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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Registered: 12/15/02
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: Kras]
    #5826500 - 07/06/06 03:28 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Faith is hope, not action.

We effect reality, but we dont control it.


--------------------


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OfflineShampioenier
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MY VIEW ON "DEATH" [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #5826730 - 07/06/06 06:28 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Mindlords with their spirit slaves:"
They have seen the wings in your eyes, and because they
have not wings the mindlords enslave your spirit. But the
power of spirit is mightier than the power of the mind and
the mindlords are laid to waste as the spirit rears in
penultimate, predestined, presuppressed majesty. To see you
aglow in the snow, oh loving eskimo. Deep in a forest were
trees cast deep dark shadow too cold even for the most
hardened eskimo there you were left in that grove led by
dark powers empowering itself by robbing you, but in turn
robbing itself, and enlightening Us. For the sun crept
indellibly across the sky, but cloaked in their darkness
with downturned boles basking in their own shade, when the
sun came they vanished as if never exiusted. When you were
born from your mothers womb you passed from Heaven into
Heaven with flying colours, and your birth was the first
day of spring. and your death shall be your first day of
eternal summer, the sun shall be at noon, and no shadow
shall be cast. The deep blue from on high, royal and
rolling, waiting for the fish, to swim again."

-Limwell.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: Basilides]
    #5826974 - 07/06/06 09:03 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Faith (relevant definition)
Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.




One does not need to have "rigid faith" in sensory data, as it is usually backed up with material evidence and can be verified by others who sense the same material evidence.

By contrast, faith in the existence of God is non-logical (as opposed to illogical), and without material proof.  Rigid faith in God consists of insisting that HE exists, and that all others who dispute your subjective and unverifiable beliefs are doomed (or in denial, or afraid, or jealous of your mystical experiences).  :tongue:

I am not saying that all possible aspects of reality can be explored through logic and our basic senses, but it is a huge jump from saying "we don't know (and perhaps cannot know) the complex nature of reality" to saying "God exists, I know it, non-believers in God are doomed and in denial."


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: Veritas]
    #5827847 - 07/06/06 02:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

One does not need to have "rigid faith" in sensory data, as it is usually backed up with material evidence and can be verified by others who sense the same material evidence.




But isn't falling back on sensory data as a means to an end a tad rigid? As in having one's intuition entirely defined by sensory data. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying sensory data is bad. Physics are indeed a phenomena that should be investigated and understood. But it seems to me that to completely lock one's self through sensory tunnel vision, they are becoming just as inanimate as the supposed world they are trying to understand.

Quote:

By contrast, faith in the existence of God is non-logical (as opposed to illogical), and without material proof. Rigid faith in God consists of insisting that HE exists, and that all others who dispute your subjective and unverifiable beliefs are doomed (or in denial, or afraid, or jealous of your mystical experiences).

I am not saying that all possible aspects of reality can be explored through logic and our basic senses, but it is a huge jump from saying "we don't know (and perhaps cannot know) the complex nature of reality" to saying "God exists, I know it, non-believers in God are doomed and in denial."




Doomed? I have not once mentioned such things, whether "doom", "damnation" etc. These are exoteric references that I reject personally. I not claiming any kind of superiority over what you (subjectively) define as "non-believers" (what's a non-believer?). I am merely challenging a philosophical stance. :smirk:

Peace


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Fear of Death [Re: Basilides]
    #5828141 - 07/06/06 03:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

At one point I had briefly known several drug addicts whose habits were reinforced by various cognitive distortions, including the belief that since existence was meaningless, a gradual descent into psychological and physical degradation was viewed as perfectly acceptable.

Switching from a supernatural, religious, mystical, etc schema to a nihilistic one can be extremely stressful. Personally, during my transition I abused tranquilizers and various other depressants heavily. It seems to take some time for your values and emotions to adjust with this metaphysical flip. The otherworldly values and outlook inherent in religion and spirituality can be a terrible emotive disadvantage. During the transition, these values and maybe even the entire purpose for living, suddenly vanish and you're left struggling to replace/modify them. From the experiences others have shared on this forum and by my own personal experience, this uneducated plunge into nihilism seems awfully depressing.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: Basilides]
    #5828194 - 07/06/06 04:04 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Do you believe you have any attachments yourself?

I am firmly attached to myself.  :smile:

Can rigid faith in sensory data also be considered as such? Afterall, I don't see how it's any more or less an absolutism.

Rigid faith in sensory data probably won't give you the feeling of solidarity and importance racial, political, religious ideologies provide. It does not seem very conductive to mob mentality.

Also, while "I am experience reality through my senses" may be an unverifiable assumption, the converse of this is a dead-option, as it leads to Solipsism. After this assumption is made, you can travel across solid ground the rest of the way and since sensory data relies on induction rather than deduction, it only seems possible for the logically naive to have any absolute faith in it. (Induction is always a probability; never an absolute.)

I think science is best understood as a powerful tool for making predictions.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5828734 - 07/06/06 06:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rigid faith in sensory data probably won't give you the feeling of solidarity and importance racial, political, religious ideologies provide. It does not seem very conductive to mob mentality.




Ah, right, gestalt theory. Sensory data for unusual reasons also tends to conjugate gatherings and communities, especially with the advent of large sites like Infidels.org/The Secular Web. Lets not forget the masses of mindless adolescents who today persue the teachings of Nietzche like he was the second coming.

Quote:

Also, while "I am experience reality through my senses" may be an unverifiable assumption, the converse of this is a dead-option, as it leads to Solipsism. After this assumption is made, you can travel across solid ground the rest of the way and since sensory data relies on induction rather than deduction, it only seems possible for the logically naive to have any absolute faith in it. (Induction is always a probability; never an absolute.)

I think science is best understood as a powerful tool for making predictions.




A great example of unbarnacled sensory data is that of an infant, who through the sensation of pain realizes that he is not the environment he perceives. How and where so many later on dismiss meta-sensory underlayings of sensory phenomena (the so-called primacy of one's senses) is another mystery to me.

Excellent discussion btw, Mushman  :thumbup:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Posts: 4,587
Re: Fear of Death [Re: Basilides]
    #5829733 - 07/06/06 10:19 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hmm... I guess I didn't think that through completely... Atheism too can be an terribly dogmatic [anti-]religious ideology. I'm personally not aware of any atheist organizations or groups, but I think it is more than possible that individuals could find the same sense of belonging, importance, consent, etc in such a group.


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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5830255 - 07/07/06 12:55 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

This is the dream. This is the dream in which we have access to all dreams in which we have access to all.

It is not possible to refute this statement. The statement has no boundries and it works in realms of no possible proof.

You cannot know that you dream, if you dream that you don't know.

"Life is only a dream, there is no such thing as death and here's Tom with the weather."

And I'm going "hey, what about everyone else - are they dreaming too? Or am I dreaming them up? Am I alone?!"

And I'm answering myself "Everyone else is you. They are parts of the same dream as you are - they are you - but that doesn't make them fake. They are dreaming too - you aren't making them up - this is dreamscape.

You are dreaming them. You are them dreaming. You are always them, as you are always yourself - you have always seen the world through their eyes as you have seen it through your own. They are not a part of you, and certainly not apart from you. They are fragments, and so are you. We have individual lives, but we're the same living thing. The same life. The same consciousness.

Our minds are filters for the conscious being. Filtrated through 6 billion people and an almost eternally vast variety of animals and other animate objects of being - and thats just here on earth - God is still unable to flee himself.

I have always been me. This is all that ever was. I am the mighty rearranger and I try to rearrange it so that I don't realize who I am, but I always leave clues to myself so I can find my way. So I wont forget.

The trick is to be as far into a game as possible, as far as you can go without completely letting go - but far enough to forget for a while what and who and where you are.

When death arrives to a biocomputer, one filter will be gone. Many many many new will come, has come. The biocomputer has no self, there is no such thing as death to these dreamfilters (us).

The self is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

There is no self without the biocomputer, there is no biocomputer without the self.

The biocomputer does not exist. This is what you'll know.

If the biocomputer does not exist, does the self exist? Is the self anything?

The spirit is moving, and its moving fast. The nullification of the notion of death will make life eternal, and the idea of Jesus as saviour within reach.

I have never died, and I doubt I ever will. However, I keep waking up all the time.


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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OfflineShampioenier
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: slaphappy]
    #5860837 - 07/15/06 06:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Mindlords with their spirit slaves:"
They have seen the wings in your eyes, and because they
have not wings the mindlords enslave your spirit. But the
power of spirit is mightier than the power of the mind and
the mindlords are laid to waste as the spirit rears in
penultimate, predestined, presuppressed majesty. To see you
aglow in the snow, oh loving eskimo. Deep in a forest were
trees cast deep dark shadow too cold even for the most
hardened eskimo there you were left in that grove led by
dark powers empowering itself by robbing you, but in turn
robbing itself, and enlightening Us. For the sun crept
indellibly across the sky, but cloaked in their darkness
with downturned boles basking in their own shade, when the
sun came they vanished as if never exiusted. When you were
born from your mothers womb you passed from Heaven into
Heaven with flying colours, and your birth was the first
day of spring. and your death shall be your first day of
eternal summer, the sun shall be at noon, and no shadow
shall be cast. The deep blue from on high, royal and
rolling, waiting for the fish, to swim again."


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OfflineScarfmeister
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: Basilides]
    #5860891 - 07/15/06 06:48 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Rhetoric nonsense and speculation. Unmitigated light? Jesus.


--------------------
--------------------
We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: Basilides]
    #5861256 - 07/15/06 09:32 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Fear of death is the only rational fear...it is all other fears that are irrational. The only thing to fear is death. Any decision made out of fear that does not directly concern protecting ones life and limbs in a real way is a bad decision. If a grizzly bear chases after you, then run. You should feel fear. It is our biological imperative to stay alive. Any suggestion that fear of death is irrational is an expression of that fear through denial. Any sane human has a natural fear of death. This knowledge and fear of death is what keeps everything in perspective. Death is our constant companion and it will cut away all pettiness and irrational fear from our lives if we accept it as such. It is our only reliable constant and you should fear it. The knowledge that something will not cause your death should cut away all other fears, while the fear of death keeps us alive. So many people want to behave as though they are immortal, yet these immortals are scared of their own shadow. There is only ONE fear...and that is of death.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineShampioenier
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5872513 - 07/18/06 06:23 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

whaddya mean, noob? Tisnt speculation twas but a sensation as I felt. I cannot speculate on my feelings, I can only feel them. u know.


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OfflineShampioenier
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: Shampioenier]
    #5872516 - 07/18/06 06:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I DONT FEAR DEATH. I JUST DONT FUCKING LIKE IT.


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OfflineShampioenier
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: Shampioenier]
    #5872518 - 07/18/06 06:26 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

God is the Eternal Solstice. Eternal Almighty. Illimitible incomparable incurcumnavigable. If you circumnavigate it then u should know its not God. Blast low like grass from a landing UFO, bent in submission indeed, the mortals are. For God is very fucking powerful.


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OfflineShampioenier
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: Shampioenier]
    #5872519 - 07/18/06 06:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

skulls rolling in ignominy


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OfflineShampioenier
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: Shampioenier]
    #5872521 - 07/18/06 06:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

heads falling in mmm. self deluded misery. What happens happens. The idea really, is to ride the wave, larger than the sea. Ride the wave. Its not very easy. Surfers do not easy got the hang of the spiritual surfing... it indeed difficult without wrong tools.
So maybe they made this arc of the covenant thing. from tha holiest i n i.


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OfflineShampioenier
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: Shampioenier]
    #5872523 - 07/18/06 06:30 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

your bones shant leer my flesh from my bones, pink and flustered though I may be, but by GOD I WILL NEVER ACCEPT DEATH!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
Perhaps it is this lurid acceptance that kills.


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OfflineShampioenier
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: Shampioenier]
    #5872526 - 07/18/06 06:33 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

m In the dark, in the dark, in the dark, I am still there, in the dark, the little proteus swimming alone in his cave with his little feet, just a little proteus is all it takes. In the dark. So you know its dark and how is that then? Once there was light but now you know the darkness. But there must be light otherwise there would be no darkness.


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OfflineShampioenier
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Re: Fear of Death [Re: Shampioenier]
    #5872529 - 07/18/06 06:34 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

so in fact, if there isnt light, well then you wouldnt know when its dark would you, and then, it wouldnt be the darkness if there wasnt light. So either way, s jus.... mmmm


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