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Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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government, society, anarchy and drugs
    #5832855 - 07/07/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I can see a pattern here..

most shroomers don't like rules of this civilisation
most shroomers would prefer a free life, free of this kind of civilisation, free of government control
most shroomers have something to say against religion
most shroomers opened their minds through use of drugs, or at least explored their own minds through use of drugs finding these kinds of worldviews
most shroomers feel the world should be without fixed structure, morality, standards etc.

the system of civilisation is based on all these things, also the system of organised religion is based on most of these things

most shroomers don't like the fact that civilisation is trying to forbid them from using drugs

My question:
did you expect the system of civilisation and religion to act any differently?
The society is defending itself, because through drugs it could end as we know it, no more standards, no more morality etc.

If you were the society and you were trying to preserve your standards of morality and behaviour, would you let someone endanger it?

It's a honest fight. You fight for your freedom, they fight for selfpreservation, no need to cast blaims on each other. It's a fair fight


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5833159 - 07/07/06 07:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Great thoughts to think about. :wink:

Its true, and this has been directly demonstrated in our recent history as a planet, specifically within America. Acid was not prohibited due to any actual concern over physical or mental damage in those who were consuming it, but because those who were involved with the culture were not contributing to the society in the manner that those who manage that society saw productive.

If you have someone that is working agansit your agenda, say, for instance, the Vietnam War, and there is some aspect of these people that can be used agansit them, to one's own favor, then you do it. The Drug War is, and has always been, merely a form of retaining control as a government, when the purpose of the government is to naturally lessen control (the most effective government is one that can sucessfuly allow a system to effectively and beneficially regulate itself).

There is a reason why predatory animals on the savannah are wise to hunt around water holes, and not at water holes. Monitor the water hole and the prey will come to you, but maintain the water hole so that more prey will appear.

And that, quite honestly, is the way that it truly is. "I'm bigger, so I take your lunch money" is reasoning that naturally evolves into "You drove two miles per hour over the speed limit that I set, so you must pay me $96. ". Government, obviously, is an entity that takes power from individuals in order to use that power over individuals.

Beneficial? Necessary? Great question. Everyone think about it, and let us know what you think. This system certainly might be necessary, and beneficial. :shocked: :grin: The great thing is that we all still have power to effect this system and those who are also involved in it, regardless of the current form that this system has. I suggest that everyone, myself included, becomes more aware of the nature of this and begins to purposely interact with others and one's environment in order to change the system. :thumbup: What do you think, and what would you do? Why would it benefit oneself and others? What effect could such have, and, in observing the consequences of one's actions, what effect does it have? Every cause has an effect, so there is an answer to that question. :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5833202 - 07/07/06 07:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It's not just about control, it's about defending your beliefs. Maybe the evil politicians trully don't care about anything but control, but your avarage policeman believes in the system of values that it is defending, so It comes down not to the fact that policeman simply wants to help someone above him control you, but to the fact that this policeman believes in the morality he is defending and is persuing you because you threaten it.

It's also the same on the other side. A typical shroomer believes in his own values, such as the idea that there is no morality, and defends those values the only way he can: with words, and with the use of privacy.

The reason I started this thread is because I think this shroomer is not aware of the fact that both sides are equal in this, both are fighting for what they believe in with tools they have.

As every fight in nature is fair, and is such that everyone uses what abilities and tools they have, so is this one:
They have guns and thousands of soldiers and contract killers, and the shroomer has his untouchable individuality, and rights that have been given by the enemy to him.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5833230 - 07/07/06 08:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

What the policeman believes is speculative, first and foremost. I, quite honestly, do not foresee many policemen, especially considering the nature of their work, as being optimistic idealists. :smirk:

I am quite willing to admit that I am sure that many policemen become involved in the work, in part, with the thought of serving others, of making their community better, etc., but I am not so quick to accept that there isn't more to that story. :grin: It might not be just about control, but control certainly seems to be most of it. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSchwammel
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5833234 - 07/07/06 08:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I beleive in knowing all aspects of this world,
some of it long and verbose...

but I also beleive in getting high.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: Schwammel]
    #5833252 - 07/07/06 08:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Not exactly aware of how those two statements conflict each other, which places into question your usage of the word "but". :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSchwammel
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5833260 - 07/07/06 08:19 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

the spirit moves in mysterious ways,
I don't understand it either
waht do you think?


Edited by Schwammel (07/07/06 08:20 PM)


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5833646 - 07/07/06 10:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

the fact that this policeman believes in the morality he is defending

My sister is currently in the progress of writing a socio-psychological report on the degenerate culture of police in America, a culture which is notoriously amoral and alcoholic.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5834274 - 07/08/06 03:16 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

great thread! I don't have the time right now to read all the other posts, I will tomorrow.

I don't feel like I chose to be a part of this society (american), that it was thrust upon me, and over the course of my life I have slowly recognized society and its impact on my being, thought process, and reality and have been trying to undo that conditioning.

No regrets, Im not calling anything "bad", or evil..... its just that I envision (for me) a better reality and way of life than the american protocol of bumper stickers, pop stars, cliffhanger news, mocha lattes, iPods, reality television etc.
Like many other people here, I have had a glimpse of a different reality..... a perception that was unlocked and let out of the box, and I found it impossible to stuff back in.


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OfflineKras
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5834361 - 07/08/06 05:13 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Do you believe that those who support civilization are really right? When I think about "the System" all I see looks like a huge bad-trip that took over whole modern world. People are not aware who they are, what they really want. They are running in circles in pursuit of dreams that aren't even their OWN dreams. This whole thing kills thousands of human beings... not to mention animals, plants... whole species. Politicians are not able to control it - even if they have just intentions. I believe that we are dealing with demonic being that forces everything to be something artificial.

Am I paranoid? Yes, I am. Am I wrong? I don't know.


--------------------
enjoy life!


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: Kras]
    #5835188 - 07/08/06 01:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think as long as you haven't become aware of society and its conditioning impact upon yourself, you still need to suck the tit that is society.

Kind of like a dog, if its whole life you have fed it brand X dog Chow, and that one time it gets to taste filet mignon it never wants dog chow again.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5835379 - 07/08/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

What if we weren't conditioned by the society? We would get conditioned by something else, possibly the law of survival in nature or whatever replacement environment we lived in.

In the end, we humans are like clay, and somethig always shapes us.

Some people here seem to think that if you let go of social conditioning you would find some true self inside. But that "true" self that you find when you let go of society is again a construct of some kind of conditioning, exept that it has a different teacher: the teacher is maybe nature, but again it's a teacher.

I think letting go of this or that is an illusion, and when you peel one layer of conditioning you find another, and there is no chockolate core.

The smartest thing we can do in that situation is find the most practical system of conditioning to operate our bodies and brains.

It's like computer software, you can peel of the GUI, but you still have an operating system in there, and it is still writen by some programer (be it society, natural instincts, or whatever)

Our wildest trippy dreams and just extensions of fairy tales we listened to as children, they are all conditioned. Imagination is always about taking objects appart and rearanging them into something new


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5836815 - 07/08/06 08:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I don't agree at all.

Maybe we aren't considering the same idea of what social conditioning is... so I will preface this post with my understanding of it.

Social conditioning is like a subconscious, knee-jerk reaction to events and ideas; it affects your thought process and your perception of reality. Social conditioning is what draws that mental line for a person between good and bad, right and wrong, guilt and pride.

Conditioning bypasses personal truth, it goes undetected because it is drawn out over a long period of time... basically, someone telling you over and over again that this is bad, or this is good. Conditioning is the exact opposite of cognition: one is told to you until you believe it, while the other comes from within you.

It just feels like you have been living a lie when you realize how much of your personality and beliefs are not your own and that you have been designed for optimal performance in social interactions.

Your perception of reality should be your teacher, not some external presence.... but that is the catch-22, you first have to shake off the social conditioning that is affecting your perception of reality before you can build it back up by yourself.

What is the difference between a domesticized dog and us? we have the ability to break free of the conditioning, even in its overwhelming presence.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5836885 - 07/08/06 09:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The society is defending itself, because through drugs it could end as we know it, no more standards, no more morality etc.




The trouble with the "self-defense" theory is that society would not have to end, standards and morality would not have to cease to apply to those who value them.  What would change in our society would be the constant persecution (and prosecution) of those few individuals who want the freedom to live a different life.

I do not believe that these individuals would pursue anarchy if they were allowed the freedom they desire.  If religious groups would refrain from pushing their agendas into our lawbooks, if straight society would keep their morals and standards out of other citizen's homes and bodies and libraries, if our brainless President would keep his personal beliefs out of his governance of our country...well, there would be nothing to lash out at, no chains to break through the force of revolution.

Few of the iconoclastic individuals I know would choose to force everyone else in the country to live as they do.  That's the difference between US and THEM.  :thumbdown:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: Veritas]
    #5837894 - 07/09/06 04:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Let's face it, society can't exist with multiple types of morality and worldview, they always tend to push each other out.
People would either push this new morality out, or convert to it.

People want "truth", they can't accept the idea that there are two truths, so they will either look at this new thing as a lie, or accept it as truth and proclaim the traditional morality a lie.

The only safe place for diversity is in privacy


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineBooby
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5837945 - 07/09/06 06:07 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
The society is defending itself, because through drugs it could end as we know it, no more standards, no more morality etc.

If you were the society and you were trying to preserve your standards of morality and behaviour, would you let someone endanger it?

It's a honest fight. You fight for your freedom, they fight for selfpreservation, no need to cast blaims on each other. It's a fair fight




Society is based on mutual benefit; what I have in excess I give to you, what comes easy to me benefits you. Society is a pleasure more than a liability.

Taxes. Public servants (those people who serve the public) are getting paid too much! Now society is about paying servants too much! Screwy. Servants don't get more than the people they serve. Do you agree?


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: Booby]
    #5837965 - 07/09/06 06:34 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

in its mating ritual, the male spangled dragtail, contrives to catch the female spangled dragtail's attention by flicking the long silvery white feather of it's tail in the dust and dazzling her eyes with reflected sunflashes.
it is most important to do this while facing the female and raising both wings displaying the red and green approved vine pattern.
this takes a lot of coordinated effort on the male's part as the long white feather in it's drag tail can become mired and lose reflectance, and it must also twist the body awkwardly to achive full frontal exposure with rearward dexterity.
but it is a sacrifice all male spangled dragtails will perform in order to get some nooky.

from this I represent to you,
that we are engaged in a mating dance with society
we are supposed to only show one side of our self, (with the approved logo) and we must do this awkwardly while only allowing a certain aspect of our OTHER SIDE to be dragged in the sunlight.
for all other activities we must go it alone or
like the male spangled dragtail
we could go in drag.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineBooby
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5837969 - 07/09/06 06:41 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
we are engaged in a mating dance with society





er...you want your babies to be leeches rather than that which is leeched upon. Is that what you said?


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5838409 - 07/09/06 11:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
What is the difference between a domesticized dog and us? we have the ability to break free of the conditioning, even in its overwhelming presence.




My dog has always resisted conditioning. He makes it seem as though he is conditioned, but will act by his own will either when he thinks he can get away with it or if he thinks getting punished will be worth it.

Apparently my dog has more freedom than a considerable amount of human beings. He also has fleas, but I am going to throw him in the bathtub again today and apply some more conditioning...

:smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: government, society, anarchy and drugs [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5839022 - 07/09/06 02:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

alright, well maybe there isn't any difference between us and domesticized dogs...

when I let my Jack Russell terrorist outside to run around, and then call her inside she knows she can hold out until I give in and offer a treat to go inside.


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