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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisibletak
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'North Korea
    #5828852 - 07/06/06 06:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

There dont seem to be any topics here since the missile firing onthe 4th. Maybe I am just blind.

Anways, I am interested in possible scenerios that play out in everyones heads. I am not really up to par on political science and current global issues...that is why I just read and let everyone else talk.

I know diffrent countries have diffrent ties, and we do not support N.Korea blowing stuff up, but they are swinging from china and russia's nuts.

I also know that their leader is said to be crazy, and that the US could not afford to go to war right now with the major problems we are having in Iraq.

So please, alot of things can happen, but help me figure it out.


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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: tak]
    #5828876 - 07/06/06 06:48 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It would help if Wacko Jongo died of natural causes soon. I imagine anyone in North Korea would be more reasonable than him.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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OfflineACME
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: tak]
    #5829280 - 07/06/06 08:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

North Korea keeps testing missiles japan gets pissed and makes a move North Korea counterstrikes US backs japan china backs North Korea both fire nukes we all die. Is it possible ? :matrix2:

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: ACME]
    #5829316 - 07/06/06 08:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

China will never back North Korea for anything other than a bit of regional lip service. The only thing China will ever go apeshit over is Taiwan and Tibet.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: Basilides]
    #5830311 - 07/07/06 01:21 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

the whole North Korea bit is a statement by their president. He is using it as a ploy for political positioning. Nukes and missles give him the Ace card so he can get involved in the big politics and have some say. Without the nukes or missles their country is nothing. I feel that they would never send them at the US, or anyone else, but I think they are just doing this to prove a point and take a stance. any one else agree?


--------------------
"People living deeply have no fear of death."
"Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love."
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
    #5830386 - 07/07/06 02:00 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Yea, I tend to agree. Attacking the US would simply be stupid on his part, and the prime natural drive of a dictator is to maintain power as long as possible. The US could overthrow Kim's government if it wished, even with the Iraq slog, as a post-invasion North Korea is unlikely to produce a popular insurgency.

However, Kim Jong-Il's strive towards military power and proliferation comes at an immense price, as the people of North Korea are basically starving to death while this supposed communist government pumps money into their military budget.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: Basilides]
    #5830513 - 07/07/06 04:04 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Attacking the US would simply be stupid on his part, and the prime natural drive of a dictator is to maintain power as long as possible




Yet people in positions of power in the middle-east had no desire to maintain power, they just wanted to throw it all away by attacking the most powerful nation on earth...interesting.

So I guess the prime natural drive of people in absolute power isn't to maintain it if the tv paints us a different picture.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5831149 - 07/07/06 11:29 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"Yet people in positions of power in the middle-east had no desire to maintain power, they just wanted to throw it all away by attacking the most powerful nation on earth...interesting."

Hmmmmm... If you are talking about 9/11, there was no country involved in the so-called position of power. It was a group with like-minded ideas.


--------------------
"People living deeply have no fear of death."
"Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love."
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."

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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
    #5831740 - 07/07/06 01:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Hmmmmm... If you are talking about 9/11, there was no country involved in the so-called position of power. It was a group with like-minded ideas.




And bin laden didn't have authority in afganistan? He wasn't working hand in hand with the taliban? He had training camps there of course he was with the taliban. Al-Q didn't exist as an organization, it was only the name of a training camp till the US govt used that to label them. They had to give them a name so they could prosecute them under anti-mafia laws.

In fact bin laden was most likely the wealthiest person in the region, thus making him defacto ruler. Money = power


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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OfflineEconomist
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5831774 - 07/07/06 01:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RosettaStoned said:
In fact bin laden was most likely the wealthiest person in the region, thus making him defacto ruler. Money = power




So, can I take it that you aren't even REMOTELY concerned about American politics then? Clearly Bill Gates is the defacto ruler of America. We should blame the Iraq war on Bill Gates. Infact, Bill Gates has also failed to capture Osama Bin Laden! And it was Gates who failed to stop the 9/11 attacks! After all, money is power, so he's our defacto ruler...

Okay, the sarcasm got waaaaay too thick on my part, but I hope I illustrated my point.

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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: Economist]
    #5831851 - 07/07/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I guess I shouldn't have deleted the part about "especially in backwards countries". And how can you ignore the power of corporate lobbying interests in the US govt? If you think corporate interests don't dominate US politics then you have your head very deep up some nether region.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

Edited by RosettaStoned (07/07/06 02:04 PM)

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5832001 - 07/07/06 02:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Rich people don't get into power, bullshitters do

Money talks, bullshit walks.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5832319 - 07/07/06 03:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

bin laden is a war hero in afghanistan because of the afghan/russia war. he wasn't involvved in the afghan government.

also, bin laden is and was not the richest person in the region. the region that supplys 80% of the worlds opium.

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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #5832627 - 07/07/06 05:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

JonnyOnTheSpot said:
bin laden is a war hero in afghanistan because of the afghan/russia war. he wasn't involvved in the afghan government.

also, bin laden is and was not the richest person in the region. the region that supplys 80% of the worlds opium.




With his connections and background, he was most assuredly someone of great power and influence prior to and after 9/11. And though he may not have been the most wealthiest person there, would he not have easily ranked among the top 2 or 3?

As far as you saying he was not involved in the running of the country you are merely speculating. There is no library of the taliban to show who ordered what and when. We know he was there, we know he was a person of great influence, thus it is easy to assume he had his hands in things. That is simple logic, to say he didn't is really speculation without any facts to support it.

It still goes against his need to preserve and maintain authority by attacking the US. Bin laden would have absolutely nothing to gain from it and everything to loose. Yet we don't apply the same desire to maintain ones standing to bin laden, yet kim jong-ll is recognized at having this quality. The difference? Your television.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5833840 - 07/07/06 11:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

then why does our media represent al-qaida as a seperate group and not a source of authority or power. don't try to use the term taliban because the taliban is afghani. We have been told that it is al-qaida and not the taliban that made the attack. The premise on attacking afghanistan was a connection of Bin Laden and the taliban. don't try to turn this one around.


--------------------
"People living deeply have no fear of death."
"Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love."
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."

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Invisiblequiver
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: tak]
    #5833948 - 07/08/06 12:34 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

we are definately dealing with monkeys in suits in this crisis

some 'unknown source' has said australia would be willing to offer them 'cheap' coal to bring them back to the talks hahahah
i know i didnt make the offer

i hope every country we sell coal too demands the same 'cheap' price

kim jong il must die,id prefer by fire but natural causes would be ok too


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: quiver]
    #5833975 - 07/08/06 12:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The US should try assassinating him or something


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Invisiblequiver
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: Basilides]
    #5834071 - 07/08/06 01:22 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

i think his own people should hang him with piano wire to a train and drag him around

i get a serge of rage whenever i see his pathetic image


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
    #5834293 - 07/08/06 03:42 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

David_vs_Goliath said:
then why does our media represent al-qaida as a separate group and not a source of authority or power. don't try to use the term taliban because the taliban is afghani. We have been told that it is al-qaida and not the taliban that made the attack. The premise on attacking afghanistan was a connection of Bin Laden and the taliban. don't try to turn this one around.




Simple. Because Al-Q didn't exist as such until we named it. They did not call themselves that, they named 1 training camp that as my understand goes. We used the name of that training camp as broad label for them long before 9/11. Back before we could just detain people for no reason, we had to prosecute them under a law. We gave them a label, then went after them as under anti-mafia laws that were in existence at the time.

You need to remember calling them Al-Q is what the US govt did, what were they really? A series of military bases inside a country under the govt of the taliban. With a great afgani war hero as the leadership, that practically makes him general.

I am struck by one phrase in your post that you probably don't think to much about. "we have been told" That in essence is the key, you have been told and you assume it is the truth. Pictures are painted for the public to keep us from realizing what is really happening, as time passes it becomes easier and easier to see.


As to the NK situation, I also heard today that taiwan was going to launch missiles that are capable of reaching china? Is it really small countries playing the big ones? Or could it be the US having taiwan launch a missile to slap china in the face for not keeping NK in check? There's no oil in the ground in this one, I'm not so quick to believe these little nations really mean all that much to those on the top.

If taiwan is going to launch missiles it is either doing so upon US orders or it just generally wants to make a statement it's pissed at what NK is doing. Suppose either is just as likely a possibility but pissing china off doesn't sound like a very good idea to me.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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Invisiblequiver
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Re: 'North Korea [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5834304 - 07/08/06 03:53 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"you,we,us,them"
make up your mind
everyones launching missiles and here we cant even have back yard incinerators cause it might pollute the world tut tut


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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