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OfflineSource
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Took A Spiritual Break For A While...
    #5811210 - 07/01/06 11:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

...and I'm none the better for it.

Hello all.  It's been a while since I've posted here.  I felt I needed to break away from conceptualizing truth and move into practice.  Instead, I stopped conceptualizing truth and stopped practicing.

The result hasn't been that good.

So, can one move spiritually backward?  And if so, how does one regain the spirit?  Does one?  Is it possible?

Is it not the spirit that chooses us?  Isn't this what Jesus refered to when he said (paraphrased),'the wind moves where it will.  And the sprit moves where it will'?

I know that my first awakening (about 8 or 9 years ago) deffinitely seemed to be orchestrated by something beyond myself.  Do I need to wait for such orchestration again?  Or can I make it happen myself?

I guess it comes down to the old free will vs. determinism thing again, doesn't it?

Oh well.  Just venting some spiritual frustration.

Thanks all for listening  :heart:


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What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibleSoY
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Source]
    #5811274 - 07/02/06 12:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You've missed some good threads recently.....


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"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


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OfflineSource
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Source]
    #5811302 - 07/02/06 12:17 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Damn.


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What you're searching for is what's searching.


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Source]
    #5811682 - 07/02/06 04:20 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hey, nice to see you're still alive and well! You know, you're sig has been sticking with me ever since i first read it!

What went wrong for you to say that the result hasn't been good?
What were you waiting for that didn't happen?

IMO, truth/love isn't something you practice, its not something that needs any particular effort, its not something you can strive for (that would contradict you're sig, you can't strive for what's striving!), basically its not an end in itself.

Maybe all you need is a little reminder! :heart:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Source]
    #5811810 - 07/02/06 07:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"Though He saith, "it bloweth where it listeth," He saith it not as if the wind had any power of choice, but declaring that its natural motion cannot be hindered, and is with power. For Scripture knoweth how to speak thus of things without life, as when it saith, "The creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly." (Rom. viii. 20.) The expression therefore, "bloweth where it listeth," is that of one who would show that it cannot be restrained, that it is spread abroad everywhere, and that none can hinder its passing hither and thither, but that it goes abroad with great might, and none is able to turn aside its violence.

2. "And thou hearest its voice," (that is, its rustle, its noise,)

"but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth; so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

Here is the conclusion of the whole matter. "If," saith He, "thou knowest not how to explain the motion nor the path of this wind which thou perceivest by hearing and touch, why art thou over-anxious about the working of the Divine Spirit, when thou understandest not that of the wind, though thou hearest its voice?" The expression, "bloweth where it listeth," is. also used to establish the power of the Comforter; for if none can hold the wind, but it moveth where it listeth, much less will the laws of nature, or limits of bodily generation, or anything of the like kind, be able to restrain the operations of the Spirit." http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/240126.htm

Religious metaphor. The Spirit of God is God, which is omnipresent. Never for an instant is there a lack of interface between God and existence - our individual existence included in this set. God 'beats the drum of our heart,' so-to-speak, a tangible manifestation of being enlivened by Spirit. I'm obviously not talking about sino-atrial enervation and descriptions of the physical 'how' of biomechanics, I'm speaking metaphorically. Metaphor can elicit metaphysical understanding perhaps better than any other linguistic means.

As long as you think in images and notions of form, misunderstanding will abound. God will seem to be the capricious Jehova who acts like an Oriental tyrant, giving and taking life for His own pleasure. It has taken me decades to realize that 'being in the Spirit' is 1) not necessarily being in a non-ordinary state of mind and 2) unavoidable, inasmuch as being in the Spirit is like a wave being in the ocean. One can no more be removed from God than a wave can exist outside of the ocean. Our very existence and essence ultimately derive from God. Try using the word 'Consciousness' instead of spirit/spiritus/pneuma/prana/ruach [English, Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, Hebrew respectively].


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5811834 - 07/02/06 07:50 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yo,
Dignity!
nice....


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5812089 - 07/02/06 10:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I would recommend daily meditation, simply. It is like writing. You won't always be inspired to write. Sometimes you just have to sit down and write every day. Sit down and meditate every day. Inspiration will come.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Source]
    #5812103 - 07/02/06 10:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"When man starts to learn, he is never clear about his objectives. His purpose is faulty; his intent is vague. He hopes for rewards that will never materialize, for he knows nothing of the hardships of learning.

He slowly begins to learn — bit by bit at first, then in big chunks… What he learns is never what he pictured, or imagined, and so he begins to be afraid. Learning is never what one expects… His purpose becomes a battlefield. And thus he has tumbled upon the first of his natural enemies: fear… And if the man, terrified in its presence, runs away, his enemy will have put an end to his quest…

He must be fully afraid, and yet he must not stop. And a moment will come when his first enemy retreats. The man begins to feel sure of himself… Once the man has vanquished fear, he is free from it for the rest of his life, because, instead of fear, he has acquired clarity — a clarity of mind which erases fear.

By then the man knows his desires; he knows how to satisfy those desires. He can anticipate the new steps of learning, and a sharp clarity surrounds everything. The man feels that nothing is concealed. And thus he has encountered his second enemy.

That clarity of mind, which is so hard to obtain, dispels fear, but also blinds. It forces the man never to doubt himself… If the man yields to this make-believe power, he has succumbed to his second enemy and will fumble with learning… The man may turn into a buoyant warrior, or a clown…, but he will no longer learn, or yearn for, anything.

(If he defeats this enemy,) he will know at this point that the power he has been pursuing for so long is finally his. His wish is the rule. He sees all that is around him. But he has also come across his third enemy — power. The man at this stage hardly notices his third enemy closing in on him. And suddenly, without knowing, he will certainly have lost the battle. His enemy will have turned him into a cruel, capricious man.

The man who is defeated by power dies without really knowing how to handle it. Power is only a burden upon his fate.

He has to defy it, deliberately. He has to come to realize the power he has seemingly conquered is in reality never his. If he can see that clarity and power, without his control over himself, are worse than mistakes, he will know then when and how to use his power. And thus he will have defeated his third enemy.

(The fourth enemy is) — old age! It attacks almost without warning. This enemy is the cruelest of all. The one he won’t be able to defeat completely, but only fight away. This is the time when he has an unyielding desire to rest. If he gives in totally to his desire to lie down and forget, if he soothes himself in tiredness, he will have lost his last round, and his enemy will cut him down into a feeble old creature. His desire to retreat will overrule all his clarity, his power, and his knowledge. But if the man sloughs off his tiredness, and lives his fate through, he can then be called a man of knowledge, if only for the brief moment when he succeeds in fighting off his last, invincible enemy. That moment of clarity, power, and knowledge is enough."


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineSource
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: exclusive58]
    #5812214 - 07/02/06 11:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hi exclusive,

I was glad to see you are still here! And of course, it feels good to be remembered. Thanks.

Well, in a nutshell I feel 'less aware'. There was a time beginning about 7 years ago, after the death of my twin sons at birth, when I went through a kind of spiritual transformation. I didn’t consciously CHOOSE to become more aware...it just happened.

One event that spurred my awakening occurred when I was sitting in our car talking to my wife about the twin boys we had lost at their birth. As she was speaking it was as if ‘something’ reached down and lifted me up outside my limited perspective...as if I had lived my entire life encircled by a curtain and was for the first time able to peer over the top at the scene behind the show. (Totally sober by the way)

What I saw was a perfect universe. Its perfection was exemplified in its continual culmination toward perfection. In other words, what made it perfect was that it eternally moved toward perfection. Every event being orchestrated with countless other events to bring about the 'completion' of this perfection in the present moment. Even the most painful experiences work 'toward' this perfection. (sorry to use ‘perfection’ so much).

In even more simple words…I saw the universe and ‘it was good’.

Not long after this experience I had a dream in which I actually awakened into a life that makes this life the dream. I awoke to my astral life (if we want to label it) and with this awakening remembered that I was a student of the universe and this dream life on earth is a kind of learning experience. I was surrounded by friends whom I had known for ever and who had helped me to become aware of this higher life.

Following these events I rode a wave of awareness for several years that opened my heart and allowed me the possibility of changing my outlook on life.

Now I feel as if the wave has crested, broke and is rolling back. At the time I left the Shroomery I felt I needed to practice more and think less. I was already beginning to suspect that I was slipping back into sleep and didn’t want to waste time with theory. I soon found that I had no motivation to practice. I stopped meditating and stopped reading and began falling into my old habits again.

Now I feel nearly asleep again. I still have all this intellectual knowledge but somehow it doesn’t interest me as much. I can still BE the witness and disidentify with my body/mind, but the anxiety of life has me bound pretty tight and this BEINGness is more and more tainted by my worries. The glass isn’t as clear anymore.

To compound the difficulty, I am ashamed to admit that the state of the world has me troubled. War, plagues, disaster…I worry about my kid’s future.

Intellectually I know there is no way for me to exist outside of this BEINGness (or love), but in experience I feel less aware of it.

That’s the kicker…how does one become more aware of awareness? Practice? Grace? Both? I guess THIS one boils down to the old ‘works or grace’ argument.

Anyway, I could babble on and on…mainly because I am confused. But I hope this answers some of your questions.

Thanks for the reply exclusive!


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineSource
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5812274 - 07/02/06 12:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hi Markos,

Glad to see you're still around too!

Thanks for the information and the link. I'm going to have to process it some more before I can truly say I understand it all.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
As long as you think in images and notions of form, misunderstanding will abound. God will seem to be the capricious Jehova who acts like an Oriental tyrant, giving and taking life for His own pleasure. It has taken me decades to realize that 'being in the Spirit' is 1) not necessarily being in a non-ordinary state of mind and 2) unavoidable, inasmuch as being in the Spirit is like a wave being in the ocean. One can no more be removed from God than a wave can exist outside of the ocean. Our very existence and essence ultimately derive from God. Try using the word 'Consciousness' instead of spirit/spiritus/pneuma/prana/ruach [English, Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, Hebrew respectively].




As I mentioned in my response to exclusive I intellectually understand that I can never be seperate from consciousness, but in experience I feel I am less conscious of consciousness. The veil is more dense.

It is impossible to speak of such things without contradicting oneself!

I also understand that 'being in the spirit' is not a non-ordinary state. It is in fact our natural state. And yet there seems to be a gradation of awareness of this fact. Why?

Thank you Markos!


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What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineSource
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5812294 - 07/02/06 12:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hi Hue!

If what you posted is indeed a roadmap, I have a long, long way to go. I am still plagued by fear.


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What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Source]
    #5812303 - 07/02/06 12:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Me too...with a little clarity..


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineSource
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: thatiAM]
    #5812306 - 07/02/06 12:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hi thatIAm,

I know you are right. Damn, I'm just so bound by inertia right now!


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineSource
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5812321 - 07/02/06 12:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the honesty Hue!


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Source]
    #5812784 - 07/02/06 03:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It may feel like that Source but you have much more power to do stuff than you may be giving yourself credit for.  It is very easy to do, just start today and get in the habit of it.  Work your time up.  If you don't begin your meditating today when will you?  Ever?  :smile:

Peace


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: thatiAM]
    #5812863 - 07/02/06 04:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Meditation is a good exercise, but it is not required for spiritual growth.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Source]
    #5812935 - 07/02/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

What a coincidence! I was reading a book by Krishnamurti today in which he was discussing exactly that which you are having a problem with.

Basically, what you're having a problem with is that you once experienced this state of enlightenment, kind of, or this state of integration or mental equilibrium or however you want to call it...you experienced that state, and now you feel it has disappeared, that it has eclipsed itself away from your life, and you remember it, and you want it to continue, you want it to be part of your existence, you want to live with it.

The thing to understand now, is that when you experienced this moment, the "I", the ego (your personality, your problems, your pleasures, your ambitions etc...) was temporarily absent. Therefore, it seems that by asking "how do I become more aware? how do I go back to that state of mind?", that you are asking the wrong question. What you should be asking is "what are the obstacles that are keeping me away from that state?". Get it? You kinda need to flip the question inside-out.

Krishnamurti illustrated this idea with a nice example:
You're going down an alley with an abundance of trees. In the face of so much beauty, you exclaim to yourself "Wow! How beautiful! This is amazing!". In this moment, the "I", with all its problems, ceases to exist. The second after, the "I" comes back. You then say to yourself "Well, here I am; my God, I wish I could find that state again!" without realizing that this demand is precisely that which, not only serves as an obstacle to that state, but it even reinforces the ego.

Tell me if you understand so far. What do you think reinforces your ego? I can go on some more later if you like.

Quote:

Source said:
To compound the difficulty, I am ashamed to admit that the state of the world has me troubled.  War, plagues, disaster…I worry about my kid’s future.





That's where I've been for some time now. Especially ever since I became 99% certain that US govt. was involved in 9/11. Nothing to be ashamed of though. What I do when I realize that I'm being negatively affected by wordly absurdities is that I just connect to the now moment, because what's happening right HERE and right NOW is so beautiful and its all that matters, and it puts a smile on my face  :smile:


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Source]
    #5812952 - 07/02/06 04:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Oh I forgot to ask you, just out of curiosity, do you think you can remember what exactly triggered that state you were in, what "lifted you up" outside of your limited perspective? Did it have anything to do with the conversation you were having with your wife? With the environment you were in? With the thoughts you were having?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: exclusive58]
    #5813029 - 07/02/06 05:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Why, if it isn't Source. :grin: :stoned:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5813207 - 07/02/06 06:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Meditation is a good exercise, but it is not required for spiritual growth.




I guess it is just what's easiest for me. What do you do to grow (or suggest)? I recommend it because even if it's not required for spiritual growth, it will undoubtedly foster spiritual growth.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: thatiAM]
    #5813223 - 07/02/06 06:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Transcending the self is my suggestion, though meditation is good...it is merely a tool.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: thatiAM]
    #5813239 - 07/02/06 06:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

thatiAM said:
Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Meditation is a good exercise, but it is not required for spiritual growth.




I guess it is just what's easiest for me. What do you do to grow (or suggest)? I recommend it because even if it's not required for spiritual growth, it will undoubtedly foster spiritual growth.




it says more about huehuecoyotl than about the human condition in general. i.e. he would prefer to grow without meditation.
of course I am paraphrasing (boldly).


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5813289 - 07/02/06 07:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think that meditation is required for spiritual growth either. It is one tool among many, and can be misused as an excuse to avoid the active work of self-confrontation and action.

I've met several long-time meditation practitioners who put forth an appearance of calm, but would become fidgety and impatient if they had to wait more than a few minutes on line at the grocery store.

This is not to say that meditation cannot be used effectively, but I believe that we need other tools, as well as frequent "lab" work in our everyday lives, in order to grow spiritually.


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5813312 - 07/02/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Fair enough :smile:  It's just (un?)fortunate there isn't a big red 'transcend self' button on everyone's chest.  I guess figuring out that you never would have to push it in the first place is the point, because it's already been pushed for everyone.  Waking up to your own already-awakeness is all that matters, and the only thing that prepares you for it is itself.


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: thatiAM]
    #5813340 - 07/02/06 07:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Veritas- Come to think of it, I'm the only daily meditator I've ever met!  Maybe you all are right.  I guess for me personally it is useful, a time to give to the divine daily (not that waking life isn't a gift to the divine).  Also it just plain feels good.  I shower daily, eat daily, sleep daily...Why not meditate daily?

But everyone should find whatever path works best for them, so I'm glad you all are thinking about what works best for you personally :smile:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: thatiAM]
    #5813360 - 07/02/06 07:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Don't forget "brush and floss your teeth daily." :grin:

Spiritual growth is wonderful, but dental problems are hellish, and we can't count on wishful thinking to regenerate them after they are gone.  :wink:

Yes, I think that meditation can be helpful, just not when it is used as a "rubber stamp" on one's spirituality.  (i.e. I meditated today, therefore I am a spiritual person, and will not need to stretch myself in any other ways.)


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OfflineSource
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: exclusive58]
    #5813375 - 07/02/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
The thing to understand now, is that when you experienced this moment, the "I", the ego (your personality, your problems, your pleasures, your ambitions etc...) was temporarily absent. Therefore, it seems that by asking "how do I become more aware? how do I go back to that state of mind?", that you are asking the wrong question. What you should be asking is "what are the obstacles that are keeping me away from that state?". Get it? You kinda need to flip the question inside-out.




Yup, I get it (I think).  It's such an absurd paradox.  'I want to experience peace', and yet it is precisely the 'I' that prevents the experience of peace!  In a way, even believing that there are obstacles keeping me away from that state is tricky since there is really no 'me' and no way to be outside of 'IT'.

IT is here and now...reality.  'I' have fallen into the habit of mentally playing out future and past scenarios moving my awareness of the reality here and now to abstract thoughts about a non-existant past and future.

It's a difficult habit to break!

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
Krishnamurti illustrated this idea with a nice example:
You're going down an alley with an abundance of trees. In the face of so much beauty, you exclaim to yourself "Wow! How beautiful! This is amazing!". In this moment, the "I", with all its problems, ceases to exist. The second after, the "I" comes back. You then say to yourself "Well, here I am; my God, I wish I could find that state again!" without realizing that this demand is precisely that which, not only serves as an obstacle to that state, but it even reinforces the ego.




Dig Krishnamurti!  Wasn't he once heralded as Lord Maitreya by Theosophist's?  He said, "I do not want followers.  My only concern is to set man absolutely, unconditionally free".  As I said, dig Krisnamurti.

Anyway, yes, I see.  Once again the 'I' is the problem.

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
That's where I've been for some time now. Especially ever since I became 99% certain that US govt. was involved in 9/11. Nothing to be ashamed of though. What I do when I realize that I'm being negatively affected by wordly absurdities is that I just connect to the now moment, because what's happening right HERE and right NOW is so beautiful and its all that matters, and it puts a smile on my face  :smile:




Same boat here and I wholeheartedly agree about finding the present again (and about 9/11 for that matter).  I go through phases where I decide to just focus my attention on my real life...the life within the horizon of my awareness.  What I can see and experience.  My family, the room I am in, the sound of the fan...

But then I worry.  'What's going on in the world?  Will my kids end up in a draft?  How's the economy?  What's the deal with Israel?  Iraq? Iran? Bush? Global warming? Bird flu?

Then I remember to just chill out and the cycle starts again.  I'm addicted to DOOOOOM!


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OfflineSource
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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: exclusive58]
    #5813487 - 07/02/06 08:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
Oh I forgot to ask you, just out of curiosity, do you think you can remember what exactly triggered that state you were in, what "lifted you up" outside of your limited perspective? Did it have anything to do with the conversation you were having with your wife? With the environment you were in? With the thoughts you were having?




I'll try to paraphrase as it's a long story.

Looking back at my life I can kind of map out my spiritual growth from magical to mythical to rational to spritual/causal (to loosely use Ken Wilber's roadmap). 

I had given up on 'Christianity' or what passes for it these days and had spent a good eight years in my rational phase looking for objective truth as revealed by science.

Toward the end of this phase my wife and I were not very close and I didn't expect our marriage to last much longer.  On top of that we were expecting twins in addition to the two boys we already had. 

We learned that there was a complication with the pregnancy and had to decide if we wanted to do nothing and let them die or employ the limited amount of medical help available at the time...creating the risk (50%) that they could be born with cerebral palsy.  Difficult decision to say the least.

Regardless of what we chose to do, in the end they both died.

One night after things settled down, I found myself wondering whether or not science could ever find the objective truth about our origins.  I went to bed with the same thought repeating over and over in my head, 'In the search for truth, what is the most important question to ask?'.

I had no idea, so I tried going to sleep.  As I slipped into what I now know as the 'hypnogogic' state, a loud voice whispered in my ear, 'Who Am I?'

I bolted awake.  Not because of the loud voice but because I knew I now had the answer to my question.  The most important question for me to ask is: 'Who Am I?'

I knew that to seek the answer to that question was to seek God.  And I knew to seek God I would have to love God.  The idea was quite repulsive as I was still holding onto a very negative conception of God.  Why should I seek God when he allows such horror?

So I prayed for the first time in YEARS.  'Give me a reason to seek you.  Give me a reason to love you'.

The next day was when the experience happened.  My wife and I had just finished eating at a restraunt.  Things had GREATLY improved between us.  The experience with the twins had brought us closer together than ever.  We had been married for over seven years yet we were in love for the first time.

We sat in the car in the restraunt parking lot and we began to talk.  She told me how the twins had seemed to buy our lives with thiers.  Like they were 'sent' and by thier own free will decided to go to help us and our children.

Regardless of whether or not this is true doesn't matter.  What DOES matter is that as she was talking it was as if God were talking through her.  All at once I experienced the greatest single mega-synchronicity ever (I didn't even know synchronicities existed at the time).  Like God was saying, 'see, this is why you should seek me, this is why you should love me.  It's all good.'

It felt like every event that ever happened in my life was comming to a culminating fruition of absolute perfection.

And it kept building and building and I kept getting higher and higher and higher till *POP*.  I was outside of myself and indeed it was 'all good'.

Hope that clears it up a bit.  Good stuff it was.

Now how do 'I' get it back? 
Just kidding  :laugh:


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5813497 - 07/02/06 08:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hiya Fireworks!

How's life?


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: thatiAM]
    #5813508 - 07/02/06 08:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

thatiAM said:
It may feel like that Source but you have much more power to do stuff than you may be giving yourself credit for.  It is very easy to do, just start today and get in the habit of it.  Work your time up.  If you don't begin your meditating today when will you?  Ever?  :smile:

Peace




I keep telling myself, 'tomorow, tomorow, tomorow...'

But indeed, you are absolutely right!


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Source]
    #5813586 - 07/02/06 08:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

be careful what you ask for


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Veritas]
    #5813609 - 07/02/06 08:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:...I've met several long-time meditation practitioners who put forth an appearance of calm, but would become fidgety and impatient if they had to wait more than a few minutes on line at the grocery store...




you have been duped by stinky meditators and anti-meditationists, who might be fascists.

ayway, the checkout line test is a good one.
it probably should be reccommended to the american meditation association.


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5813797 - 07/02/06 09:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

What transcends the self? (What thing is transcending?)


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5813837 - 07/02/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

awareness:
attention enables suspension of the habit engine.
the self (bag-o-habits) is transcended by awareness.

anything may be an object of attention, i.e. something for awareness to immerse into.
the checkout line is an excellent opportunity to transcend self.

(the crux of meditation is this)


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5813901 - 07/02/06 10:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Awareness is seperate from the body, then?


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5814006 - 07/02/06 10:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

stinky meditators




Yes, they do seem to believe that dousing with patchouli oil will fill in for wearing deodorant.  :lol:


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Source]
    #5814767 - 07/03/06 04:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Source said:
IT is here and now...reality.  'I' have fallen into the habit of mentally playing out future and past scenarios moving my awareness of the reality here and now to abstract thoughts about a non-existant past and future.

It's a difficult habit to break!





But realizing and being aware of this is already a big part of breaking the habit! :wink: :thumbup:

And thanx for telling your story, interesting stuff. Apparently this kind of sudden contact with the nature of reality is fairly common and happens to alot of people, without using drugs, it just comes on its own, naturally. And alot of them are troubled when they see that state disappearing from their life, but they get mixed up when they ask "how do 'I' find that state again?", and its just source of lots of confusion and frustration.


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5814859 - 07/03/06 05:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Awareness is seperate from the body, then?




prior to sitting this question suggests too much thinking in a way that might not be useful.

after sitting "no-separation" is more directly understood. awareness and body are merged through the breath or other totality image.

all the parts are connected, but can be adjusted and reconfigured; even transcendence of self is non-separating, more like relaxing a pretzel without moving or rising or ascending (as the word might suggest).
instead it is more like interpenetration, which has a bit of a sexual aspect.


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5816219 - 07/03/06 02:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Wouldn't it be clearer to call the experience "being phenomenological", "refusing to jump to any conclusions", "escaping personal prejudice", etc? By saying "transcend the self" it seems to imply that some ambiguous thing is detaching itself and floating upwards like a balloon.


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how to stuff a pillow [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5816296 - 07/03/06 02:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

that would be upsend.
transcend means moving accross or through
interpenetration is more like it
but the net motion is like a moebius or a yi yang, or yabyum.
so mystical -eh?
what goes up, if anything,
is a kind of joy. like the release of gas.

phenomenological is more of a dry depressing and literal sounding way of being. but if it works, hey, chop me up some syllables.

by the way
some ambiguous thing is what happens, in the sense that words only weakly follow or create descriptions, and the act ( of transcending) is not one of word sequencing. any words involved are debris like the feathers of a plucked chicken.


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5817150 - 07/03/06 06:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"he would prefer to grow without meditation."

Wrong. I meditate and I am a strong believer in it's ability to tune the mind, but it is a means...not an end. There are many means. Meditation often is given too much importance....the focus should be on one's attitudes and actions.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5817525 - 07/03/06 08:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

how?

probably by a form of meditation.


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5817792 - 07/03/06 09:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Do you see all introspective work as a form of meditation, then?


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5818142 - 07/03/06 11:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I started out doing typical Zen style meditation when I was younger, but I drifted away from it in my mid 20s. In my mid 30s I started meditating again in the Tibetan Buddhist style. I eventually learned to move into a meditative state without all of the preparation typical eastern meditation requires in order to dynamically tap the higher self in solving problems and calming emotional states. As Veritas asked of you, I see all introspective states as a form of meditation. I can effectively quiet my mind to focus on important issues and bring me into the "now". My first go around with meditation ended in my 20s because I didn't know how to apply the mental techniques to everyday life...now I do....but I am careful not to see meditation as growth, but as a means to grow if used properly. It can also be a means to avoid growth, and it is for many practitioners.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5818923 - 07/04/06 05:41 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i see introspection as a pose
or possibly a posture (attitude).
not as a state.

the states of mind are independent of pose or content.
the states of mind are how vibrant or layered the mind is - you could say the degree of dreaminess to describe state, as this has to accommodate emotional as well as psychedelic modifications of resonance which we most commonly call states of mind.

introspection can be dry and literal or cosmic and so it can be associated with a range of states.

with meditation you can hone rough edges and clanging linkages in the self so that the mental system can run more smoothly. it is like rebuilding your engine.

it combines awareness and attitude, in order to adjust attitude by awareness.

the introspection finds a rough edge, and the concentration absorption centered on it heals the roughnesses and clangynesses by penetrating or sinking in.
this often also includes shifting resonance and traversing mental states, so it can be trippy.

the engine always needs some work, but not as much as when you first noticed that it was out of whack.

sometimes it gets tuned by a person expecting it would do something else once tuned than naturally equipped for - like black magic for instance, and sometimes that confusing intent affects the tuning process so that the engine is more messed up and finicky than when the sad mechanic started.


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Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5819078 - 07/04/06 08:15 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"with meditation you can hone rough edges and clanging linkages in the self so that the mental system can run more smoothly. it is like rebuilding your engine."

Good analogy


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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