comming to fry earth, clean it up and plant new life.
Ok, then just put in 'the end of earth' instead of 'the end of the universe' in my post
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
Psilocybeingzz


Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
Loc: International waters
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: leery11]
#5851576 - 07/12/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Remember when that environmentalist shot George W. Bush in the leg? Perhaps if he had been a hunter, he could have hit him with a kill shot.
You must mean GW senior, right?
Anyways, I wish he would have poped his head open, like a grape under presure.
|
Schwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
|
Edited by Schwammel (07/12/06 07:21 PM)
|
capliberty
Stranger


Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Schwammel]
#5851724 - 07/12/06 06:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah my names George "W" Bush, I'm fighting for "freedom",
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
|
Quote:
Psilocybeingzz said: You must mean GW senior, right?
Nope.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
Schwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
|
whats this all about...
"The former US president George Bush was among more than a thousand mourners who turned out at a memorial service for Ken Lay, the disgraced former chairman of Enron, who died last week." ...
I suppose its ok to steal
|
|