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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 days
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Re: sun staring [Re: Viveka]
#5824225 - 07/05/06 04:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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But to refuse to give the theory or its proponents a little bit of neutral examination
what theory? there is no theory. how does this work? are yogis able to transform energy into matter? can they perform nuclear chemistry and photosynthesis in their bodies? how? i'm all ears here.
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Trepiodos
Disgustipated


Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 469
Loc: Los Angeles County Jail
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: sun staring [Re: Viveka]
#5824527 - 07/05/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Viveka said: I say a more lamentable form of ignorance is displayed by the mind that outright rejects the possibility.
Huh? That is not ignorance, that is rejecting the possibility. Two different concepts.
It is perfectly reasonable (pending more information) to dismiss something with no basis in verifiable facts, with no precedents in the animal kingdom, with no theory whatsoever. If you care to respond to the following which I already have asked, I am perfectly willing to consider the subject in greater depth:
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Trepiodos asked: Can you cite any other animals that get their energy directly from the sun, with no need for other nutrients? How is nitrogen miraculously extracted from the air and used to build protein in people supposedly using these 'techniques?' How are minerals provided for the functioning of their bodies?
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But to refuse to give the theory or its proponents a little bit of neutral examination means that one might be missing an opportuniy to learn something.
Many of us would gladly examine the theory should one exist. I have already asked about mechanisms which underlie the claims, but no intelligent responses have been forthcoming. If you care to defend the claims, perhaps you can provide some facts to back them up, or in the very least a plausible explanation.
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Furthermore, the habit of immediately rejecting possibilities because they don't align with one's empirical construct of the world is no good for the imagination.
If the claims cannot be verified, if there are no precedents in biology, should one blindly accept any assertion no matter how outlandish? If I were to post here that I can grow wings and fly through mere wish alone, would it be an intelligent response by you to accept it without a reasonable explanation and verification? The purpose of keeping an open mind is to be able to grasp something of substance should it be encountered, it is not to blithely shove under your hat any bovine excrement that happens to be plopped onto your path.
--------------------
And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
Edited by Trepiodos (07/05/06 05:42 PM)
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Jim


Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 20,922
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Re: sun staring [Re: Viveka]
#5825659 - 07/05/06 10:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I tried this for a few days...
results were sunspots...
-------------------- Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit! afoaf said: Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.
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Viveka
refutation bias


Registered: 10/21/02
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Re: sun staring [Re: wilshire]
#5825975 - 07/05/06 11:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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what theory? there is no theory.
The theory in essence is simple. Nutritional requirements derived from digested food can be replaced by obtaining energy directly from the sun. This is possibly accomplished through a conversion of exisiting glandular or other biological machinery or possibly an awakening of latent capability already present in said machinery. It could also be attributed to some other process in addition to or different from this. If this doesn't merit the term 'theory' to you, replace the word theory with idea, hypothesis, purported phenomenon, whatever is acceptable to you. This theory, like all theories, is a conjecture based on limited information. If you would like more detail from the people allegedly studying this in more depth, read pages 68-70 of the link I initially posted. Read more of it if you like. The more you read of it, the less you'll have to ask me to feed you information about the subject you wish to debate.
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mikeownow
Humungus fungus

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 2,856
Loc: WA,USA
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Re: sun staring [Re: Viveka]
#5825999 - 07/06/06 12:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Dude I just found out from some sources that I won't show you. NASA tested it out and is still working on it but here is how it works.
OK first you have to lay on one of though memory foam beds made by NASA. Then you have to pee on yourself in the bed. Then flip over and shit and roll it down your back. Once it gets to your head flop it next to you and breath its therapeutic smell for 10 seconds. Every day breath for 10 more seconds. After breathing you must then consume half and put the other half back up your ass. Repeat and if you are fasting and no longer pooping its OK just don't fast for more than 2 weeks.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Viveka
refutation bias


Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: sun staring [Re: Trepiodos]
#5826336 - 07/06/06 01:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quote: Viveka said: I say a more lamentable form of ignorance is displayed by the mind that outright rejects the possibility.
Huh? That is not ignorance, that is rejecting the possibility. Two different concepts.
I said outright reject, as in "from the get go", without first considering the material in any more depth than the basic statement of the purported phenomenon.
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It is perfectly reasonable (pending more information) to dismiss something with no basis in verifiable facts, with no precedents in the animal kingdom, with no theory whatsoever.
Perfectly reasonable yes, still a form of ignorance, arguably yes. This is evidenced by your assertion of no theory whatsoever when, in fact, there are statements, principles and hypotheses, albeit loose ones, stated by mystics and endocrinologists alike regarding sungazing, some of which can be found in the link i posted. But this is my point, your outright rejection of the idea led you to remain ignorant to these.
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Trepiodos asked: Can you cite any other animals that get their energy directly from the sun, with no need for other nutrients?
Irrelevant to the purported phenomenon of human beings doing the same.
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How is nitrogen miraculously extracted from the air and used to build protein in people supposedly using these 'techniques?' How are minerals provided for the functioning of their bodies?
It is not my burden to demonstrate to you in emprically acceptable terms how this is possible, since i am making no claim that this is possible through sungazing. My interest in the topic has almost nothing to do with proving or disproving this alleged feat and everything to do with exploring this world and all the nuances of life within and without from perspectives that stimulate the imagination. I also enjoy texts like Mahabharata, the Vedas, Bhagavad Gita which allude to a similar mystical aesthetic. Non-eating is secondary to the practice of sungazing, even Manek himself says that sungazing shouldn't necesarily lead to it.
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If you care to defend the claims, perhaps you can provide some facts to back them up, or in the very least a plausible explanation.
I really don't care to. As i stated in another reply, feel free to peruse the document I posted yesterday. The essence of the scientific, however speculative, side of the theory involves the endocrine system. Glands in general have always been an interesting topic i think. Secreting all sorts of stimulating fluids and molecules into the soup, altering chemical pathways and encouraging new tissue responses. I am intrigued by the virtually mythical status the pineal gland enjoys. Less than 50 years ago it was believed to be a useless remnant of a larger organ, but it has since been shown to produce little understood hormones. I am not asserting anything by this, only that the unfolding mystery of the human organism continues to be just that, a mystery.
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If the claims cannot be verified, if there are no precedents in biology, should one blindly accept any assertion no matter how outlandish?
Who said anything about blindly accepting assertions? The other extreme would be to cast the information away at first glance, along with any insights it may lead to.
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If I were to post here that I can grow wings and fly through mere wish alone, would it be an intelligent response by you to accept it without a reasonable explanation and verification?
Nope, just like it wouldn't be intelligent for you to accept at face value a post I made claiming that I could gaze at the sun instead of eating food. Good thing neither of us did either of those things or we'd both be idiots.
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The purpose of keeping an open mind is to be able to grasp something of substance should it be encountered, it is not to blithely shove under your hat any bovine excrement that happens to be plopped onto your path.
Another value of an open mind is recognizing that substance is also to be found beyond the realm of emipirical falsification. If you feel you might derive fulfillment and meaning from debunking Manek's claims of non-eating and the alleged scientific verification of his feat then by all means, I encourage you to do so. You'll find no resistance from me as I have no attachment to the outcome one way or another. I value critical thinking highly and I'm inclined to believe he's faking it. Also, I'm not entirely sure it's impossible. What's more important to me is that the concept captured my attention for whatever reason and in my experience, I find it is often valuable to further examine something that captures one's attention, even if the initial substance of it appears preposterous.
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 days
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Re: sun staring [Re: Viveka]
#5833105 - 07/07/06 07:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i looked at the book.
there are some psuedoscientific claims about how the pineal gland acts as a sort of solar cell which can be charged by the sun to produce energy needed for life. it doesn't say a thing about how the process works at the molecular level. maybe that just isn't understood yet...
it says nothing whatsoever about how one is to obtain the mineral nutrition required for life by staring at the sun.
i don't think i'm being overly skeptical here. some life forms on earth can derive energy from sunlight. there are biological mechanisms for doing that. no one has ever shown human beings to have this ability, but it's not a physical impossibility. it could happen.
however the part that i find the least plausible is that staring at the sun can also serve as a replacement for mineral nutrition. this would imply the ability to not only turn energy directly into matter, but to do so in extremely complex configurations like amino acids. this is extremely unlikely, but as we do not have full understanding of the universe, perhaps it is possible, and if there was credible evidence for this, i'd have to reconsider.
there is no such evidence. i've done quite a bit of searching over the past hour or two and the best i can gather about Hira Ratan Manek is that he's a total phony. the only scientific tests he's ever claimed to have submitted himself to have been to the same team of doctors. i find that rather suspect. there are also a bunch of "alternative" type sites around claiming that he was studied by NASA, or a study at the university of pennsylvania funded by NASA, where he fasted for 130 days. his own website claims he fasted for 130 days under observation at the U of PA. there is an onsite link to a PDF document that exists nowhere else on the web, and in any event doesn't support his claim. NASA has denied knowing anything about the guy. i couldn't find anything from the U of PA or the doctors who are supposed to have overseen the research there. there were certainly no articles published in any scholarly journals, as i would imagine there would be after such a feat.
his wife claims that he occasionally does eat, but just a little.
the guy doesn't live on sunlight and he doesn't do it under medical supervision. he does, on the other hand, make a lot of money taking advantage of gullible people. he's a scam artist and a liar.
other inedia scammer have humorously been caught with houses full of food or sneaking out for junk food at burger king or 7-11. several people who have tried to do what they claim to be able to do in earnest have died.
people die if they don't have food to eat. they die by the thousands every day. it's undeniable. human nutrition is well understood, and the fact that you must have food to survive is beyond question. there is not a single credible instance of a human being not dying after not eating. nor is there any plausible theory as to how something like that would work if it were observed. there are only a few far out hoaxers and a bunch more suckers who believe them.
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tak
geo's henchman



Registered: 11/20/00
Posts: 3,776
Loc: nowhereland
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Re: sun staring [Re: wilshire]
#5833142 - 07/07/06 07:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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You see this thing in plants alot, but I think that if humans could do it, then other animals would be able to as well. It is a nice thought, and kinda fun to believe, but it is kinda silly to think its true.
Humans might over indulge, and take more than what they need...and for that reason is why I think massive amounts of animals would be able to figure this out before us, as they are as earthly as it gets.
And as far as ancient civilizations worshipping the sun...
Whether is because you can stare into the sun and not have to eat, allowing us to live...or if it is because the sun allows plants and animals to survive, giving us food, and allowing us to live.
its all the same.
I really dont mind eating...I enjoy it.
You dont have to live off gas station food, and be overweight to enjoy eating. Food is a pretty important part of life...and even if you could survive without it, I wouldnt give it up.
-------------------- The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: sun staring [Re: tak]
#5834977 - 07/08/06 12:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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You dont have to live off gas station food
Hey, what's wrong with gas station food? You've obviously never eaten at Stucky's.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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musicturkey
Mitakuye Oyasin


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 303
Loc: MidWest
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Quote:
soulcircus said: iv read about this, hrm phenomena, it does sound pretty amazing, its known to make your pineal gland grow also.
Reports in rodents suggest that the pineal gland may influence the actions of drugs of abuse such as cocaine [1] and antidepressants such as fluoxetine (Prozac)[2]; and contribute to regulation of neuronal vulnerability[3]. In addition, it has been proposed by Rick Strassman that the pineal gland is responsible for manufacture of endogenous dimethyltryptamine (DMT) although this is only speculation. There are some who believe DMT has a role in dreaming and possibly near-death experiences and other mystical states, and, although not proven, it was hypothesized in 1988 by Jace Callaway that DMT is connected with visual dreaming. -Wikipedia.com Thought that was interesting
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