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Offline76degrees
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PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting
    #5819822 - 07/04/06 12:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I'm on my 18th day of incubation and a few of my jars are near full colonization. From what I have read, It is not clear if I should cold shock + "dunk & roll". I've been looking for the tek, but for some reason i can not find it. From the many posts I have read there seem to be differing opinions. Some say cold shocking is over rated. Some say dunking and rolling is not neccessary with cakes. Anyway, can someone link me to some teks and/or offer some decisive input. I know patience is a virtue, but I'm really anticipating this stage because this is the first time (second attempt) I've made it this far. Thank you all very much for your time. BTW, HAPPY FUCKING 4th of JULY!!!! :mushroom2: :-D


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The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.


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InvisiblePremedman1
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: 76degrees]
    #5819956 - 07/04/06 01:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Cubensis is a sub-tropical species, which does not require cold-shocking, and in most cases it only delays the pinning process. If your cakes are almost fully colonized in only 18 days, very little drying of the substrate should have occured. They should contain plenty of water for a good first flush. Just roll them in verm, mist the hell out of them, and fruit. After a good first flush is when dunking really becomes beneficial, or if your original colonization time extends beyond a month.


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OfflineDr_Weird
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: 76degrees]
    #5820019 - 07/04/06 01:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Cold shocking is only necessary for preventing bacterial growth when you are dunking. Also wait a few days after the jars look fully colonized to make sure the center is colonized. Then roll them to add a pseudo-casing layer. After your first flush is a good time to dunk/roll.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: Premedman1]
    #5820026 - 07/04/06 01:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

definitely don't cold shock.  not needed, not beneficial, and a waste of time!  i think there's so much confusion because you should dunk under refrigeration, but the point there is to keep bacteria from growing in the dunking water... its got nothing to do with shocking the cake.

i disagree with above though, i'd dunk before your first flush.  its true that there's a good deal of moisture in there and the cake won't absorb much... but its an easy step and it will absorb some.  your first flush is always gonna be the best, so why not make it really good?

rolling however is optional IMO, i find it a pain in the ass.  double-ended casing works just fine - take your jar lid and ring, and turn it upside down - voila, its like a little bowl.  fill it with verm, mist it down til its good and wet and set the cake on top.  sprinkle some verm on top of the cake and mist it too, hence the double-end.  you get your pins where the moisture is held near the cake, so in a double-ended case you'll get pins on top of the cake, and around the bottom edge.  if you roll, you might get a few along the sides but ive never found it to be too useful and just messy to deal with.  its up to you, certainly doesn't hurt anything and can help you a tiny bit, so decide if you want to put forth the effort :smile:

pins on DE cakes:


pins on a rolled cake:


those are pretty typical, notice the rolled cake has its pins in the same spots as the DE cakes anyway? your mileage may vary so play around with it and see what you prefer :thumbup:


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: creamcorn]
    #5820160 - 07/04/06 02:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> your first flush is always gonna be the best,

WAY not true. With cakes the first flush is often the worst. IME the 2nd is almost always the best, with 1st and 3rd usually neck in neck.


-FF


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Offlinekranked
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: fastfred]
    #5820170 - 07/04/06 02:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It's not "really" cold shocking, well kinda. Cubes are incubated between 82-86F depending upon opinion and fruited between 68-74F also depending on opinion. When the temp is lowered it doesn't really shock them, it just let's them know it's time to kick shit into high gear, more like a biological alarm clock of sorts.


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InvisiblePremedman1
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: kranked]
    #5820185 - 07/04/06 02:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

>>>>>It's not "really" cold shocking

I'm sure he's talking about "shocking" in a refrigerator. I don't know about you, but my refridgerator runs at about 40 deg F.


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Build a man a fire, he is warm for the night. Set a man on fire, he is warm for the rest of his life.


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Offlinekranked
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: Premedman1]
    #5820200 - 07/04/06 02:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Premedman1 said:
>>>>>It's not "really" cold shocking

I'm sure he's talking about "shocking" in a refrigerator. I don't know about you, but my refridgerator runs at about 40 deg F.




Sorry, I didn't use the best choice of words, and I didn't catch the part about the refrigerator, so I guess it would be considered "cold shocking".


--------------------
"When it went off in New Mexico, that first atomic bomb, we thought of Alfred Nobel and his hope, his vain hope, that dynamite would put an end to all war"

-Robert Oppenheimer 1945


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Offline76degrees
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: kranked]
    #5820342 - 07/04/06 03:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I've heard that a 10 degree drop is all that is needed to initiate pinning. So, I'm guessing that once I put it in the FC, the combination of the drop from 86F to 76F should be sufficient to induce fruiting. Then I just wait for an unspecified amount of time all the way up to 30 days in some cases. Correct? What say you?


--------------------
The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: fastfred]
    #5820380 - 07/04/06 03:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
> your first flush is always gonna be the best,

WAY not true. With cakes the first flush is often the worst. IME the 2nd is almost always the best, with 1st and 3rd usually neck in neck.


-FF




well then our experiences clearly differ, because after more cakes than i can count the first flushes have very consistently been the best. i always dunk at birth before the first and treat them w/verm be it rolling or de casing, they're nicely prepared and i go for broke on that first flush and its never let me down (none of this waiting until the 2nd flush to dunk business!), and is rarely shown up by the 2nd (or later) flushes... dunno what we're doing different but i know what i've seen and its certainly true over here...


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InvisibleMagash
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: creamcorn]
    #5820542 - 07/04/06 03:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I did a test some time back with 90 cakes 45 of them cold shocked. The cold shocked ones started pinning about 2 days sooner then the ones that wern't.

The exact same test done with the exact same amount of cakes and the same strain (South American) and the results were 50/50. Final result, pretty much a un-needed step.

Dunking test showed bigger shrooms with cakes that were dunked almost 95% of the time.

Dunk and Roll is a tek I came up with so it isn't all to fair for me to comment on it but this is why I came up with it


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OfflinedjInfctdMushroom
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: Magash]
    #5820609 - 07/04/06 04:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

click on the the link the that says dunk tek VIDEO
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\ /
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po box'x and bowling alleys are a growers best freind :thumbup:
No statements made in any post or message by any persons and/or parties should be constructed to concieve means or measures that I am now, or have ever been, involved in or considering participation or involvement in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction and thats a fact.  dunking tek video  knock substrate tek video  rye grain knock tek video
i asian.. self explanitory right


Edited by djInfctdMushroom (07/04/06 04:18 PM)


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: djInfctdMushroom]
    #5820940 - 07/04/06 06:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> dunno what we're doing different but i know what i've seen and its certainly true over here.

Hmm... I guess I've certainly had some first flushes that were as good as the 2nd. Maybe even a few that were a tiny bit better, but I'd say that's the exception. I'll post a poll thread.


-FF


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: fastfred]
    #5820979 - 07/04/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

If you have time, FF, you should take photos and show us.

By no means am I challenging you or anything, I'm just curious, and you clearly know what you're doing, and many of us would be able to learn from your expertise.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: faceyneck]
    #5821006 - 07/04/06 06:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Sadly I have neither a camera, nor have I grown in quite some time.

I've posted a poll thread though. Maybe that will shed some light on the issue.


-FF


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: fastfred]
    #5821225 - 07/04/06 07:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Dunking is always beneficial cakes lose plenty of moisture during the substrate run and yields are noticeably better consistantly for me also I've always fridge dunked and my first flushes were all the best consistantly. Necessary or not it certainly doesn't hurt and thats a proven fact!


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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
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Offlinepocketsand
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: hyphae]
    #5821693 - 07/04/06 10:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

so if i wanted to dunk and case the top and bottom of the cake in verm before birth, should i do it before pinheads appear in the jar or after?


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Offline76degrees
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: pocketsand]
    #5823574 - 07/05/06 01:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I was just wondering if I should sterilize the vermiculite before rolling my beautiful contamn-free cake in an unsanitized substance.

UPDATE:

Nevermind. I found the answer - at last - after two days of searching on this topic. It would help if the people who run this site could consolidate the general information including the pro's con's, etc into one easy to find source. Don't get me wrong, this site is damned cool. I just have a hell of a time sorting through all of the posts to find answers to my questions which have been asked already a million times before by others.


--------------------
The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.


Edited by 76degrees (07/05/06 01:38 PM)


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: PF - Pinning / Dunking/ Rolling / Cold Shocking / Inducing Fruiting [Re: 76degrees]
    #5824498 - 07/05/06 05:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

76degrees said:
I was just wondering if I should sterilize the vermiculite before rolling my beautiful contamn-free cake in an unsanitized substance.

UPDATE:

Nevermind. I found the answer - at last - after two days of searching on this topic. It would help if the people who run this site could consolidate the general information including the pro's con's, etc into one easy to find source. Don't get me wrong, this site is damned cool. I just have a hell of a time sorting through all of the posts to find answers to my questions which have been asked already a million times before by others.



I would have been more than happy to answer such a short simple question! :wink: For those who wonder there's no need to sterilize a freshly opened bag of verm (it comes sterile) and as long as it's sealed well between uses you'll be fine but whenever in doubt PC.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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