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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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I don't think you have studied Buddhism. Not only does it pre-date Jesus, the Bible, and include all of the same core teachings, it also provides actual methods to use in order to accomplish the ideals proposed therein.
By contrast, Biblical "teachings" are contradictory, erratic, repressive and easily (mis?)interpreted to validate intolerance and bigotry.
There is nothing contained in the teachings of Jesus which was not already covered (and then some) in the teachings of Buddha.
(BTW, sexual misconduct is a big Buddhist no-no, as anyone who has studied Buddhism can tell you.)
The eight-fold path: http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.html#Right_View
Quote:
right action means
1. to abstain from harming sentient beings, especially to abstain from taking life (including suicide) and doing harm intentionally or delinquently.
2. to abstain from taking what is not given, which includes stealing, robbery, fraud, deceitfulness, and dishonesty.
3. to abstain from sexual misconduct.
Positively formulated, right action means to act kindly and compassionately, to be honest, to respect the belongings of others, and to keep sexual relationships harmless to others.
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Veritas]
#5847834 - 07/11/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Biblical teachnings are only contradictory to those who don't understand them
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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leery11
I Tell You What!

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Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Sinbad]
#5847837 - 07/11/06 05:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sinbad said:
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OldWoodSpecter said:
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leery11 said: if he had such powers maybe such things wouldn't have been done? Maybe they were compiled by the doers so that such things could be done?
Many atrocities for Christ..... little for Buddha, Tao....... lots of Judaism and Islam.
Let's face it , this is not about truth. It's just about the fact that Budha is easier to digest, because he doesn't come on so strong. It's a question of what is "easy listening"
Thats not true at all! The Buddha's teachings are so true to home on so many levels that alot of people just dont want to know, let alone digest. Imagine living your whole life believing very much in the soliditiy and "reality" of this world, only to be told that everything (just as you suspected deep down) is like an illusion, like a dream! Now if thats not a threat to our materialisticly driven societal conditioning, i dont know what is!
my sentiments too, but I wonder if he is saying that whatever path you follow you get to the same truth anyway, since truth is truth.
Christ's teachings have a lot of paralell with Buddha's, it's just that we don't have access to them in such scope..... for instance judge not let ye be judged worse...... karma in action is it not?
The Gospel of Thomas seems to expound on the noble truth of suffering, he says that whoever looks at the world and sees death instead of life, he is saved......
i will come back to this thread in a bit. tai chi time. [which to Dr J is food for thought, i wonder if taoists use tai chi for martial purposes or just completely defensively..... taoists probablly aren't as paficifistic as Buddhists but I need to research this, I have no clue]
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: A Few Good Men [Re: leery11]
#5847861 - 07/11/06 05:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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All I'm saying is Jesus asks of you to believe a lot of "strange" things, like the end of the world, angels, beings, and whatnot People can't chew that so they turn to beliefs that don't say anything about those things.
Jesus story seems hard to believe, and that's how people seek truth: they turn to that which is closest to them: which they can imagine and make sense of. Even scientists do that
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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"An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." "Turn the other cheek."
"Love thy neighbor" "Be ye not yoked with unbelievers"
Yes, no contradictions there. 
It is a standard Christian cop-out to say that Biblical quotes are not meant to be taken literally, and then apply them literally when it suits their purpose. The next cop-out is "you just have to have faith," very similar to "they are only contradictory to those who do not understand them."
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Veritas]
#5847885 - 07/11/06 05:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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"The other cheek for an eye, turn for a tooth." "Be ye not thy neighbor. Love with unbelievers."
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Veritas]
#5847888 - 07/11/06 05:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Bible is a long story of how god tried to raise human beings. Did your father use the same methods on you when you were 2 years old and 13?
Plus there is one other thing. bible was writen by human beings, stupid, ignorant human beings. So to understand Christianity and Judaism, you have to see through that stupidity, just as you can construct a story by listening to childs silly talk.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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But why bother wading through it when the core principles are available in Buddhism? If you look at what is proposed by the eight-fold path, you will see that the same guidelines are proposed by the Bible, only they are obscured by archaic language and assorted human bullshit.
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Veritas]
#5847934 - 07/11/06 06:06 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Veritas said: But why bother wading through it when the core principles are available in Buddhism? If you look at what is proposed by the eight-fold path, you will see that the same guidelines are proposed by the Bible, only they are obscured by archaic language and assorted human bullshit.
Because some things which could be very important are not covered in Budhism. budhism talks a lot about principles, thinking, living etc. But Judaism and other religions mention creation, apocalipse, gods etc. Real world material things, which if true would have giant impact on what we know about earth and life on earth. These are things we can't ignore, because they have too much importance, maybe they are not true, but they are worth considering.
Just take revelations for example. Imagine the implications if all of that is in fact what people like Phil Schneider have been talking about. That's something you can't find in Budhism
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
That's something you can't find in Budhism
Yes, that is exactly what I was saying. Why wade through all of that immature, fear-based BS when you can cut to the chase and read about spiritual ideals and practices which can have an impact on your life now?
The apocalypse? Creation? Gods? What possible good does reading about these myths accomplish? If anything, they distract us from taking full responsibility for our life.
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Veritas]
#5847990 - 07/11/06 06:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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The good that comes from reading those myths depends on their truth. If they are untrue then there is no good, if they are true, then not reading them is living in ignorance
Apocalipse is fear-based only if you are afraid of it. It is also hate-based of you have hate in your heart. If you are a farmer, it's a harvest, and if you are a lawyer it's a formal judgement.. it really depends on how your mind works.
The fact is you don't know wheather these are just myths or something real. But it seems to me you have already made up your mind.
As much as they sound unlogical to you, that much they sound logical to me. So obviously it can work either way. Either that or I am less intelligent than you?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
Apocalypse
1. the imminent destruction of the world and the salvation of the righteous.
2. Great or total devastation; doom: the apocalypse of nuclear war.
How is this not fear-based? The myth of the apocalypse states that the world will be destroyed and the chosen few will be scooped up by God just in time. 
What is to be learned through reading about this, assuming that it is true...that "we'd better watch out, we'd better not cry, better not pout, I'm tellin' you why...the Apocalypse is coming to town?" 
Where is the logic? Where is the practical application? It seems more like a Bogeyman story to me. 
I'm not saying that I know what is true, but some ideas seem much more plausible than others.
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capliberty
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Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Veritas]
#5848129 - 07/11/06 06:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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they don't exist
let me not add, I'm glad the old generation as simple and character driven as they were, are being weeded out by mericless but nessary evolutionary process,
can't take these old value driven, idological conservative b.s. plaguing society, trying to define morality through their view, to suit their every funking whim,
Edited by capliberty (07/11/06 06:57 PM)
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dblaney
Human Being

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In Buddhism there are a number of Gods and other deities. However, none of them are considered to be inherently existent. They are just like us: dependently arisen mere appearances. In fact, in many myths it is said that the Gods must reincarnate as humans in order to fully awaken to Reality.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: A Few Good Men [Re: Veritas]
#5848163 - 07/11/06 06:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ok, you say, what is to be learned assuming it to be true? Well the day comes and god starts destroying everything, and believers start asking themselfs, what have we done wrong, why is he punishing us? This way, they know it in advance and don't have to ask these questions, because gods intentions are clear
And as for fear. Why should a christian that follows Jesus be afraid of that day? He doesn't care about anything material that is going to be destroyed, and he is not afraid to leave his family, and he himself will not be harmed. Where is there room for fear? Plausibility has nothing to do with truth. Every truth is found plausible by a number of people and not plausible by an equal number of other people.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: A Few Good Men [Re: dblaney]
#5848183 - 07/11/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: In Buddhism there are a number of Gods and other deities. However, none of them are considered to be inherently existent. They are just like us: dependently arisen mere appearances. In fact, in many myths it is said that the Gods must reincarnate as humans in order to fully awaken to Reality.
Which goes perfectly well with the nature of angels in Judaism and Christianity. They are like spoiled children, have unlimited power, but lack the wisedom gained through suffering as a human.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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dblaney
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god starts destroying everything
Is this the god that's created in man's image? This certainly doesn't sound like the loving, forgiving god I've heard so much about. I have a feeling the concept of the apocalypse is a metaphor, perhaps for the total annhilation of all conceptualizations and intellectualizations of reality, rather than a literal statement of the end of the world.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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dblaney
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Dogmatic (and maybe metaphorical?) myths throughout almost all religions bear striking similarities to each other. Coincidence? I think not. I say don't take anything for granted, and try to find out for yourself whether or not any of the myths bear any truth.
Question everything!
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: A Few Good Men [Re: dblaney]
#5848229 - 07/11/06 07:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: god starts destroying everything
Is this the god that's created in man's image? This certainly doesn't sound like the loving, forgiving god I've heard so much about. I have a feeling the concept of the apocalypse is a metaphor, perhaps for the total annhilation of all conceptualizations and intellectualizations of reality, rather than a literal statement of the end of the world.
You think like a mammal: if you love me, hug me, give me milk, and pet me, if you don't hit me
Apocalipse is not a revenge. It's a harvest. A good farmer loves his plants, but in time he cuts them down and tekes the fruit, and seeds other plants. Killing something doesn't mean you don't love it. A farmer throws away weeds, but that doesn't mean he regrets doing this kind of job. You can't think of god-human relationship like a replationship between parents and kids. But more like that of a farmer and plants, or an engineer and machines. People tend to look at religion far to emotionally.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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dblaney
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Indeed, the idea of reality as being cyclical is quite plausible, and another fine example of a mythology incorporating this idea is in Hinduism, where at the end of a great many eons, Shiva dances a very special dance, and the entire universe is consumed with fire.
Logic tells me that existence is without beginning and without end. However, science says that our universe had a finite spacio-temporal start point, and it probably will have an end point. This is certainly in accord with the idea of a cyclical universe.
Or perhaps our universe is part of a multiverse and it appears to arise, abide, and cease just like everything else in existence.
The concept of Shiva, however, must be recognized as one in which a natural force is personified. There isn't actually a being referred to as 'Shiva', rather the nature of reality is impermanence, and Shiva is the personified form of the principle of cessation or destruction.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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