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Offlinematt66
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Registered: 03/17/02
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Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
evolution/reciprocity
    #581733 - 03/17/02 11:09 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

In their natural environment mushrooms reproduce at extrememly high levels to ensure that the species will survive and endure. In other words, if ancestral man was in need of something to eat, mushrooms would have been easy to procure. Eating this fungus for sustenance, the result could be either lethal to the untrained eye, functional by fulfilling its nutritional purposes, or enhancing in cases of the concsiousness expanding varieties. This paradoxical duality of mushrooms is consistent with evoutinary theory and philosophy (that which creates life destroys it). Working our way up the food chain from the producers to the consumers, it stands to reason that expanded consciousness is inseperable from evolution. Changes in perception and patterns of thought represent movement (be it forward/backward/upwards/downwards) leading in the direction of variation and evolutionary change. Is this where our species is going, came from, both, neither, or perhaps the best answer, all of the above? Our friend Darwin said that evolution favored altruism, a theme consistent with Confucian reciprocity teachings and, I would like to think, those who have broken through the fallacies, pretenses, and self-imposed response mechanisms with which we hold ourselves captive. Therefore if you have anything extra you would be willing to part with (I would pay shipping of course), your return will be of much more importance and interest than currency I can promise. I am seriously considering writing a book about the DESTRUCTIVE IMPACT caused by supressing this natural gift. I have tripped once...mildly, but I feel a slight disgust that someone could be making money off something which seems inherently opposed to money and all that it implies. While I may ultimately go the route of a grow kit, any responses ar welcome: mlieb@wesleyan.edu. Thank you all


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Truth is the daughter of time, time doesn't exist...
Truth cannot exist within the human convention of time- The Goat Hath Spoken


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: matt66]
    #581790 - 03/18/02 12:14 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I feel a slight disgust that someone could be making money off something which seems inherently opposed to money and all that it implies.

I couldn't agree more.  Selling mushrooms or any other psychedelic drug in my opinion just perpetuates the power and status-driven values of modern society and goes against the positive change and social evolution which the drug is supposed to represent.  However, these days the people who are motivated enough to obtain the quantites it takes to distribute are motivated by profit.  I wish more people would realize this is dumb but unfortunately the message alludes most. 

Sorry, I am not in possession of anything right now, but if I were, I'd be sure to share the bounty :smile: 


Edited by skaMariaPastora (03/18/02 12:16 AM)


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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: evolution/reciprocity *DELETED* [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #581900 - 03/18/02 03:02 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Lallafa

Reason for deletion: z



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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: Lallafa]
    #582065 - 03/18/02 09:02 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah maybe you're right. Selling drugs is proably a necessarily evil. Of course I'm not asking people to take a personal loss on each sale, but making money off of someone's desire to contact the spirit world (or whatever you do) somehow doesn't rub me right. I've been the middleman for a few transactions in the past, and I remember the desire to make a quick buck off someone else without them knowing any better won out over the desire to help out a friend. And that sucks. I think we should work toward a more cooperative society. And being a drug dealer is no different than working for a big corporation or something in achieving this end IMO. But I guess not everyone shares this idealism.


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: matt66]
    #582078 - 03/18/02 09:25 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I had a dream once that if you grow this sacred sacrament your self you will form a bond with its spirit that you can never get by buying it.


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Offlineiangato
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Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: Lallafa]
    #582114 - 03/18/02 10:36 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

if people were not motivated by profit then these drugs would already be around. if we didn't live with a government which tries to control your thoughts and state of mind then i believe these would be readilly accessible. the government stops the distribution of these drugs which makes people jack prices up or charge money just for the trouble of sneeking this shit around. if humans weren't so into money and power then maybe we would all have the skills needed for cultivation. reason being, we would be gardeners, hunters, gatherers and we would trade our finds, not sell them. non of us really own the shit we buy, most of the time it owns us. i hate money. money is the worst addiction. people can't go one day without it. they need it. why, because the government tells us we do. they made t.v.'s so they could control us in our homes too. opiate us, feed us propaganda and the models of life, what we should be and what we should want. but it's not what i want at all, it's what they want for me. this world is goin down the shitter. adios. peace.


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a blurry dot dances among the shadows
bends the light
and fizzles into my pink and glowing mind

-ian gato


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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: iangato]
    #582123 - 03/18/02 10:48 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, if everyone were hunters and gatherers it would be a much better world,
there would be no murder, war, disease, sadness or starvation.
oh, and as many synthetic drugs you would ever need would be free for the taking
its the government that makes us want money man, you know?
we should just like, burn down the government and do away with money


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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #582151 - 03/18/02 11:14 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Here we display the usual nonsensensical dualilty. Without spore vendors, jar vendors, PC vendors, etc., there would be no proliferation of the psilocybe species and no shroomery.

Food is way more sacred (life-sustaining) than any mushroom, yet no one has a problem buying and selling that. Trade is trade. Get off the righteous bandwagon and be internally consistent. The only problem with selling is in legality issues not morality.

Please remeber that others that took an arbitrary moral stance made the little fungi illegal. I hardly think that we need more of the same type of posturing that created the WOD.



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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisiblePsilocyberSpace
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Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: Swami]
    #582159 - 03/18/02 11:22 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Please stop prescribing peoples philosophical believes.


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Ours is not a better way, ours is merely another way.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: PsilocyberSpace]
    #582183 - 03/18/02 11:56 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

And who is it that is trying to push their philosophical belief? I merely pointed out the inconsistency with the poster's stance.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: Swami]
    #582193 - 03/18/02 12:06 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

And I was merely expressing my distaste for capitalistic society. I wasn't really expecting any change, just venting really.


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Offlinematt66
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Registered: 03/17/02
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Loc: Connecticut
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Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: Swami]
    #582239 - 03/18/02 12:44 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Forgive me for not looking at the big picture, as I agree with much of what you say, but food being more sacred, which you define as life-sustaining, than mushrooms is not a fair asessment. We put feul in our cars to keep the engine running, so we can travel the same roads together, roads leading to marked destinations set up for our use (what "Iangato" was alluding to earlier). Food just keeps the engines running. Mushrooms open the door to your car so you can get out and wander on your own and form a PERSONAL relationshionship with the earth, not the force-fed version repackaged/reconstituted/fortfied and homogenized so that we're all on the same page version. People are different and I never put much stock in practicality, so you have me there. I just know how good I feel when I can give someone a special gift, like a finger painting or something I found in the woods. I think that most internet distributers of spores etc. are providing a valuable service, keeping this increadible gift just a click away so that others can experience, enjoy, and become produces themselves. But if we throw around the term nature's GIFT so often, are we not inseperable from nature and therefore disrupting this comforting philosphy by putting a value on what would then become an increadible "item". I simply want my personal viewpoint to come across clearly. Practical thinking means becoming enmeshed in the network of the present day, be it a necessary evil or whatever. Idealistic? What's wrong with that. Any response/help welcome mlieb@wesleyan.edu. Thank you all


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Truth is the daughter of time, time doesn't exist...
Truth cannot exist within the human convention of time- The Goat Hath Spoken


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: matt66]
    #582262 - 03/18/02 01:13 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

but food being more sacred, which you define as life-sustaining, than mushrooms is not a fair asessment.
Without life, there can be no assessment of life. Nonexistence = nonexploration. This is basic and not some Swami philosophy.

The Swami philosophy says there is nothing sacred (or all is sacred). To say that this plant is special and that one is not, seems ludicrous to me as it is all arbitrary and all creatures have their place / function in the ecology.

Amanita Muscaris: sacred
Destroying Angel: not sacred

Psilocybe Cubensis: sacred
Gymnopilus: not sacred (because it contains less psilocybin)

Peyote: very sacred
San Pedro: moderately sacred
Prickly-Pear Cactus: not sacred

Cannibis Sativa: sacred
Hemp: not sacred

Tobacco: sacred to some, devil-weed to others

Can you not see how silly these distinctions become and further divide the world?


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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (03/18/02 05:52 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: matt66]
    #582279 - 03/18/02 01:42 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

mat66:
"Therefore if you have anything extra you would be willing to part with
(I would pay shipping of course), your return will be of much more importance
and interest than currency I can promise."

"I feel a slight disgust that someone could be making money off something which
seems inherently opposed to money and all that it implies."


If your looking for a handout, don't candy coat it in philosophical mumbo jumbo.
Just be honest and tell everyone you're broke and want something for free (but
you'll pay shipping, of course). I've heard the same spiel countless times from
winos on the street.

Doesn't this belong in the spore exchange forum?


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: Swami]
    #582357 - 03/18/02 03:04 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Sacred-ness is a subjective thing. I don't believe anything is intrinsically sacred (well actually I think that *everything* is), but a thing can be "more sacred" than another purely by how a person views it... But as you pointed out this is tricky because it can easily lead to dividing of the world.

Hmm I suppose that's just the way it is, maybe it only becomes a problem when a person or group of people have power over another.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: Revelation]
    #582644 - 03/18/02 08:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

it only becomes a problem when a person or group of people have power over another.
Bingo.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinematt66
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Registered: 03/17/02
Posts: 126
Loc: Connecticut
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: ]
    #583300 - 03/19/02 01:31 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

i hear you evolving. gracias.


--------------------
Truth is the daughter of time, time doesn't exist...
Truth cannot exist within the human convention of time- The Goat Hath Spoken


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: ]
    #583325 - 03/19/02 01:53 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

If your looking for a handout, don't candy coat it in philosophical mumbo jumbo.
If one can't use philosophical mumbo-jumbo, then how should one candy-coat their begging?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinemagnu
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Registered: 03/11/02
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Re: evolution/reciprocity [Re: Lallafa]
    #584252 - 03/20/02 03:08 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

i agree with a lot that is being said here, but my idealism is not going to pay my bills. please don't think i've given up, but the mundane aspects of life are a reality. i'm sure some of you are pretty young, and perhaps have not had to pay for all your own everything yet, but you will. it's very hard not to, ah, temper your ideals with a good dose of pragmatism, as the years go on. the ones who 'sell out' are the ones who completely give up on any ideals, and the world is full of them, i'm sure you've seen. that's the easy way. just give up and give in.

the hard way is to try to keep your ideals as far as possible while keeping yourself alive. it's very hard to not be a part of society on some level. how many of us would be a complete hermit if we could? i'm not always happy with living in a great mass of billions of humans, all of them out for number one, but that's the deal. the current systems of money and government are highly flawed, but were probably much worse in the past. do you have skills and goods you could barter for everything you need in life?

however, chucking the whole mess will not work for many reasons. for one, to adress your post, lallafa, if everyone were hunter/gatherers, who would manufacture those synthetic drugs you want? and while i won't defend war in any way, disease and starvation are parts of the natural world, and human nature being what it is, murder and sadness and such will always be a part of life.

good grief, i sound like i'm actually defending the system! i'm not, but after many years thinking about this stuff, i believe there should be some balanced middle ground between *young/carefree/irresponsible* and *old/dour/stodgy* <(not quite)

in brief, i try to be a responsible human, doing my job to pay my bills without hurting anyone needlessly, and trying to do some extra good for someone wherever i can. i would sell shrooms (or anything harmless) for money, but i wouldn't do something damaging to others or destructive to nature if possible. i try not to take advantage of another just because i can, and pay back by doing things for others (for example, i would also try to give shrooms away for free sometimes).

this is a deep subject, i'll gather my thoughts and wait to respond (i'm sure to have someone take me up on some of this).

tread lightly upon the Earth.







--------------------
if you hurt yourself having fun,
you stop having fun.


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