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exoduc
Stranger
Registered: 11/07/04
Posts: 35
Loc: NY
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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steralizing casing soil.....a little help please 1
#5821800 - 07/04/06 10:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ive been reading up on sterilizing, or pasteurizing, my 50/50 mix. Ive come across three options: the microwave deal, the whole thing with he oven, or boiling it in a cloth. Which would be better recommended? and why? thanks a lot. additionally: when boiling it, how long and at what temperature is recommended.
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malarki
Master Jack ofAll Trades,Realist


Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 200
Loc: Ashittown, USA
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: exoduc]
#5822006 - 07/04/06 11:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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We first you need to decide what you want to do sterilize or pasteurize. If you are using it as a casing layer you would want to pasteurize it. The whole point of using soil is to keep in moisture and using the good bacteria (like whats in the soil naturally) to fight off contams. When you make your casing it is less susceptible to contams b/c it's colonized but using soil to help prevent it is a great way to help your myc use there energy to grow and not fight contams.
Best way I have learned (how I pasteurize my poo) is to put in a bag *i use a sealer b/c its less mess and i have one. i just leave some air in the bag to allow expansion of gasses during heating* fill a pot w/ water, put a brick over it so its submerged and heat it up to 160-170, using a candy therm its works good and let it sit for 2 hrs.
When you boil it inside a bag that allows exchange of water (i.e. pillow cases) you are loosing nutrients. Kind of like that whole thing with losing your vitamins in your cereal into the milk. When you do poo you have to soak in water to get rid of the ammonia and help loosen it up to remove wood and foreign objects. With soil you wont need that.. just make sure you have some moisture in the bag... This is my best advice on what I think would work. But I don't use soil so I cant say for sure the best method of how to pasteurize. But I would definitely not sterilize it. Then there is no point in using soil and not verm/ coir.
Good luck! Make sure you update me so I can find out what happened
-------------------- ~*~I'm also an educated guesser, and knowledge seeker If I haven't done it, I know someone who has. IF I don't know, I know someone who does! I am a realist so deal with it, if you don't like it you can choose to not read it!
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: malarki]
#5822161 - 07/05/06 12:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i suggest the microwaving, only because its quick, simple, and has worked without a single problem for me after countless times.
your casing doesn't need to be completely sterile. as soon as you leave it exposed in your FC, its no longer sterile anyway. what you're trying to accomplish is just making sure its "clean"... no sense in slapping something that might be contam laden on top of your fresh substrate, right? but you're only fooling yourself if you think it remains sterile, because as i mention, things are going to land on it as its exposed and fruiting... but that's ok, and just the way things work. mycelium itself has the ability to fight off some of these airborne contams, and we use other techniques such as pH buffering to discourage mold growth, and many use a low concentration of hydrogen peroxide in their misting solution to discourage contam growth even further. to top it off, we avoid using nutritous ingredients in a casing as is, so there's not much for an invading contam to eat anyway. i've gotten away with using casing mixes straight from the bag on many lazy occasions, with absolutely no attempt to sterilize it, and still never had contam problems... but better safe than sorry, and certainly no need to go overboard either. do whatever is most convenient in your situation, its hard to go too wrong here. 
there is the belief that certain bacterias can be beneficial in your casing, which is why some will suggest pasteurization versus sterilization. speaking from personal experiences and having done it each way (straight from the bag, pasteurized, and fully sterilized in a PC) i've never seen much of a difference. these bacterias seem to effect other species (edible and otherwise) and certain species require them for pin formation, but cubes don't seem to care much any way you do it, they're just really happy to have that moist microclimate your casing provides
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malarki
Master Jack ofAll Trades,Realist


Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 200
Loc: Ashittown, USA
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: creamcorn]
#5822419 - 07/05/06 02:05 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Creamcorn definitely has some good points. I personally don't sterilize anything for my casings I put verm and coir straight from the bag/ brick right into it. I only pasteurize my poo for spawning. When you are starting off it's understandable to want to do everything to help your little myc fruit ;-) I have had EQ sit colonized in a jar for a month untouched and dried out, put into a small container w/ a cup of water and left sit for a week, and it fruited quite well actually. As long as you are clean enough you don't have mold on your walls and carpets you will most likely be safe, most of my contams are from doing somethings stupid on my part. *look at what the fungi go through to survive outside :-)
-------------------- ~*~I'm also an educated guesser, and knowledge seeker If I haven't done it, I know someone who has. IF I don't know, I know someone who does! I am a realist so deal with it, if you don't like it you can choose to not read it!
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exoduc
Stranger
Registered: 11/07/04
Posts: 35
Loc: NY
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: malarki]
#5824239 - 07/05/06 04:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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thanks alot for all the help. its nice to get thorough replies with in depth details. your help is greatly appreciated.
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: exoduc]
#5824382 - 07/05/06 05:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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fill jars with the 50/50. leave the lid loose and use tinfoil. put jars into a large pot with a cover. fill water in pot to 2/3 up the side of the jars. bring the water to a boil. allow to boil for five minutes. shut off the heat. remove the lid and remove the jars after they sit for 2 hours. tighten the jar lids and remove the foil. store until needed.
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: exoduc]
#5824391 - 07/05/06 05:04 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I like Roger Rabbits method of doing the 50/50 casing...
Quote:
Don't sterilize your casing material. All you need to do is kill any trich or other fungi spores that are present. That's why we only pasteurize casings. You actually want a small amount of bacteria in your casing, as it helps to promote a better flush. I would recommend pasteurizing in quart jars.
It's very easy to use your PC to pasteurize in quart jars. Load your field capacity casing material or compost/manure into quart jars and place in the PC. Fill with COLD water 1/2 to 2/3 of the way up the jars. Place the jars in your PC or other large covered pot with COLD water Cover and turn on the stove. Do not place the weight on your pc. Leave the vent open. Allow the water to come to a boil where you can feel steam escaping from the vent hole. Allow steam to escape for five minutes, but no longer. Shut off the stove and leave the PC alone for 1/2 an hour. Then repeat the process...bring it back up to a boil. Allow steam to escape for five minutes, but no longer. Shut off the stove and leave the PC alone for 2 hours. At that time, you can remove the jars and they'll be just right. I've used this tek for years, and the interior of the jars will reach 150F for an hour, but never exceed 170F.
When you are measuring out your peat...for every cup of peat add 1 teaspoon of lime and 1 tablespoon of gypsum. Keep it dry til you are done mixing it all up....dry mix it!~ Then add the water to the peat, gypsum and lime. After that let it sit for an hour or so. Then test the ph. It should be right on ph wise. Then add your verm into the mix...after doing the above. 1 cup of verm for every cup of peat that you used.
I just used his method several days ago... and it worked wonderfully!~

what I did...
5 cups of peat 5 teaspoons of Lime 5 tablespoons of gypsum
mixed that up really good dry...
then added 5 cups of water...
mixed that up really good!~
let it set for 1 hour...tested the ph and it was right on the money!~
then added...
5 cups of Verm
and mixed that up really good!~
and it filled up 4 quart jars with the casing material.
and then I followed the rest of his instructions.
I like how the mycelium is coming through nice and evenly...already.
to Roger!~
tc
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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acidbuba
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/06
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Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: Roadkill]
#5878377 - 07/19/06 04:45 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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do you have to put the top on the quart jars while they are in the PC for pasturizing?
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: acidbuba]
#5878638 - 07/19/06 06:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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You have to cover them to keep water from dripping off the lid of the pot and into the jars, screwing up the moisture content. You can simply cover with foil. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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FriendlyNeighbor
Good neighbor

Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 136
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: Roadkill]
#6776688 - 04/11/07 07:36 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Load your field capacity casing material or compost/manure into quart jars and place in the PC. Fill with COLD water 1/2 to 2/3 of the way up the jars. Place the jars in your PC or other large covered pot with COLD water
RogerRabbit, so we add additional water into the quart jars after loading our material that is already at field capacity? Correct?
Do we simply drain it off real well after the pasteurizing and cooling process?
Regards, FriendlyNeighbor
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BarakaZulu
Silent Walker


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 46
Loc: Darkest Afrika
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: FriendlyNeighbor]
#6776807 - 04/11/07 08:17 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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I ran out of PC'd casing and cooked a batch in a big steel bowl with heavy duty foil on top (tight seal). 1.5 hours at 350 deg then let it cool overnight without opening the oven. Seems to have worked.
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Dr. Greenthumb
HipHopHead 4Life


Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 333
Last seen: 17 days, 10 hours
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: BarakaZulu]
#6777020 - 04/11/07 09:23 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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I nuked verm/coir. Never had a problem. If it ain't broke don't fix it I say eve though everyone says not to sterilize.
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: Dr. Greenthumb]
#6777137 - 04/11/07 10:01 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yea some people have good results with sterilizing,its a matter of preference,there was a big debate on it not all that long ago that I am sure you could find in a search
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OldSpice
Geritol Breath...



Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 59,080
Loc: Crankytown, Texas
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: Blutjager]
#6777146 - 04/11/07 10:04 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Opinions only has 1 P
-------------------- So hard to be ....WDWGFH? Texas is humongus compared to France Our Gair, who art in Texas, Paw Paw be thy Name.... My friends are thirsty
You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrist office
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boatshow
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: FriendlyNeighbor]
#6777243 - 04/11/07 10:28 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
FriendlyNeighbor said:
Quote:
Load your field capacity casing material or compost/manure into quart jars and place in the PC. Fill with COLD water 1/2 to 2/3 of the way up the jars. Place the jars in your PC or other large covered pot with COLD water
RogerRabbit, so we add additional water into the quart jars after loading our material that is already at field capacity? Correct?
Do we simply drain it off real well after the pasteurizing and cooling process?
Regards, FriendlyNeighbor
No man, no additional water. He's talking about putting the jars in the PC, then adding water to the PC until the water level is 1/2 to 1/3 of the way up the sides of the jars. It wouldn't make any sense to bring something to field capacity only to add water to it, would it now?
-------------------- I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, Dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix, Angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: boatshow]
#6777262 - 04/11/07 10:33 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
No man, no additional water. He's talking about putting the jars in the PC, then adding water to the PC until the water level is 1/2 to 1/3 of the way up the sides of the jars. It wouldn't make any sense to bring something to field capacity only to add water to it, would it now?
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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OldSpice
Geritol Breath...



Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 59,080
Loc: Crankytown, Texas
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6777271 - 04/11/07 10:35 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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I threw out the rest of my corn
-------------------- So hard to be ....WDWGFH? Texas is humongus compared to France Our Gair, who art in Texas, Paw Paw be thy Name.... My friends are thirsty
You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrist office
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FriendlyNeighbor
Good neighbor

Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 136
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: steralizing casing soil.....a little help please [Re: OldSpice]
#6777586 - 04/12/07 12:09 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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I thought so. Thanks!
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