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Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
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xmush
Professor ofDoom


Registered: 10/22/05
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Re: Many Mushrooms from Today [Re: shroominDole]
#5820527 - 07/04/06 03:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Taste has been a deciding factor for many IDs I've made. And for some of the mushrooms that are really bitter or peppery, chewing the tiny piece really lets the flavor come out. Of course you spit it out, and only chew a tiny bit, but it is harmless. It's best if you know what amanitas look like at a glance and not chew those, but for the most part this is pretty safe. I don't know what you mean by a 'bite' shroomindole, but chewing a tiny piece of even a deadly amanita and spitting it out will not kill you. I don't own a field guide that doesn't recommend this technique.
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shroominDole
Stranger


Registered: 12/19/05
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Re: Many Mushrooms from Today [Re: xmush]
#5820567 - 07/04/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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a
-------------------- Worlds Largest 'Liberty Cap' (Cali Libs Confirmed !) ' Comments On Hallucinogenic Agarics And The Hallucinations Of Those Who Study Them ' Alexander H. Smith Mycologia vol.69 1977
Edited by shroominDole (07/04/06 04:15 PM)
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shroominDole
Stranger


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Re: Many Mushrooms from Today [Re: xmush]
#5820594 - 07/04/06 04:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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He is chewing unidentified mushrooms...
References for all these field guides and page for chewing unidentified musrooms such as Amanitas and Cortinarius, etc. ??????
Is that something you would recommend for a family member ????
I have never in my life had to chew on any mushroom to ID it which is why I go back to my original statement and anyone who has to chew on an Amanita to ID it doesnt know what one is...
-------------------- Worlds Largest 'Liberty Cap' (Cali Libs Confirmed !) ' Comments On Hallucinogenic Agarics And The Hallucinations Of Those Who Study Them ' Alexander H. Smith Mycologia vol.69 1977
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Anno
Experimenter



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Re: Many Mushrooms from Today [Re: shroominDole]
#5820842 - 07/04/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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>is that something you would recommend for a family member ????
Chewing on an unknown mushroom and spitting it out to help identifying it?
Hell, YES, I wholeheartedly recommend this to ALL my family members!
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xmush
Professor ofDoom


Registered: 10/22/05
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Re: Many Mushrooms from Today [Re: Anno]
#5820876 - 07/04/06 05:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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From Roger Phillips Mushrooms of North America: "To ascertain taste, nibble a little bit and break it up on the tip of your tongue without swallowing it, spit out the remains and completely clear your mouth; if done carefully, even the most poisonous species can be tasted in this way, though in practice you will soon learn to recognize and so avoid tasting the main poisonous genera." This is pretty much the same advice as I've seen in every guidebook I've ever looked at.
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YESSUP
In The Thick Of It


Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 2,774
Loc: SE Tex
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Re: Many Mushrooms from Today [Re: shroominDole]
#5820969 - 07/04/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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SHEEEEZ!
OK first off I'm sorry I even posted what I did.. I have seen this as an ID for Red Russula on a few sights and on a few on line books. I have used this as an ID for this mushroom. So with what I learned and with the information I retained I felt comfortable enough to say what I said..
Do I need to go dig up the sight? Look in here it says TASTE! NO one stated that anyone should taste an Amanita. The ID was for the Red Russula posted on the 1st page. This was the intention of my reply.
I will not sit and argue with you as it seems that you have quite the knack for that.
I'm in no way flaming you and I feel you are a large part of the incredible information on this sight.
But this thread has gon a stray!
-------------------- Gut Feeling leads to anxiety, Anxiety leads to fear, Fear leads to anger,And anger leads to regret.
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netherstrain
Druidik Scholar

Registered: 03/13/06
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Re: Many Mushrooms from Today [Re: YESSUP]
#5821139 - 07/04/06 07:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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yeah, the first is a red russula almost sure, i find them very often in pastures and pasture woodlines..
-------------------- All statements i make is purely bullshit.
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shroominDole
Stranger


Registered: 12/19/05
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Re: Many Mushrooms from Today [Re: netherstrain]
#5842508 - 07/10/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why would you consider it was my intent for telling someone it is probably not neccessary to CHEW on a poisonous mushroom to assertain identification......especially Russula and to offer an alternative which doesnt include putting any part of a poisonous mushroom in your mouth and chewing it up especially on a mushroom identification DISCUSSION board..........is to argue with YOU personally......your placing alot of implied intent into my reply which was never implied or stated by anyone but you and your personal comment...
" I will not sit and argue with you as it seems that you have quite the knack for that. I'm in no way flaming you and I "
How did this become a personal discussion between you and I ?.......there are potentially 100s of people that will read this information not just you.....possibly some that may have misidentified their DEADLY Amanita as a Russula......did you know that Russulas can have the same general shape, exact same cap colors, have gills that are white, whith free gill attatchment, also have the exact same color spore print, and many Amanitas which have stems that crumble quite easily with which might not posess any volva or veil remnants for a whole myriad of reasons and as well can occur touching an Amanita growing right along side of it....and as I have seen over the years so many times (and I could probably find an example or two right here on this board) of people having as many as 4 or more species thinking they were all the same species of mushrooms.....let alone Amanita or Russulas.....and if its read.....the context in which I used Amanita was to demonstrate that mushrooms are one of the most potent natural toxins known to man .......by stating the FACT that ONE bite can kill you almost immediately (relatively) let alone any varying lesser compromises over a period from smaller exposures....single small exposures of mercury or lead might not kill one or someones family members either....that day.....the idea is to lessen compromising the liver and other organs or at least not other peoples. But also this is directed toward the act of people putting a peice of mushroom (which they were already informed might be poisonous) in their mouth and chew on it just because someone on an internet site told them it was OK ..... not to mention which for all they know may have been IDd incorrectly to begin with and by their question asking if it was dangerous to chew on it AFTER THEY ALREADY DID IT.....and this nothing toward you Pauvro personally but to help you and others reading this to never put ANY part of a poisonous mushroom in your mouth and on chew it just because someone told you it was OK....you MUST know for yourself first ! By the way one of the nicknames of the Russula being referred to here is " The Sickner "
Quote:
"......the Vomiting Mushroom ...Take a tid bit the size of a Tic Tac and chew on it ..." "......Oh ya spit the tad out! "
" Do I need to go dig up the sight? Look in here it says TASTE! NO one stated that anyone should taste an Amanita. The ID was for the Red Russula posted on the 1st page. This was the intention of my reply. "
A Tic-Tac is probably 10 times bigger than what is needed to taste a poisonous mushroom !
This is what the link you provided for your basis of telling them to chew on a poisonous mushroom actually said... " Diagnosis Taste acrid, peppery, hot "
That clearly says TASTE NOT CHEW......Not to mention that wasnt even the correct link for the correct page....hmmmmm ??? .....the word Taste (and not chew) was actually another link to the correct information they provide which says... " taste Terms discussed: acrid, bitter, latent
acrid :
Peppery, hot. This is not really a taste per se, but a burning sensation that fills your mouth (and sometimes your throat!) when you put a bit of the mushroom in your mouth "
Once again that was TASTE NOT CHEW.
Since the webpage you misquoted actually agrees with my suggestions maybe your arguement would be better placed with either yourself or the website ?
Here is the correct link... http://www.ilmyco.gen.chicago.il.us/Terms/taste462.html
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Quote:
Pauvro said: Uhh I don't have to worry about this little bite I took, do I? I chewed it, then spit it all back out?
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shroominDole said : There is no need to chew on a mushroom to identify it......one bite of deadly Amanita can kill you......with Russulas just put your tongue on the gills for a few seconds or so....
Once again that is TASTE NOT CHEW
***************************** Although I dont know why someone needs a website to tell them this....this is what the website that was recommended above by Xmush for reference Mushroomexpert says on there website: http://www.mushroomexpert.com/taste.html
Determining Taste by Michael Kuo
"......since there are some deadly poisonous mushrooms out there, one should be careful. One swallowed bite of an Amanita verna or Galerina autumnalis could contain enough poison to kill you! To be honest, it is doubtful that swallowing your spit after you have tasted and spit out a piece of deadly mushroom is likely to cause you any harm (sorry to be graphic, but I want to be as clear as possible). Still, it is better to be conservative in matters like this; "
" To determine taste, tear off a very small piece of the mushroom's cap (including flesh as well as gills or pores). Put it on the tip of your tongue, and hold it in your mouth for a few seconds (perhaps a little longer in the case of Lactarius mushrooms, since some of their tastes develop slowly). DO NOT SWALLOW. Spit the mushroom out, and rinse your mouth out thoroughly with water, being careful not to swallow. "
{ EDIT : Once again thats TASTE NOT CHEW. }
Study the Amanitas , especially the deadly ones. Memorize their details--from button stage to maturity--and never taste any mushroom that could remotely be similar. "
" DO NOT TASTE mushrooms with rust colored or rusty-brown spores. "
DO NOT TASTE any mushroom unless you are reasonably sure you have approximated its identity. For example, you know you are holding a bolete, and you wonder whether it might be a Tylopilus. Never pull one of these: " WHATS THIS ? I HAVE NO IDEA. I HAVE NO IDEA I THINK I'LL TASTE IT. "
DO NOT TASTE mushrooms "in the field"; wait until you are home.
" DO NOT TASTE any gilled mushroom with a ring or a ring zone on its stem. "
" DO NOT TASTE any mushroom with a cortina (a cotton-candy-like covering of fibers protecting the young gills). "
" DO NOT TASTE any bolete with a red pore surface. "
" DO NOT TASTE Morels or False Morels. "
Quote:
Xmush said : chewing a tiny piece of even a deadly amanita and spitting it out will not kill you. " I don't own a field guide that doesn't recommend this technique. "
Quote:
shroominDole said : References for all these field guides and page for chewing unidentified musrooms such as Amanitas and Cortinarius, etc. ?????? Is that something you would recommend for a family member ????
Quote:
Xmush said : From Roger Phillips Mushrooms of North America: "To ascertain taste, nibble a little bit and break it up on the tip of your tongue without swallowing it, spit out the remains and completely clear your mouth; if done carefully, even the most poisonous species can be tasted in this way, though in practice you will soon learn to recognize and so avoid tasting the main poisonous genera." " This is pretty much the same advice as I've seen in every guidebook I've ever looked at. "
You stated twice that you dont own a field guide that doesn't recommend chewing poisonous mushrooms or ever seen one and alls I needed was just at least titles for reference.....should it be assumed that you were either widely overstating or own just one field guide ? Well I'll just use then the references you provided above as suggested resource materials other than the Rogers which I have always strongly disagreed with the way it was worded.....especially with the picture of his daughter next to the advice.....I wonder if he has taught or would allow and stand by and watch while his daughter chews on a piece of " even the most poisonous species " (EXTREMELY FATAL) at least in front of witnesses......I know I would say something to him if present...
Quote:
Xmush said : Books - David Aurora Mushrooms Demystified; Roger's Mushrooms of North America; Audubon Society Field Guide; www.mushroomexpert.com.
Mushrooms Demystified states :
"........ almost any mushroom can be safely tested by chewing on a small piece of the cap and then spitting it out. " However it is NOT a good policy to sample unknown mushrooms, particularly AMANITAS ......."
Why does someone need to be told this by a book it is not a good idea to " sample unknown " or poisonous ( deadly ) mushrooms ???
Your next one... Audobon Society Feild Guide says :
NOTHING about putting POISONOUS mushroom in your mouth and then CHEWING as far as I know.......if you have a page number please but I dont believe I've ever seen that type of suggestion in there....
************************************* So far thats 1 for 4 from what I've seen not counting Yessup ( 1 for 5 )
And didnt you state a few weeks back that you had just purchased the NEW field guide ' North American Mushrooms A Field Guide To Edible And Inedible Fungi ' by Dr. Orson K. Miller jr. ??? It says :
NOTHING about putting ANY mushroom let alone poisonous in your mouth and then CHEWING as far as I know.......if you have a page number please but I dont believe I've ever seen that type of suggestion in there....
That's 1 for 6 ..........???
Regaurdless of all that I hope it might be understood at least a little my resevations about telling people to put unknown and / or poisonous mushrooms in ones mouth and chew on it....especially with Russula to taste it as stated and Amatoxins being one of the most dangerous naturally occuring toxins known to man ....one bite can KILL YOU......just common sense I feel......and this mind set of that just because the toxins you expose your liver (and other things by the way) to.......might not drop you in your shoes today means that it is OK.....is immediate death the way in which to measure toxicity or danger over a period........kind of the same mind set of people with blown out livers that continue to blast themselves for years with alcohol (and others) just cause they think they arent going to drop tommorrow but sometimes the toxic exposures and their effects we submit ourselves to can only be measured and realized during ' The End Game ' and literally translated into days, weeks or years and the quality of.
Quote:
" But this thread has gon a stray! "
If it is going to be suggested to chew on poisonous mushrooms especially the size of a Tic-Tac it is IMPOSSIBLE to get every small piece out effectively by spitting.....you MUST do repeated rinses with water / spit.
Quote:
>is that something you would recommend for a family member ????
Chewing on an unknown mushroom and spitting it out to help identifying it?
Hell, YES, I wholeheartedly recommend this to ALL my family members!
-------------------- Worlds Largest 'Liberty Cap' (Cali Libs Confirmed !) ' Comments On Hallucinogenic Agarics And The Hallucinations Of Those Who Study Them ' Alexander H. Smith Mycologia vol.69 1977
Edited by shroominDole (07/10/06 02:13 PM)
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Pauvro
Oracle of Gaia


Registered: 06/28/06
Posts: 132
Loc: Maryland, USA
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: Many Mushrooms from Today [Re: shroominDole]
#5842839 - 07/10/06 03:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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If anyone was wondering, I'm fine :-).
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shroomydan
exshroomerite


Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
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Re: Many Mushrooms from Today [Re: Pauvro]
#5842906 - 07/10/06 03:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm glad you are fine Pauvro. As long as you spit out the piece of mushroom you sample, it doesn't matter if you chew it or not. The poison doesn't enter the body through your teeth. 
I once chewed up a small piece of Galerina autumnalis and spit it out hoping it was a "very bitter" Gymnopilus spectabilis. That was about five years ago and my liver is still with me.
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Pauvro
Oracle of Gaia


Registered: 06/28/06
Posts: 132
Loc: Maryland, USA
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: Many Mushrooms from Today [Re: shroomydan]
#5842930 - 07/10/06 03:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, I was pretty sure chewing a tiny peice and spitting out is totally fine.
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xmush
Professor ofDoom


Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 2,421
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Re: Many Mushrooms from Today [Re: shroominDole]
#5842937 - 07/10/06 03:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hmm, well sorry I overstated the whole field guide taste recommendation. But besides Rogers, the new Miller and Miller book describes the taste of almost every single mushroom in the book, including poisonous ones. For a page reference, how about any page that has a description? Of course it says do not taste amanitas or known deadly mushrooms. But this is likely more out of a fear of liability than because you're going to die from a small taste that you don't swallow. In Simon and Schusters guide, under how to identify a mushroom (page 41), it says that smell, TASTE, and habitat form the second level of obeservation. And again, most descriptions include taste, even for inedible and poisonous species. My Smithsonian guide to Mushrooms by Lincoff also describes the taste for many of the species, including the poisonous ones. I can't find my Audubon guide to confirm whether it says anything about taste, but that is 4 out of my 5 guides that definitely rely on taste as a key to identification. Not 1 out of 5 as you state. And again, Rogers says "EVEN THE MOST POISONOUS MUSHROOMS" can be tasted in this way. Now if you want to argue about the semantics of biting vs. nibbling vs. chewing, feel free. But I don't think that anyone who read this post (from what, a month ago?) thought that anyone was suggesting taking a huge bite and swallowing it.
Also, you continuously state that it is a FACT that a single bite of a poisonous mushroom can kill, yet I have trouble finding evidence of that being common in the medical literature. I suppose it is possible for someone to die from a single bite of an amanita, but I imagine that is a pretty big bite (i.e. an entire deathcap). For the majority of people, a single bite of a random mushroom will not kill them. A single bite of a known poisonous Russula will also not kill the vast majority of people. A single bite (again, a big bite with swallowing) of an amanita would kill some people - but no one is recommending a big bite! And it is an absurd argument to ask whether someone would let their child taste a small piece of a mushroom. No one was saying that until you brought it up to prove a point. And in many of your posts that I remember, you seem to enjoy making points based on the most extreme and unlikely scenarios. Just because something CAN happen doesn't mean that it is likely enough to be a problem.
Most of your arguments apply to low probability events - for instance the possibility that someone has an attached gilled amanita that is crumbly and looks like a russula, and that they take a big bite, and that they swallow it... This has nothing to do with the harm expected by an average healthy young adult nibbling a tiny piece of some random mushroom and then thoroughly spitting it out. And I would love to see what evidence you have about the long-term harm of occasional minute doses of mycotoxins. Chronic continued exposure is more biologically plausible, but someone out in the woods tasting the occasional tiny piece of a mushroom for identification purposes? I think I would believe that homeopathy is a legitimate medical practice before I would believe that this is so harmful.
So, as to modify what I stated earlier, the majority of field guides that I have read recommend tasting a bit of the mushroom and spitting it out. Perhaps you should read your own guides a bit more carefully.
Edit: found my audubon guide. Several of the descriptions describe the taste of the mushroom, but not as many as the other guides.
Edited by xmush (07/10/06 03:58 PM)
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CureCat
Strangest


Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
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Re: Many Mushrooms from Today [Re: shroomydan]
#5843708 - 07/10/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroomydan said: I once chewed up a small piece of Galerina autumnalis and spit it out hoping it was a "very bitter" Gymnopilus spectabilis.
Did this occurr at the beginning of your mushroom hobby? I ask because I can't imagine you mistaking Galerina autumnalis for a species of Gymnopilus... I mean, G. autumnalis has a viscid cap, quite distinct from the cap of a gym.
On a somewhat related note... I have read that the new widely accepted name for Gymnopilus spectabilis is now Gymnopilus junonius. Yet, even Mushroom Johns site lists "Gymnopilus spectabilis". Is there some controversy regarding the species taxonomy??
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shroomydan
exshroomerite


Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
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Re: Many Mushrooms from Today [Re: CureCat]
#5844686 - 07/10/06 10:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, it was at the beginning of my mushroom hunting career. I had yet to find the Shroomery, and I was just going from pictures in the National Audubon Guide to North American Mushrooms.
 [Gymnopilus spectabilis]
 [Galerina autumnalis]
The two species can resemble one another to the untrained eye, and like many new hunters, I was viewing the world through the lense of wishful thinking. I didn't even know about Galerinas before I tasted one, and I had yet to find my first Gymnopilus. However, when the mushroom in my mouth was not bitter, I knew it was not Big Laughing Gym. I sat down on a log and for the first time took a good hard look through my field guide. Deadly Galerina was the closest match and that scared me. I was one swallow away from death and didn't even know it. Thank God Galerinas are not bitter, otherwise I might not be here today.
As far as the name goes, G. spectabilis vs. G. junonius, I don't know really. Both names refer to Big laughing Gyms. Mushroom taxonomy is fubared at the moment. You will see different Latin names for many mushrooms depending upon which field guide you are looking at. I like spectabilis, it just sounds more spectacular to me, a fitting name for my favorite mushroom. Though bitter and weak by comparison, I find the psychedelic effects of Gymnopilus spectabilis superior to those induced by Psilocybes. This fragrant bitter mushroom is nothing short of spectabilis.
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CureCat
Strangest


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Posts: 14,058
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Re: Many Mushrooms from Today [Re: shroomydan]
#5844920 - 07/10/06 10:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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That is a good picture comparison.
And while looking through Galerina pics I did see- from the underside- how it could be mistook for a Gym. It's the cap that is the biggest indicator, so I assumed you must have been new to the field since I can't imagine you making that mistake now-a-days. 
Thats actually a good first learning experience... What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger?? Or smarter perhaps.
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