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OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
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Registered: 04/01/06
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: 8374837]
    #5840842 - 07/09/06 11:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup: :thumbup:


--------------------
"People living deeply have no fear of death."
"Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love."
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5841227 - 07/10/06 01:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Does this mean you don't think the FBI should have the tools it needs to fight the war on terror?




I think people like you would just as well have a chip gps tracking implant and believe it would be for your "protection". It's damn well obvious this isn't for the war on terror. This is data mining to bust anyone who falls in the net, if it was just for the war on terror they would put a terrorist only prosecution mandate in it, is that there? I don't think so.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5841230 - 07/10/06 01:31 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

RosettaStoned said:
Why in hell do we need to have a fucking govt looking over our damn shoulder?!




Because some of "us" are evil scumbags who don't exactly wear "I am an evil scumbag" badges.  Capisce?




Oh please mr bush, protect me from the evil scumbags what would we ever do with out your wisdom  :rolleyes:

From my view the scumbags are the ones with badges.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


Edited by RosettaStoned (07/10/06 03:10 AM)


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5841590 - 07/10/06 07:30 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think people like you would just as well have a chip gps tracking implant and believe it would be for your "protection".

You seem to somehow "know" a lot about me (are you a psychic?) and my political views from my asking a couple of hypothetical questions designed to create debate.

The fact is that you neither know me nor my political views.

When you assume you make an ass out of u and me.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (07/10/06 07:31 AM)


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OfflineBooby
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5841614 - 07/10/06 07:47 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
When you assume you make an ass out of u and me.




I've heard that same phrase elsewhere. I assume it's a colloquialism; Does that assumption make us asses? No. What is the intent of that phrase then? (some people have control issues)


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


Edited by Booby (07/10/06 07:50 AM)


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: Booby]
    #5841635 - 07/10/06 08:07 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I've heard that same phrase elsewhere. I assume it's a colloquialism; Does that assumption make us asses? No. What is the intent of that phrase then? (some people have control issues)

The phrase means to me that if we jump to conclusions about someone we may judge them wrongly which makes us wrong as well. Of course, the phrase is more catchy and easier to remember than my interpretation.

IMO with most issues things are not nearly as "cut and dried" as many people judge them to be. The truth usually lies somewhere near the middle with most people (at least nowadays) at the far left or far right. The chasm in between is deep and dark...


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5841646 - 07/10/06 08:18 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry to be off-topic but let's clear this up.

LunarEclipse asks a couple of hypothetical questions designed to create debate and then slams someone by judging them to be an ass. Then he/she defends his/her action by claiming defense from judgment. Sorry but it doesn't wash with me; I still think it's a control issue.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: Booby]
    #5841732 - 07/10/06 09:12 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think you better get back on topic.


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OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: Redstorm]
    #5841852 - 07/10/06 09:59 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

The real issue the article talks about is our government starting to control the business world as well. Requiring a manufacturer to include a backdoor for the government to look into anyone using their product.

The 27-page proposed CALEA amendments seen by CNET News.com would:

• Require any manufacturer of "routing" and "addressing" hardware to offer upgrades or other "modifications" that are needed to support Internet wiretapping. Current law does require that of telephone switch manufacturers--but not makers of routers and network address translation hardware like Cisco Systems and 2Wire.

• Authorize the expansion of wiretapping requirements to "commercial" Internet services including instant messaging if the FCC deems it to be in the "public interest." That would likely sweep in services such as in-game chats offered by Microsoft's Xbox 360 gaming system as well.


--------------------
"People living deeply have no fear of death."
"Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love."
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5842114 - 07/10/06 11:34 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

When you respond to this as "a tool for the fbi to fight terrorism" one can only think that you agree with every stinking dung pile that drops out the govts ass. This is quite possibly the least likely tool to fight "terror" that they have ever came up with. This net data mining is a tool, but it is a tool to bypass due process and as David_vs_Goliath points out, a tool to strengthen govt control of business under the guise of protection.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


Edited by RosettaStoned (07/10/06 11:35 AM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push *DELETED* [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5842926 - 07/10/06 03:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by zappaisgod

Reason for deletion: Redstorm said to



--------------------


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OfflineMustNotBe
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5843006 - 07/10/06 03:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Like there is much anyone reading what I am writing right now will make a difference? I am going to have to say that I doubt this bill will be passed though. For the sake of our rights as "Americans"?


--------------------
Junkies United we stand , Devided we're sick as fuck.
-                  -                -
"Hallucinations are something heroin users are not at all accustomed to," said Const. Conor King, Victoria police drug expert. "They react like you or I would react if we took Aspirin and all of a sudden the TV got up and started walking across the room."
-                  -                -
Make drugs legal, or alcohol and tobacco illegal. Either way it's more fair.


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OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: MustNotBe]
    #5843054 - 07/10/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think most Americans would be happy with this bill, that is what scares me...


--------------------
"People living deeply have no fear of death."
"Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love."
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Registered: 10/31/04
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5844392 - 07/10/06 09:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"When you respond to this as "a tool for the fbi to fight terrorism" one can only think that you agree with every stinking dung pile that drops out the govts ass. This is quite possibly the least likely tool to fight "terror" that they have ever came up with. This net data mining is a tool, but it is a tool to bypass due process and as David_vs_Goliath points out, a tool to strengthen govt control of business under the guise of protection."

Perhaps I should have put smirk smileys after my questions and you would have known I was being hypothetical or playing devil's advocate or whatever you want to call it.  I am not in support of increased government control of business just for the record.  Does that make me a Republican, because they want less government? :smirk:


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (07/10/06 09:12 PM)


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OfflineTrepiodos
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5844624 - 07/10/06 09:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

When the government taps into the communications of such large numbers of people, it is statistically a waste of resources in the detection of terrorists. The numbers of terrorists are so minuscule among the subjects of government spying, that (if in fact the purpose is to catch terrorists) so many false leads will be generated as to overwhelm investigators and send them on wild goose chases, reducing the chances to what is essentially equivalent to random picks from the population at large. Couple this with the fact that anyone of minimal intelligence engaged in a terrorist plot will in fact encrypt their communications, or resort to physical meeting or message drops out of the reach of the eavesdropping of electronic communications and the justification is patently ridiculous.

The only statistically logical reason for such wide nets as we see coming from the administration and their toadies is to detect who in fact are their political opponents and to intimidate them or target them, as political opponents are much more numerous and a greater threat to the powers that currently control our government. I seriously doubt that the sycophantic cheerleaders of the nascent Bush police state would have been happy if Bill and Hillary were engaged in such trolling. I know from past discussions and tuning in to right-wing talk radio, that the vast majority seemed quite displeased with Hillary's access to the paltry 900 plus FBI files and the Clinton administration's targeting of political opponents utilizing the IRS. That they should so blithely dismiss the growing threat of tyranny posed by the Bush administration reeks of self serving, blind allegiance, a total lack of principles, and extreme short-sightedness for the health and longevity of the republic.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5844643 - 07/10/06 10:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

My apologies I will take that into note next time. I didn't not know you was playing devils advocate at all. You simply said, "do you not want the fbi to have tools to fight terror" or something like that. A little smiley face would have helped  :tongue2:

Guess I have been too busy I missed zappa's reply, did I miss getting called any interesting names? I hate to miss zappa's gems of truthiness  :lol:


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5844808 - 07/10/06 10:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"Guess I have been too busy I missed zappa's reply, did I miss getting called any interesting names? I hate to miss zappa's gems of truthiness"

I missed the whole day.  Some of us have to work.

And yes, that zappa is a gem although in a bit of a "rough state".  :grin:


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: Trepiodos]
    #5845283 - 07/11/06 12:13 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Trepiodos said:
When the government taps into the communications of such large numbers of people, it is statistically a waste of resources in the detection of terrorists. The numbers of terrorists are so minuscule among the subjects of government spying, that (if in fact the purpose is to catch terrorists) so many false leads will be generated as to overwhelm investigators and send them on wild goose chases, reducing the chances to what is essentially equivalent to random picks from the population at large. Couple this with the fact that anyone of minimal intelligence engaged in a terrorist plot will in fact encrypt their communications, or resort to physical meeting or message drops out of the reach of the eavesdropping of electronic communications and the justification is patently ridiculous.

The only statistically logical reason for such wide nets as we see coming from the administration and their toadies is to detect who in fact are their political opponents and to intimidate them or target them, as political opponents are much more numerous and a greater threat to the powers that currently control our government. I seriously doubt that the sycophantic cheerleaders of the nascent Bush police state would have been happy if Bill and Hillary were engaged in such trolling. I know from past discussions and tuning in to right-wing talk radio, that the vast majority seemed quite displeased with Hillary's access to the paltry 900 plus FBI files and the Clinton administration's targeting of political opponents utilizing the IRS. That they should so blithely dismiss the growing threat of tyranny posed by the Bush administration reeks of self serving, blind allegiance, a total lack of principles, and extreme short-sightedness for the health and longevity of the republic.




thats almost the same idea as outlawing guns to keep them out of the hands of criminals...but in this case..the "guns" that the govt aims to restrict are simply closed channels of communication...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5845512 - 07/11/06 01:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

What would be the legal implications of a business that markets software which blocks backdoors so the government can't stick its big nose into them?


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: FBI plans new Net-tapping push [Re: Konnrade]
    #5846456 - 07/11/06 11:03 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

im not sure if its possible to block the backdoors so as to prevent the govt from viewing a packet of data...OTOH..its easy to encrypt or disguise the said data...an illegible encryption..however..would be cause for suspicion..and if the govt restricts the technology..criminal charges...

the only practical option for the govt to restrict the use of encryption technology would be through licensing...vendors cannot be required to provide a "skeleton key" for use by the govt..since that key would quickly fall into the wrong hands...so in order to purchase encryption software..you would first have to apply for a govt license...but encryption software is easy to code..so the restrictions will be ineffective against illicit users...its just like a silencer..which is illegal but which anyone can make themselves...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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