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Offlinetonyperez420
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Preparing Rye Grain ?
    #5819090 - 07/04/06 08:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

happy fourth of july everybody...

I was getting ready to PC some rye grains I prepared in the following way:

1/2 gallon mason jar
400 grams rye grain
430 grams of water

After 20 hours, the rye grain on the very top of the jar have not soaked in water like the ones underneath... in other words about 90%-95% of the grains have fully soaked water while the top 5%-10% never get soaked like the bottom 90%-95%

I have read that it is neccessary for the rye grains to soak up the water in order for the PC'ing to kill all the contams

I have read up on the teks and it seems like I am doing everything right as far as the portions go.... my questions is

1. Will the fact that 10% of my grains are not being soaked lead to contams after PC'ing (btw you could easily see the difference after PC'ing from the grains that were soaked to the ones that were not on top)

2. Should I add more water, if so how much?

3. Can it be the tap water I use is more heavy?

I bought the grains for mycosupply if that helps...

thanks a bunch in advance!


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: tonyperez420] * 2
    #5819102 - 07/04/06 08:31 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You shouldn't be soaking in the jar.  Use a large kettle, and rinse the grains first to remove the chaff and grain dust before you begin the soak.

In the tek below, coffee is optional, so if you use plain water, skip the addition of lime.  You still need gypsum though.

My rye tek:
Measure out your organic rye berries from a health food store, one cup for each quart jar you intend to make. Place them in a large pot. Rinse the heck out of them. Fill the pot with hot tap water, shake and swirl it around and pour it out. Do this three or four times until the water you pour out is clear. You'll be able to see when you have nice clean water to pour off instead of water filled with chaff and dirt. You want to now cover the rye berries with three times as much hot tap water as you have rye. Use half coffee and half plain water. In other words, if you have two inches of rye in the bottom of your pan, you should have six inches of water/coffee above that, for a total of 8 inches.  Add 1/4 teaspoon per cup of rye of gypsum. Stir these into the water/grain well. Cover and leave this to sit for 4-24 hours. Stir well and set the pot on the stove. Bring to a boil. Boil for ten minutes if you've soaked 24 hours or up to 30 minutes if you've only soaked 4 hours, then, WHILE BOILING, drain the contents through a very large colander. (spaghetti strainer) If you're making a large batch, you may need more than one colander. Tip the colander side to side to get the rye to drain as much of the water as you can. Then, shake the colander in order to 'toss' the grain. This will cause a lot of steam to rise from your rye. Great. Do this a time or two, then let it sit for five minutes, then repeat. When all the moisture that will drip or evaporate from your rye has already done so, load your jars. The rye should look and feel dry to the touch when you load the jars. All the moisture you need is inside the grain. Fill jars no more than 2/3 full if they are to receive grain to grain transfers, or no more than 3/4 full if they are to be inoculated by spore syringe or agar wedge. Use a lid with a synthetic filter disk, polyfill, tyvek or similar. Cover with foil and PC the jars for at least 90 minutes at 15lbs. I use 120 minutes. When the jars are cool, they're ready to inoculate.
RR


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OfflineTheFish
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: tonyperez420]
    #5819103 - 07/04/06 08:31 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I've been using mycosupply's rye for a couple of months.

All I ever followed was Magash's tek.

If you add the grains to a pot of water in the 120 degree area and heat it to 200 degrees over the span of 45 minutes, then allow it to cool off to around 180 naturally, I find that myco's grains are bulging, which has given me a quick growth rate. Use a candy thermometer, I've found that it helps to get the process just right.

Good luck.


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Says, 'Don't you see?'
Gotta make it somehow on the dreams you still believe.
Don't give it up.
You got an empty cup only love can fill."

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Offlinetonyperez420
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: TheFish]
    #5819117 - 07/04/06 08:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

thanks, I got a PC, I am going to try RR's way

thanks thank thanks!!!


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: tonyperez420]
    #5819121 - 07/04/06 08:42 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Where do people keep getting this water to grain ratio idea? We need to find that and fix it.


-FF


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: fastfred]
    #5819377 - 07/04/06 10:16 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

?????

It is a standard for preparation of small amounts of rye.
Where from the grain to water ration you ask?
Paul Stamets for instance.
Or Peter Oei.

I had nothing but GREAT results from adding equal amounts per weight of rye and water to a filter lid fitted jar and pressure cooking for an hour.

See http://fungifun.org/English/Grain-For-Simple-Minds


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: Anno]
    #5819623 - 07/04/06 11:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

And look at the results...


The top part is dry and the bottom is too wet. I realize that you shake them up, but that hardly seems optimal.

Trying to use a ratio causes people to end up soaking part of the grain and leaving the top dry. I've seen quite a few people run into problems with this method.

Isn't it better to just soak the grain in an excess of water? It's a lot simpler and seems to avoid a lot of the pitfalls of trying to use a ratio.

I've never tried just mixing the two and PCing, so I won't argue with you, but it seems rather problem prone to me. I didn't realize that anyone still did it that way. Would you enlighten us as to why you would do it that way rather than soak, optional simmer, drain, and then PC?


-FF


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: fastfred]
    #5819652 - 07/04/06 11:40 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

No, you look at the results.

After shaking them up and after 2 days, perfect:



>I've never tried just mixing the two and PCing

Well, I did.

>Would you enlighten us as to why you would do it that way rather than soak, optional simmer, drain, and then PC?

Time and general simplicity.
You simply measure the ingredients, fill into the jar and pressure cook.
No waiting 2 days for water absorption, no simmering, no draining....

It is a very hassle free way of preparing grain.

I suggest you read the above link and prepare the grain this way yourself.

And, don't miss this part:

"The water absorption ability can vary depending on the grain quality and the type and the size of the pressure cooker. It's best to make a batch of test jars when one acquires a new grain for instance 100g rye and 100, 105, 110, 115 and 120g water. Then you'll see which water content provides the best result."


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: Anno]
    #5819764 - 07/04/06 12:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Paul still teaches that method at his seminars. Adding a pinch of gypsum will help with clumping, but my main gripe with that mehod is it doens't rinse the grains first to get rid of the dust and chaff that causes clumping. Lately, Paul shows that method without measuring at all. Simply fill the jar about half full with grains, then add water until it barely covers the top of the grains, then add a pinch of gypsum and PC. It works ok, but I still prefer my method even though it's more work.
RR


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5819810 - 07/04/06 12:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

>Simply fill the jar about half full with grains, then add water until it barely
>covers the top of the grains, then add a pinch of gypsum and PC

Sure, you can do that if you are Paul who has 30 years of cultivation experience... :wink:. If you are a beginner, weigh it and keep notes.

Also, the "barely covers the grain" only works with one paricular kind of jars. If the jars are taler, or wider, it won't work.

One thing I would like to add: While the measure and fill method is well suited for  not to copious amounts of jars, when doing bags, I also soak and simmer the grain.

Also interesting, the grain spawn producers (Amycel, Somycel and alike...) simmer the grain without prior soaking.


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Offlinetonyperez420
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: Anno]
    #5826940 - 07/06/06 08:44 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Anno said:
Also, the "barely covers the grain" only works with one paricular kind of jars. If the jars are taler, or wider, it won't work.





I dont understand what you mean by this.... 200 grams of water occupies the exactly same amount of space regardless the size of the jar
The same holds true for grains.... or for anything you measure by volume


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Offlinetonyperez420
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: tonyperez420]
    #5826947 - 07/06/06 08:48 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

So if I use the old fashion traditional method of putting the grains and water in a mason jar... I guess I should add more water

I use for 1/2 gallon jars
400 grams rye grains
430 grams of water
2 grams gypsum

I am going to try 440g 450g 460g 470g 480g all on one syringe and see which colonizes the quickest!

I am assuming it is very important for all the grains to soak up water, so I will see how much water I have to add in order for this to happen


Edited by tonyperez420 (07/06/06 08:50 AM)


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: tonyperez420]
    #5827140 - 07/06/06 10:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tonyperez420 said:
Quote:

Anno said:
Also, the "barely covers the grain" only works with one particular kind of jars. If the jars are taler, or wider, it won't work.





I dont understand what you mean by this.... 200 grams of water occupies the exactly same amount of space regardless the size of the jar
The same holds true for grains.... or for anything you measure by volume




No...
Look at this picture. Each jar contains exactly 75 g of rye and 75 g of water.



With the jar on the right, the water "just barely" covers the grain.

With the jar on the left though, the water doesn't "just barely" cover the grain, although the amount of water and rye is exactly the same as in the jar on the right.

Do you understand now why the "just barely" method only works with one kind of jars?


Also, I would start with 400 g rye and 400g water.


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Offlinetonyperez420
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: Anno]
    #5827190 - 07/06/06 10:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I see what you mean now, lol I am pretty stoned

the more slender, tall the jar, the less surface space... hence more grains will be under water....
gotya!  :wink:

well I got ball wide mouth 1/2gallon jars (use 90mm filter disc)
about 10 inches tall

I cannot use 400 grams of water for 400 grams of grains... I am having a problem as it is now with 430 grams of water... I am actually going to get some jars ready in about 1-2 hours here and Ill take a pic.... but I have in mind to use at least 440 grams this time around

Ill be around :bouncysmoke:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: tonyperez420]
    #5827217 - 07/06/06 10:55 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

What it means is if you want to do it the easy way, you'll have to experiment with whatever size jar or bag you're going to use, then make adjustments as needed. Personally, I like the rinse, soak, simmer, drain and load method although it's more work. Of course, even with that method, you'll have to experiment a bit. If your grain comes out too wet or dry, fix whatever is wrong on the next batch. After a few times, it becomes automatic.

As a side note, preparing your grain jars slightly on the dry side results in a bit faster colonization. This isn't a problem if you're using them as spawn to bulk substrates, but if you plan to fruit from only the cased grains, performance will suffer.
RR


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Offlinetonyperez420
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5834963 - 07/08/06 12:19 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

well I got to making some jars today and....

this is what I used
1/2 gallon wide mouth jars
400 grams rye grains
430 grams of water
2 grams gypsum

I made them about 4 hours ago and the water and grains are at equal level at the moment.... I am wondering if I should add more water?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: tonyperez420]
    #5835118 - 07/08/06 01:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

PC it, then wait and see how it comes out. Adjust as necessary for the next time. I've already posted my method previously.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

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Offlinetonyperez420
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5835178 - 07/08/06 01:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
PC it, then wait and see how it comes out. Adjust as necessary for the next time. I've already posted my method previously.
RR




Your right bro, but I wanted to stick to the conventional method, yours is too time consuming, I apologize

At the moment 5 hours have passed and the rye grains and water level are exactly the same, there is no excess water and the grains can still absorb more water

I used 430 grams of water and was wondering if I should add 20-30 grams more


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Offlinetonyperez420
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: tonyperez420]
    #5835540 - 07/08/06 03:06 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

about 7 hours have passed and.....

I am still wondering if I should add more water?


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Offlinetonyperez420
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Re: Preparing Rye Grain ? [Re: tonyperez420]
    #5836539 - 07/08/06 06:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

:bongload:

I guess I will leave it the way it is


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