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PenCapBlue
Mmmmbop

Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 26
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Killing somebody.
#5828343 - 07/06/06 04:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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For quite a while, I was lost about killing people. Is it 'wrong?' Why?
Is death only bad because the living don't see them anymore?
Many things like that. But now, I have come to the conclusion that when you are killing somebody, you are taking away their most prized posession. Because if they wanted to die, they would already be dead.
Thoughts? Ideas?
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: Killing somebody. [Re: PenCapBlue]
#5828357 - 07/06/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
PenCapBlue said: For quite a while, I was lost about killing people. Is it 'wrong?' Why?
Is death only bad because the living don't see them anymore?
Many things like that. But now, I have come to the conclusion that when you are killing somebody, you are taking away their most prized posession. Because if they wanted to die, they would already be dead.
Thoughts? Ideas?
At this point killing is not wrong, it's illegal
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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killing/murder just IS. There is no universal guide to morality.
Wrong is such a useless word IMO. I claddisfy things in groups of pro/counter survival, because that is the fundamental part of existence.... to survive.
If someone is trying to end my life, is it wrong to kill them? wouldn't that be a pro-survival move on my part? If I randomly just walked up to someone, put a .50 cal through their head, that is counter-survival towards the human race, with no pro-survival benefits.
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PenCapBlue
Mmmmbop

Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 26
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Of course there isn't a universal guide to morality. Cause then everybody'd follow it.
And I agree, wrong (along with good, evil etc...) are very useless words. I also agree that killing just 'is,' but I wanted to get others ideas. Ask 99% of people and they'll tell you killing somebody is bad. Who gives a reason though. I found my reason, and I wanted to see what others thought of it. (to fix my 'holes')
...Pro-survival will lead to eventual pro-death in this culture. Humans are growing and growing, and nothing is stoping us. What happens when all our material is in landfills, and eaten up all Earths resources?
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MXNR
Did the Mushroom choose you?


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 406
Loc: MARS
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Killing somebody. [Re: PenCapBlue]
#5828492 - 07/06/06 05:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Killing someone has no moral quality and my personal feeling toward it would depend totally on the circumstances.
-------------------- Master: Everyday change your clothes and eat your food and you will become enlightened. Pupil: Master, I do not understand... Master: If you don't understand, eat your food and change your clothes.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Killing somebody. [Re: PenCapBlue]
#5828523 - 07/06/06 05:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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over population would be counter-survival. To take measures to protect against that would be pro-survival.... take for example the increase of longevity... if we were to have the average lifespan of 90, then we would have to start taking measures to slow birth rate down.
increasing the lifespan alone would be counter-survival, but in conjuction with a plan to retard birth rates, it is an overall pro-survival idea.
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TODAY
Battletoad


Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: killing/murder just IS. There is no universal guide to morality.
This is true, but it still can be regarded as wrong. (read on)
Quote:
psilocyberin said: Wrong is such a useless word IMO.
I disagree. How could we live amongst others without a word to signify what we all agree not to do? We need to define words so that we can use them like tools. What is the use you might ask? Again, so people know what not to do so that less conflict arises between people.
Back to killing. In a civilized state, killing somebody that isn't a threat to your survival is wrong because we live in a civilized state in order to avoid having to worry about our neighbor hacking us to death with a machete and stealing our food. If you don't live in a civilized society, sorry bub...in this case, human nature will either be the cause of your dominiation of the group of people or the cause of your submission to a stronger, more fit force.
When people assemble there is a need for rules because our nature is still to dominate or be dominated. If we took 1 million people and stuck them on an island with no leader and with food for 1/4 of the population, you'd see what would happen and you would understand the nature of man.
When we assemble, there's lots of us around so if there are no rules there will be a violent scramble for resources. Resources which the strong and capable will take for themselves, denying others of them. No rules = anarchy = the natural state of man = a pretty damn scary place to be if you ask me!! Rules say killing is wrong because we choose to live in a civilized society and pay taxes to a civilized government who promises to withhold our rules, like removing killers from our state.
That is why it is wrong, not because of a universal standard of morality or a god. Killing is wrong because it is deemed to be wrong by a group of people with the power to deem it wrong. (even if it takes killing to gaurantee the society be free of killers)
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ca'rouse (k-rouz) intr.v. To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.
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thatiAM
Stranger

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1,250
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Re: Killing somebody. [Re: MXNR]
#5828546 - 07/06/06 05:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Maybe in a cosmic sense right and wrong don't exist, but in this plane of existence, they are not to be so easily forgotten. Ultimately it is up to the individual to decide what is right and wrong for him, but regardless of that decision, there is still that which causes suffering/harm and that which causes freedom from harm. To cause others harm is to cause harm within yourself, it is unavoidable. Ignoring the inter-connectedness of all beings, even still there is harm within the individual who chooses to cause harm. The thought and act are imbedded into the mind and leave their permanent impression upon the subconscious, transforming man into animal.
Before any thought is manifested outside, that thought must be incorporated inside. By helping others you help yourself. Just because right and wrong don't mean anything in a cosmic sense doesn't give us all permission to go around killing people. It is very foolish to think so. What goes around comes around.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Killing somebody. [Re: TODAY]
#5828629 - 07/06/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree that there needs to be communication regarding the do's and don't of a given society... and if the word "wrong" were left to signify just that, i would not be having this conversation, but almost always people let the lines of reality and societal reality blur to the point that they believe these made up boundaries have supernatural or superstitious qualities, and also that they are a universal constant that should be adhered to.
in regards to your killing speech...... killing doesn't destroy humanity, it destroys the illusion of society.
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TODAY
Battletoad


Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
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How is society an illusion?
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ca'rouse (k-rouz) intr.v. To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Killing somebody. [Re: TODAY]
#5828774 - 07/06/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Because society is just like your lap. Your lap only exists, or potentially exists if you choose to "see" it that way, and only when you are in a sitting position, otherwise it is just your legs in a different position.
Society only "exists" when one person is aware of anothers presence.... how many times have you awoke at 4 am and chugged straight from the milk carton.... and not felt at all bad about it..... and then that one time that someone wakes up and see's you doing it, it is all of the sudden gross, wrong, dirty..... even when you know for a fact that that person has done it.
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TODAY
Battletoad


Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
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Society only "exists" when one person is aware of anothers presence . Yes, then it can't be an illusion if two persons are aware of it. Especially if you take the quotations of "exists" where you write it above
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ca'rouse (k-rouz) intr.v. To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: killing/murder just IS. There is no universal guide to morality.
Wrong is such a useless word IMO. I claddisfy things in groups of pro/counter survival, because that is the fundamental part of existence.... to survive.
If someone is trying to end my life, is it wrong to kill them? wouldn't that be a pro-survival move on my part? If I randomly just walked up to someone, put a .50 cal through their head, that is counter-survival towards the human race, with no pro-survival benefits.
In today's world, there is no way of defending against those with power to kill you.
The only thing that is right now keeping you (and all of us) safe from US/NATO army is their mercy, their idea of what is wrong.
They have so much weapons that they could nuke the entire middle east, just to shut them up, and enslave the rest of the world, including every american and european. Everybody would work for water and food and they could rule the world
How can morality be useless in a world where one man has the power to destroy the entire planet?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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shymanta
Mad Scientist


Registered: 01/27/05
Posts: 907
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Re: Killing somebody. [Re: TODAY]
#5828962 - 07/06/06 07:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
TODAY said: How is society an illusion?
Society is an illusion because it is a virtual construct. An artificial reality built on assumptions without questions. Assumptions that "this is the way to do things". Our world is much like virtual reality now. It is false, made of the architecture of our imagination. Where else in nature do you find creatures living in boxes?
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shymanta
Mad Scientist


Registered: 01/27/05
Posts: 907
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Re: Killing somebody. [Re: PenCapBlue]
#5828970 - 07/06/06 07:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
PenCapBlue said: Humans are growing and growing, and nothing is stoping us. What happens when all our material is in landfills, and eaten up all Earths resources?
Don't worry, Mother Earth will do what she's always done. She will kill most of us. Perhaps some of us will escape this rock and find another one to destroy.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Killing somebody. [Re: TODAY]
#5828982 - 07/06/06 07:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
TODAY said: Society only "exists" when one person is aware of anothers presence . Yes, then it can't be an illusion if two persons are aware of it. Especially if you take the quotations of "exists" where you write it above
So, if two people believe that Copperfield really made the statue of liberty disappear then it must have happened, therefor "existing"?
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: Killing somebody. [Re: shymanta]
#5828983 - 07/06/06 07:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
shymanta said:
Quote:
TODAY said: How is society an illusion?
Society is an illusion because it is a virtual construct. An artificial reality built on assumptions without questions. Assumptions that "this is the way to do things". Our world is much like virtual reality now. It is false, made of the architecture of our imagination. Where else in nature do you find creatures living in boxes?
Yes it is a virtual construct, but it is in minds of most people, so it's very real, and it's here to stay. If you want to change the world, got write a sign and parade on the streets.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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shymanta
Mad Scientist


Registered: 01/27/05
Posts: 907
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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: Yes it is a virtual construct, but it is in minds of most people, so it's very real, and it's here to stay.
An illusion no matter how solid is still an illusion.
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OldWoodSpecter said: If you want to change the world, got write a sign and parade on the streets.
That didn't change anything in Tiananmen Square. It didn't change a thing when 2 million Hispanics marched. Public protest does nothing. That's why we are guaranteed the right. The things that can change the world will get you arrested or killed. Full circle.
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TODAY
Battletoad


Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: So, if two people believe that Copperfield really made the statue of liberty disappear then it must have happened, therefor "existing"?
Lets try this again...
Quote:
psilocyberin said: Society only "exists" when one person is aware of anothers presence
...So you never trust another person to be aware of you?
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ca'rouse (k-rouz) intr.v. To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: Killing somebody. [Re: shymanta]
#5829073 - 07/06/06 07:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
shymanta said: That didn't change anything in Tiananmen Square. It didn't change a thing when 2 million Hispanics marched. Public protest does nothing. That's why we are guaranteed the right. The things that can change the world will get you arrested or killed. Full circle.
Exactly my point, meaning society is a very solid phenomenon and you can't shake it much. It takes centuries to morph it into something else.
Think about this: illusion is something that gives a certain impression but a false one, therefore the qualities it shows are false ones
Society is a system of control, and one that works amazingly well. It DOES work, so it shows its theorethical qualities in practice. It does exactly what it is defined as, therefore it's not an illusion. It really does control people
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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