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OfflinePowerTrip
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I fear I spend an unhealthy amount of time contemplating reality
    #5843802 - 07/10/06 06:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not sure when this crossed the line from a hobby to an obsession. I have been into Buddhism for a few years now, but within the past year, after my mushroom trips, I have become obsessed with contemplating reality and consciousness. In the past weeks it seems to have taken on a more dominant role in my daily thought process. I just started using marijuana again on the weekends, but mostly for religious purposes. The last time I smoked and listened to Jedi Mind Tricks I began seriously considering some alien conspiracy version of reality. I continued reading theories on it the following day and I actually thought that it could be a possibility. Although I have always been the type of person who is open to new ideas, in the past I never would have driven myself to paranoia over a simple conspiracy theory. Am I driving myself to insanity here? For the first time in my life I feel that I understand how people can go "insane." The scary part is that I don't even necessarily think that these "insane" people are wrong. Maybe it is the sane who are simply living a life of ignorant bliss.

Another piece of information that I forgot to share. Smoking weed seems to send me over the edge lately, and I enjoy it very much. It gives me the most abstract thoughts concerning what may be the ultimate truth. This past weekend when I smoked I think I realized that I may not want to know the ultimate truth. I got a glimpse of what it may be, and it scared me to death so I dismissed the thought immediately as a paranoid delusion.


--------------------
I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life


Edited by PowerTrip (07/10/06 07:02 PM)


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InvisiblePenguarky Tunguin
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Re: I fear I spend an unhealthy amount of time contemplating reality [Re: PowerTrip]
    #5844085 - 07/10/06 08:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yep.  :grin:

Thats the feeling I get when I thought I experienced the ultimate truth.  Pure terror.  But I think the terror is how far in the opposite direction we are from it.  That's the horror!  We are all so down the wrong path it's not even funny.  And physicists are trying to find the theory of everything, muhahaahahaha!!!!!


--------------------
Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.


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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Re: I fear I spend an unhealthy amount of time contemplating reality [Re: PowerTrip]
    #5844377 - 07/10/06 09:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Sounds like you're taking your self way to seriously.


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OfflineNewbieS
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Re: I fear I spend an unhealthy amount of time contemplating reality [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #5844602 - 07/10/06 09:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Life is life. It is what you see; it's all we're programmed to see. Live it up, love it, leave no corner untouched and be the best person you can be,


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Offlineleery11
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Re: I fear I spend an unhealthy amount of time contemplating reality [Re: Newbie]
    #5846065 - 07/11/06 08:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

as for conspiracy theories, I realized they could all be true.

so i decided to take the face level approach of reality.

althoughhhh i kind of deny the existence of such things such as North Korea trying to laucnh missles and whatnot.

I'm just like "whatever, that's just fear mongering" because I believe if I don't let it freak me out by habitually avoiding all news sources (which I always do but unfortunately somehow I heard about this event) then I won't be generating bad energy which will fuel wars.

I think if no one watched news we wouldn't be going to wars anymore.... people would be like "STFU.... we don't care..." and the government would be like "damn"

i'm not sure what i'm getting at except, have you just tried existentialism? Reailty is what you want it to be, but you don't get "control" until you start waking up.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineLion
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Re: I fear I spend an unhealthy amount of time contemplating reality [Re: leery11]
    #5847219 - 07/11/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"hooooooome, hoooome on the range...." *harmonica* "where the deeeer, and the antelope plaaaaaaay"

--Ken Kesey (sort of)


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: I fear I spend an unhealthy amount of time contemplating reality [Re: leery11]
    #5848386 - 07/11/06 07:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
althoughhhh i kind of deny the existence of such things such as North Korea trying to laucnh missles and whatnot.

I think if no one watched news we wouldn't be going to wars anymore.... people would be like "STFU.... we don't care..." and the government would be like "damn"






:confused:


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: I fear I spend an unhealthy amount of time contemplating reality [Re: eligal]
    #5848500 - 07/11/06 08:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

eligal said:
Quote:

leery11 said:
althoughhhh i kind of deny the existence of such things such as North Korea trying to laucnh missles and whatnot.

I think if no one watched news we wouldn't be going to wars anymore.... people would be like "STFU.... we don't care..." and the government would be like "damn"






:confused:



i know it's a bit contradictory. they only succede in their wars because we are fed fear by the news.....

but they could launch wars in secret if we didn't pay attention to the news, either.

i just mainly mean people should not watch tv news at all.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineBooby
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Re: I fear I spend an unhealthy amount of time contemplating reality [Re: PowerTrip]
    #5849642 - 07/12/06 01:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

PowerTrip said:
I realized that I may not want to know the ultimate truth. I got a glimpse of what it may be, and it scared me to death so I dismissed the thought immediately as a paranoid delusion.




Basic reality is composed of a few essentials and their related technologies: Food, & the related technologies of production, processing. Shelter, which is basically fiber (insulation) & the related technologies that turn fibers into shelter. Bathing, bathroom and laundry facilities & their related technologies. And then comes Entertainment and Medical (& their related technologies)

Related technologies include heating & cooling, fields such as chemistry and the technology that supports it such as fiber for lab-coats, glass etc. Crop production includes metallurgy, machining and such ( until more advanced methods are devised)

Here's the trick: If you are not directly involved in one of these basic fields of essentials & their related technologies then you fall into the category of 'Entertainment'.

It is NOT necessary to have a religious belief other than as an entertainment. It is NOT necessary to have children, to have sex, or get married. It is NOT necessary to be fervently Republican or Democrat.

If you are not involved directly in the essential fields and their related technologies then you are fair game in the 'Entertainment' category, and that can get scary.

So if you find yourself at loose ends remember to provide the essentials to someone like an aged parent etc. and involve yourself in the essential technologies and you'll save yourself from being a victim in the category of 'Entertainment'.
-------------

File this under Esoteric Mumbo-Jumbo.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


Edited by Booby (07/12/06 02:53 AM)


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Offlinejohnuk
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Registered: 06/13/05
Posts: 226
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: I fear I spend an unhealthy amount of time contemplating reality [Re: PowerTrip]
    #5852280 - 07/12/06 08:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

PowerTrip said:
I'm not sure when this crossed the line from a hobby to an obsession.




[this is too long for me to check it for mistakes]

I was just about to make a post very similar to this one. I haven't been maxing out on shrooms. I reduced two plants to enhanced cookies recently and have been eating my way through them. But I can feel large elements of my mind changing. Pretty much every week I have some kind of 'revelation' moment.

My dad died when I was 10. It wasn't so much a sad thing but a massive wake up alarm to me. I realised that my dad had gone from being there to just disappearing into thin air. And realistically, it didn't make any difference to the world. For around a decade or so, already, I've been considering ideas like religion and what my consciousness might be (got me onto ideas like immortality, AI and transhumanism).

Having to grow up in the house I did, minus a parent and with a brother to act like a semi-parent for, mind numbing depression and thinking about suicide is pretty normal stuff.

The recent changes in my mind have approach a level where I'm now starting to wonder if I might be approaching the edge, and that I could go wrong if I'm not careful. I read lots of science, tonnes of it - so I have puddles of knowledge about a whole tapestry of different topics (from neurology through to quantum tools). The changes in my mind feel almost as if they're trying to pull the puddles together into something. Like you said you can understand how people can go insane, I'm now wondering if this is some sort of nirvana I can feel approaching - some inherent understanding of the flow of things. It's either something like that or I'm literally going to go crazy at some point.

One idea I've been enjoying recently was thinking about who I am - particularly after I just finished reading Phillip K Dick's 'A Scanner Darkly' (Seriously excellent book, as is Ubik - read them!). I realised a little while ago that, as Shakespere said, we (as the people we interact with) are players, characters, plot lines in a story. We have our core, where are dreams and desires eminate from. Over the top of that, we accumulate our personality like clutter. We kind of mistake our personalities for something special and precious. In reality, it's something that creeps up on us without us realising. Each time we interact with another, we add another facet to it, an interconnection with the other individual. Once that occurs, it kind of encourages our personality to solidify over our core. What's important to realise is that each time we interconnect with another, there is a ruleset established (the first few seconds thing) for how those personalities will interact - like a protocol. Those rules limit how we think we should interact with one another - literally like a computer protocol.

People say that you only really bloom into a person, get your head sorted, after two or three decades of life. What's actually happening is that over this time, the web of interactions becomes so immense and complex that we become fixed into one, rigid set of protocols for our character - "he wouldn't do that, it's not like him", "I'm so suprised at you!". If you're not careful, this rules set like concrete and for the majority of the population they seem impossible to remove. In fact, virtually everyone seems to get lost in the web of how they should interact - they got lost in this character that's slowly crept up on them with each interaction, the core of them becomes hidden.

Occasionally, people will emerge from their character for a few seconds and realise what's going on. Why are they still being nice to that guy who's routinely rude to them? Why haven't they done what they wanted to yet? Why do they have all this junk around them that they never really wanted in the first place? It's their character, they've become so lost in it that they just act it out in the story, very roughly guided by their core desires and dreams.

One thing that constantly reminds me of this is my neighbour. In reality, I'm a super polite guy - I hate making people feeling upset. Our neighbour, on the otherhand, has continually accused me of doing things like damaging her property and lying, none of which I've ever done. I've taken this from her for my entire life, inside I want to turn around and just tell her to fuck right off. It's not like I'd be jumping to conclusions, I've known her for two decades plus (she doesn't remember my name - unfortunately, I remember a lot about her family, including her name). But the clutter that has become 'me', my personality, means that something is jamming the words from coming out of my mouth. The web of interactions is so dense and complex that trying to pick it apart is next to impossible. You try and try to change an element of it, but unless you can get all the copies of that interaction that you've made with other people, when you remake those interactions at some later point you slide back into those rulesets, and the few interactions you managed to change are reset back to the originals - you go back to the way your character was before. People like to think they can just swap out bits of their character, extrovert style. The sad fact of reality is that it just doesn't happen like that - particularly if the environment doesn't change at the same time, since that's a big part of the web too.

People see each other skin deep. Expressions on faces, body profiles and so forth. Their characters project out onto these surfaces and we only ever seem to interact at this level. Everyone get's tricked into believing their own and each other's characters in the story - like some kind of dream or drone like existence, playing a game of what we can and can't do according to those rulesets.

This really hit me just tonight actually when I had some kind of minor flashback, dream, vision, revelation, episode or something, I can't describe it, in bed. All this clutter around me. Who the fuck created it all? Who did that while I wasn't looking? It was the clutter that was my personality, the guy who clicks buy and stores all that shit away thinking that something might come of it some day - hoping it's maybe a step closer to some of those core desires and dreams, the clutter is the expression of my character, an automatic shit collecting collection of clutter it's self.

Another realisation was that characters have a preset profile for existence in this story, there are only so many ways they can exist. This is because the character is built up in our brain, and our brain wants to try to use the character like a tool to accomplish it's desires and dreams. So there are a few ways for things to go...

1.) the core is happy to remain in it's character since it functions well enough to achieve at least short term desires and dreams (no one alive has everything they want - that's just plain bs). This also occurs if the cores dreams and desires aren't particularly far reaching - e.g. the person isn't very smart. This type of character will persevere for probably the entirity of the core's lifespan. These characters are usually also self centering, they take from others on a regular basis to get closer to their goals.

2.) the character is just about good enough to make it through the day, and so the core crawls along with the character day by day, dragging it's self through it's 'overly' strict ruleset - giving more than it takes in an attempt to create a group wide gain towards the goals.

3.) the character completely fails. and I think this is what happened to me tonight. my character just doesn't do what I want it to. I hate the rulesets that are 'me' to other people. who am I? it's literally as if I'm projecting some kind of hologram of someone else infront of me, unknowingly. If anyone has managed to read this far you're probably thinking "not me, I'm who I want to be around other people". I think you'll find if you look more carefully, you're not. And you're probably a million miles from what your core actually wants to be.

I feel as if I've woken up to some kind of truth. Everyone has that hologram, their character. It's not them, it's a distortion of their core, some kind of optical trick that's been created as their core has interacted with other's under an environment of certain pretences (you must do this, doing the other is wrong - ettiqute). Sex with family members for instance. Genetically wrong. With contraceptins that's a totally null arguement, but it still disgusts our holograms and their rulesets.

I no longer feel like my projected character, I don't want to know it or even be connected with it's name - hearing 'my name' annoys me. My name was the name of the character I helped reflexively generate. I don't know what to call myself anymore, or if I even really need a name, I just exist and experience in time and space - a particularly complex reflex to the time and space I exist in. A reflex that's complex enough to fool even it's core into thinking it's thinking for it's self and free to choose whichever flavour it likes - in reality, there are only so many flavours in the shop I (and you all) are in at the moment, I have a choice, but it's not unlimited. Being able to choose from vanilla, strawberry and chocolate chip is better than just plain vanilla, but it is not the same as being the guy who puts the mix into the ice cream machine and builds the choices themselves. But we all like to think that's where we are.

That's not really a sad revelation, just something I think I've seen.

I see a huge potential for all the core beings that make up humanity to become something special. I also see the 1.) characters that make up such a huge percentage of it pulling and dragging it back, rigidly fixed to their rulesets and stopping it from going anywhere - hungry for the short term fix, more bits of shiney plastic shit to decorate their homes with, clutter. Penguarky Tunguin said something similar, just in different words "the wrong path". And I see leery11's point, the characters feedback into the environment via things like scare tactic news "it's scary outside, better make sure I interact in a way that is resprective of that" <- and so they create an environment for other interactions that is scary and so on, the fear propogates through the network of characters, the plot of the story.

I like to experience things in as much detail as possible. I smell random objects like computer foam, taste twigs and things and try to build up the richest possible sensory memory of things I can. I like to cook. And I realised, prior to my revelation evening, why is it I don't eat more. Some people seem to love the taste of this, it's not horrible to me but for some reason, something about me is saying I don't like it. I wanted severely to get over that, to be able to see and experience things through a mind where I wouldn't be trying it with my character, I'd get rid of the character and just take it for what it was directly into my core being without prejudging it at all for what 'I' would or wouldn't like.

I can also see how this rambling would sound exactly like the ramblings of someone in a psychiatric ward. I think I truely believe it. I'm either going wrong or I'm becoming something more than those who think I'm drifting off course. I'm scared about the first possibility, but I also suspect that I'm probably right - that those who would say I'm getting close are happily and ignorantly, immersed in their characters.

Perhaps having a character isn't so bad. What's bad is letting that character solidify the way they do, beyond a familiar solidarity and into a rigid (I like this, this is right, that's wrong) ruleset.

I like Booby's post as well. As with the others, there are similar points in there. You don't need to follow preset pathways - it's your character tricking you just like a magic eye picture. There are some ideas in that post I'll have to have a think about.

This all raises some great ontological and epistemological questions. If I'm throwing out my character, I need to reassess right and wrong, fact and fiction. How should I reapproach my experiments with life? Should I be nastier? Nicer? Lots of questions.

Anyway, I'm all out of ramblings for now - at least, on this idea.

You might like this video I watched just a few days ago on AI and consciousness. It's long.

[url=
4]Building Gods[/url]

Oh man, I have everything and nothing all in one! :shocked:


Edited by johnuk (07/12/06 08:41 PM)


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OfflinePowerTrip
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Re: I fear I spend an unhealthy amount of time contemplating reality [Re: johnuk]
    #5859743 - 07/14/06 09:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I just want to thank everyone for the replies. I haven't been able to reply until now because I am working a massive amount of overtime. Maybe the mindless work helps keep me grounded. Maybe the pursuit of money is an attempt to have something more which may fill the void.

All of you raised good points. Personally I have returned to some core Buddhist teachings in an attempt to find peace. When Buddhist monks attain enlightenment they do not commit suicide or cease to have the will to exist. Regardless of what the actual nature of reality is, we are still here. We are still part of this "game" even if we recognize that fact and become aware of the facade. The only possible choice is to carry on and play the game. Or, maybe we are supposed to find a way out of the game. Maybe we are cursed with immortality in the game until we break free of it's hypnotic state...but I digress.

Johnuk, I know exactly how you feel as far as being on the edge of sanity. It literally feels as if you are standing on the edge of something, and if you allow yourself to go a step further you may not be able to recover from what you discover. In a moment of stoned lucidity I realized that maybe it isn't so bad to allow yourself to go over the edge. This reality will always be here for you if you wish to return. We can venture out of it for a period of time to try and see things from another perspective. We are deemed "insane" by those who do not have the courage to contemplate such things. Those who would rather spend the entirety of their lives in a state of blissful delusion.

I have decided that there is nothing inherently wrong with questioning reality. We believe there is something wrong with it only because that is what our society tells us. People can be locked up for such things. At least they don't burn us anymore. Mind expanding substances and questioning reality are not accepted in our culture for one reason alone. Christianity. A religion based solely on blind faith. One which condemns any who dare question it's foundations. I just realized all of the negativity I feel inside of me is stemming from my deeply rooted contempt for Christianity. I always thought I had escaped the trauma of a religious upbringing, but I now realize that I feel guilt in everything I desire because of it.

I am going to devote the remainder of this life and any others (if possible) to the pursuit of the truth of the nature of reality. I am done playing by the rules laid out by the foolish sheep.

Good luck to all. I will see you when you get there.


--------------------
I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life


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OfflineThe_Hobbit
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Re: I fear I spend an unhealthy amount of time contemplating reality [Re: PowerTrip]
    #5860674 - 07/15/06 03:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It's wrong to classify contemplation of reality as a hobby. It's inherent - it's what you know and it's the truth. Your perspective is based upon how you consider things. It's all the questions - why, what, how, and when do you answer them?

There is an obvious problem here. Listen to your gut instinct/heart. Obsession is not healthy. What you need is to find a balance. There are many different ways to go about your business. What is yours? That is the decision that will guide you.

"Maybe the mindless work helps keep me grounded. Maybe the pursuit of money is an attempt to have something more which may fill the void."

If you consider your work to be meaningless, it will be. It's the choice you make that is meaningful. If you try to be a good worker, then it will make you happy to accomplish your goal. There is no void - that is just a way of losing focus. If you focus on what you are doing, then there is something - there is everything. Money is a tool to survive. It's a tool to purchase. It's not anything more. Don't get caught up in greed. Consider what you want and need and go for it.

You should be careful with shrooms and even weed. If they are effecting you negatively, why bother?


--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


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OfflinePowerTrip
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Re: I fear I spend an unhealthy amount of time contemplating reality [Re: The_Hobbit]
    #5861456 - 07/15/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I only referred to my work as mindless because it is production work. Very little intelligence is required, and a great deal of repetition. I do put a great deal of effort into my job though. By comparison to others at the company I do very exceptional work. It is just a temporary solution to money needs though. It is far from being a passion in life.

I haven't used shrooms in a year or so. Weed isn't mentally unhealthy for me, it just amplifies whatever mental state I am currently in. When I am feeling rather inquisitive and contemplative then many random ideas seem to flow.


--------------------
I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I fear I spend an unhealthy amount of time contemplating reality [Re: Penguarky Tunguin]
    #5866900 - 07/16/06 07:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Penguarky Tunguin said:
Yep.  :grin:

Thats the feeling I get when I thought I experienced the ultimate truth.  Pure terror.  But I think the terror is how far in the opposite direction we are from it.  That's the horror!  We are all so down the wrong path it's not even funny.  And physicists are trying to find the theory of everything, muhahaahahaha!!!!!




:grin: Obsession is never having to say you're happy. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (07/16/06 07:20 PM)


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