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Offlinekotik
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Re: only that which can destroy itself is fully alive [Re: capliberty]
    #5834890 - 07/08/06 11:59 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

thanks for making it clear.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: only that which can destroy itself is fully alive [Re: kotik]
    #5834925 - 07/08/06 12:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"but its still more than what a fish knows.

Or perhaps i make huge assumptions...  :lol:" --Kotik

Seems likely to me that you are making huge assumptions, Kotik.  Where did your present understanding of death come from?  From your experiences with death and simulations of death (like on tv), I'd imagine.  So what you really needed was to be exposed to death.  You think fish don't get exposed to death and the very real possibilty of their impending demise a helluva lot more than you do?  I'm not saying that fish necessarily think really deeply on the matter, but do you honestly think they couldn't reach the conclusion 'death = the absense of life' just as you did?  It's not like that one's hard to figure out, really.  Most animals can distinguish the difference between a dead animal and a live one.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: only that which can destroy itself is fully alive [Re: kotik]
    #5834964 - 07/08/06 12:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

almost all of my computers destroyed themselves yet were less alive than an ant.
i like jung, but this kind of poignance is not his brightest contribution.
thus we can all emit duds sometimes.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: only that which can destroy itself is fully alive [Re: Panoramix]
    #5836224 - 07/08/06 05:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Where did your present understanding of death come from?




i'd say a few near death experiences (almost died a few times, i've seen death up close a few times), along with some time in the military, as well as being brought up catholic, then being atheist, then agnostic, then really into vedic philosophy, followed by lots of psych studies, etc. so no, not from tv and movies, although I do find the portrays there entertaining to say the least. much more pleasant than the real thing.

Quote:

You think fish don't get exposed to death and the very real possibilty of their impending demise a helluva lot more than you do?




sure they do, exposed moreso than i am, thats for sure. but i DONT think a fish has the ability to say "hm, my life is not worth living" then swim directly into the spinning blades on a boat motor. The only animals I have even heard of doing something of the sort are lemmings, and turns out, thats not suicide.. its just a quirk in their migration patterns, and standing too close to ledges.

Quote:

do you honestly think they couldn't reach the conclusion 'death = the absense of life' just as you did?




well, considering i read it in a book, no. i do not think a fish could reach the same conclusion, just as i did. in fact, i dont think fish can reach conclusions period, which emphasizes the topic yet again.

Quote:

It's not like that one's hard to figure out, really.




i agree. it seems we figure it out in different ways.

Quote:

Most animals can distinguish the difference between a dead animal and a live one.




touche, however i fail to see the connection between this, and something else. It seems everyone is focusing in such small terms on this concept. it could just as easily be viewed in the context of A.I.

What about a computer that could have the option to destroy itself?


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: only that which can destroy itself is fully alive [Re: kotik]
    #5836393 - 07/08/06 06:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
Quote:

Where did your present understanding of death come from?




i'd say a few near death experiences (almost died a few times, i've seen death up close a few times), along with some time in the military, as well as being brought up catholic, then being atheist, then agnostic, then really into vedic philosophy, followed by lots of psych studies, etc.  so no, not from tv and movies, although I do find the portrays there entertaining to say the least.  much more pleasant than the real thing.

Quote:

You think fish don't get exposed to death and the very real possibilty of their impending demise a helluva lot more than you do?


 

sure they do, exposed moreso than i am, thats for sure.  but i DONT think a fish has the ability to say "hm, my life is not worth living" then swim directly into the spinning blades on a boat motor.  The only animals I have even heard of doing something of the sort are lemmings, and turns out, thats not suicide.. its just a quirk in their migration patterns, and standing too close to ledges.

Quote:

do you honestly think they couldn't reach the conclusion 'death = the absense of life' just as you did?


 

well, considering i read it in a book, no.  i do not think a fish could reach the same conclusion, just as i did.  in fact, i dont think fish can reach conclusions period, which emphasizes the topic yet again.

Quote:

It's not like that one's hard to figure out, really.


 

i agree.  it seems we figure it out in different ways.

Quote:

Most animals can distinguish the difference between a dead animal and a live one.




touche, however i fail to see the connection between this, and something else.  It seems everyone is focusing in such small terms on this concept.  it could just as easily be viewed in the context of A.I.

What about a computer that could have the option to destroy itself?





  :crazy2:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: only that which can destroy itself is fully alive [Re: capliberty]
    #5836482 - 07/08/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

slaphappy said:
And you are responsible for your self-righteous-ness.  :rolleyes:





Quote:

Panoramix said:
Maybe it's the person claiming knowledge beyond the scope of their understanding that's truly in ignorance.  :smirk: :smirk:




Great to see that I have influenced the new generation of contributors here, as the grand purveyor of emoticons. Feel free to utlilize them without others flaming you for doing so. :smirk:

Nonetheless, I feel sorry for you all... :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: only that which can destroy itself is fully alive [Re: kotik]
    #5837607 - 07/09/06 12:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

My old Buick self-destructed... it was alive?


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Offlinekotik
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Re: only that which can destroy itself is fully alive [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5837970 - 07/09/06 06:41 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

only if it chose to destroy itself because it couldnt take your abuse anymore  :smile:


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: only that which can destroy itself is fully alive [Re: kotik]
    #5838938 - 07/09/06 01:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Most animals can distinguish the difference between a dead animal and a live one.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"touche, however i fail to see the connection between this, and something else." -- Kotik

The connection between being able to distinguish between a live animal and a dead animal and being able to come to the conclusion "Dead = not alive" would seem self-evident to me. Once a fish realizes that the fish floating at the surface is not alive, he's implicitly drawn from his experiences with death a conclusion that you apparently had to read in a book, man.

"i'd say a few near death experiences (almost died a few times, i've seen death up close a few times), along with some time in the military, as well as being brought up catholic, then being atheist, then agnostic, then really into vedic philosophy, followed by lots of psych studies, etc. so no, not from tv and movies, although I do find the portrays there entertaining to say the least. much more pleasant than the real thing." Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that you've come across death only on television, that's why I said "From your experiences with death and simulations of death (like on tv)" as a way to incorporate both your direct experiences with death and the secondary experiences with death and it's fascimilies you may have had.

"but i DONT think a fish has the ability to say "hm, my life is not worth living" then swim directly into the spinning blades on a boat motor."

I've known captive fish that commit suicide when their meagre needs are being ignored by irresponisble owners by leaping out of the tank to die of asphixiation.

"well, considering i read it in a book, no. i do not think a fish could reach the same conclusion, just as i did" By 'just as you did' I didn't mean come to the same conclusion by the same means, as you seem to have chosen to interpret it. I just meant come to the same conclusion by whatever means it happens to use.

"What about a computer that could have the option to destroy itself?"
That's an interesting question. It'd need to be self-aware to understand it's options, though. My computer keeps turning itself off, but I think that has more to do with it overheating...


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: only that which can destroy itself is fully alive [Re: Panoramix]
    #5838942 - 07/09/06 02:00 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

My computer keeps turning itself off, but I think that has more to do with it overheating...




A new fan will fix that self-destructive impulse right up.  :grin:


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Offlinekotik
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Re: only that which can destroy itself is fully alive [Re: Veritas]
    #5838961 - 07/09/06 02:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

on a related, yet unrelated note.. i organized all the wires behind my computer, and literally peeled a layer of dust-resin film from the back of my computer case's fan.  :thumbup:


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: only that which can destroy itself is fully alive [Re: kotik]
    #5839030 - 07/09/06 02:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, but the computer in question is only my backup non-internetted PC, I'm sure if I just cleaned the fan or took the casing off it would solve that problem, but I'm content to only operate it from late fall to early spring (there's no air conditioning here).

My actual spiff laptop has dibs on any money allocated for the fixing of electronics right now.  But my stomach and lungs have dibs on any disposable income before that, so the odds of my getting a new fan are slim to nil.  Thanks for the suggestion, though.  :smile2:


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