|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: thatiAM]
#5813223 - 07/02/06 06:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Transcending the self is my suggestion, though meditation is good...it is merely a tool.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: thatiAM]
#5813239 - 07/02/06 06:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
thatiAM said:
Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: Meditation is a good exercise, but it is not required for spiritual growth.
I guess it is just what's easiest for me. What do you do to grow (or suggest)? I recommend it because even if it's not required for spiritual growth, it will undoubtedly foster spiritual growth.
it says more about huehuecoyotl than about the human condition in general. i.e. he would prefer to grow without meditation. of course I am paraphrasing (boldly).
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: redgreenvines]
#5813289 - 07/02/06 07:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I don't think that meditation is required for spiritual growth either. It is one tool among many, and can be misused as an excuse to avoid the active work of self-confrontation and action.
I've met several long-time meditation practitioners who put forth an appearance of calm, but would become fidgety and impatient if they had to wait more than a few minutes on line at the grocery store.
This is not to say that meditation cannot be used effectively, but I believe that we need other tools, as well as frequent "lab" work in our everyday lives, in order to grow spiritually.
|
thatiAM
Stranger

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1,250
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: redgreenvines]
#5813312 - 07/02/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Fair enough It's just (un?)fortunate there isn't a big red 'transcend self' button on everyone's chest. I guess figuring out that you never would have to push it in the first place is the point, because it's already been pushed for everyone. Waking up to your own already-awakeness is all that matters, and the only thing that prepares you for it is itself.
|
thatiAM
Stranger

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1,250
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: thatiAM]
#5813340 - 07/02/06 07:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Veritas- Come to think of it, I'm the only daily meditator I've ever met! Maybe you all are right. I guess for me personally it is useful, a time to give to the divine daily (not that waking life isn't a gift to the divine). Also it just plain feels good. I shower daily, eat daily, sleep daily...Why not meditate daily?
But everyone should find whatever path works best for them, so I'm glad you all are thinking about what works best for you personally
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: thatiAM]
#5813360 - 07/02/06 07:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Don't forget "brush and floss your teeth daily." 
Spiritual growth is wonderful, but dental problems are hellish, and we can't count on wishful thinking to regenerate them after they are gone. 
Yes, I think that meditation can be helpful, just not when it is used as a "rubber stamp" on one's spirituality. (i.e. I meditated today, therefore I am a spiritual person, and will not need to stretch myself in any other ways.)
|
Source
Remainder of anUnbalancedEquation


Registered: 07/28/03
Posts: 667
Loc: Outer Darkness
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: exclusive58]
#5813375 - 07/02/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
exclusive58 said: The thing to understand now, is that when you experienced this moment, the "I", the ego (your personality, your problems, your pleasures, your ambitions etc...) was temporarily absent. Therefore, it seems that by asking "how do I become more aware? how do I go back to that state of mind?", that you are asking the wrong question. What you should be asking is "what are the obstacles that are keeping me away from that state?". Get it? You kinda need to flip the question inside-out.
Yup, I get it (I think). It's such an absurd paradox. 'I want to experience peace', and yet it is precisely the 'I' that prevents the experience of peace! In a way, even believing that there are obstacles keeping me away from that state is tricky since there is really no 'me' and no way to be outside of 'IT'.
IT is here and now...reality. 'I' have fallen into the habit of mentally playing out future and past scenarios moving my awareness of the reality here and now to abstract thoughts about a non-existant past and future.
It's a difficult habit to break!
Quote:
exclusive58 said: Krishnamurti illustrated this idea with a nice example: You're going down an alley with an abundance of trees. In the face of so much beauty, you exclaim to yourself "Wow! How beautiful! This is amazing!". In this moment, the "I", with all its problems, ceases to exist. The second after, the "I" comes back. You then say to yourself "Well, here I am; my God, I wish I could find that state again!" without realizing that this demand is precisely that which, not only serves as an obstacle to that state, but it even reinforces the ego.
Dig Krishnamurti! Wasn't he once heralded as Lord Maitreya by Theosophist's? He said, "I do not want followers. My only concern is to set man absolutely, unconditionally free". As I said, dig Krisnamurti.
Anyway, yes, I see. Once again the 'I' is the problem.
Quote:
exclusive58 said: That's where I've been for some time now. Especially ever since I became 99% certain that US govt. was involved in 9/11. Nothing to be ashamed of though. What I do when I realize that I'm being negatively affected by wordly absurdities is that I just connect to the now moment, because what's happening right HERE and right NOW is so beautiful and its all that matters, and it puts a smile on my face
Same boat here and I wholeheartedly agree about finding the present again (and about 9/11 for that matter). I go through phases where I decide to just focus my attention on my real life...the life within the horizon of my awareness. What I can see and experience. My family, the room I am in, the sound of the fan...
But then I worry. 'What's going on in the world? Will my kids end up in a draft? How's the economy? What's the deal with Israel? Iraq? Iran? Bush? Global warming? Bird flu?
Then I remember to just chill out and the cycle starts again. I'm addicted to DOOOOOM!
-------------------- What you're searching for is what's searching.
|
Source
Remainder of anUnbalancedEquation


Registered: 07/28/03
Posts: 667
Loc: Outer Darkness
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: exclusive58]
#5813487 - 07/02/06 08:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
exclusive58 said: Oh I forgot to ask you, just out of curiosity, do you think you can remember what exactly triggered that state you were in, what "lifted you up" outside of your limited perspective? Did it have anything to do with the conversation you were having with your wife? With the environment you were in? With the thoughts you were having?
I'll try to paraphrase as it's a long story.
Looking back at my life I can kind of map out my spiritual growth from magical to mythical to rational to spritual/causal (to loosely use Ken Wilber's roadmap).
I had given up on 'Christianity' or what passes for it these days and had spent a good eight years in my rational phase looking for objective truth as revealed by science.
Toward the end of this phase my wife and I were not very close and I didn't expect our marriage to last much longer. On top of that we were expecting twins in addition to the two boys we already had.
We learned that there was a complication with the pregnancy and had to decide if we wanted to do nothing and let them die or employ the limited amount of medical help available at the time...creating the risk (50%) that they could be born with cerebral palsy. Difficult decision to say the least.
Regardless of what we chose to do, in the end they both died.
One night after things settled down, I found myself wondering whether or not science could ever find the objective truth about our origins. I went to bed with the same thought repeating over and over in my head, 'In the search for truth, what is the most important question to ask?'.
I had no idea, so I tried going to sleep. As I slipped into what I now know as the 'hypnogogic' state, a loud voice whispered in my ear, 'Who Am I?'
I bolted awake. Not because of the loud voice but because I knew I now had the answer to my question. The most important question for me to ask is: 'Who Am I?'
I knew that to seek the answer to that question was to seek God. And I knew to seek God I would have to love God. The idea was quite repulsive as I was still holding onto a very negative conception of God. Why should I seek God when he allows such horror?
So I prayed for the first time in YEARS. 'Give me a reason to seek you. Give me a reason to love you'.
The next day was when the experience happened. My wife and I had just finished eating at a restraunt. Things had GREATLY improved between us. The experience with the twins had brought us closer together than ever. We had been married for over seven years yet we were in love for the first time.
We sat in the car in the restraunt parking lot and we began to talk. She told me how the twins had seemed to buy our lives with thiers. Like they were 'sent' and by thier own free will decided to go to help us and our children.
Regardless of whether or not this is true doesn't matter. What DOES matter is that as she was talking it was as if God were talking through her. All at once I experienced the greatest single mega-synchronicity ever (I didn't even know synchronicities existed at the time). Like God was saying, 'see, this is why you should seek me, this is why you should love me. It's all good.'
It felt like every event that ever happened in my life was comming to a culminating fruition of absolute perfection.
And it kept building and building and I kept getting higher and higher and higher till *POP*. I was outside of myself and indeed it was 'all good'.
Hope that clears it up a bit. Good stuff it was.
Now how do 'I' get it back? Just kidding
-------------------- What you're searching for is what's searching.
|
Source
Remainder of anUnbalancedEquation


Registered: 07/28/03
Posts: 667
Loc: Outer Darkness
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: fireworks_god]
#5813497 - 07/02/06 08:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Hiya Fireworks!
How's life?
-------------------- What you're searching for is what's searching.
|
Source
Remainder of anUnbalancedEquation


Registered: 07/28/03
Posts: 667
Loc: Outer Darkness
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: thatiAM]
#5813508 - 07/02/06 08:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
thatiAM said: It may feel like that Source but you have much more power to do stuff than you may be giving yourself credit for. It is very easy to do, just start today and get in the habit of it. Work your time up. If you don't begin your meditating today when will you? Ever? 
Peace
I keep telling myself, 'tomorow, tomorow, tomorow...'
But indeed, you are absolutely right!
-------------------- What you're searching for is what's searching.
|
Schwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Source]
#5813586 - 07/02/06 08:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
be careful what you ask for
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Veritas]
#5813609 - 07/02/06 08:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Veritas said:...I've met several long-time meditation practitioners who put forth an appearance of calm, but would become fidgety and impatient if they had to wait more than a few minutes on line at the grocery store...
you have been duped by stinky meditators and anti-meditationists, who might be fascists.
ayway, the checkout line test is a good one. it probably should be reccommended to the american meditation association.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5813797 - 07/02/06 09:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
What transcends the self? (What thing is transcending?)
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5813837 - 07/02/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
awareness: attention enables suspension of the habit engine. the self (bag-o-habits) is transcended by awareness.
anything may be an object of attention, i.e. something for awareness to immerse into. the checkout line is an excellent opportunity to transcend self.
(the crux of meditation is this)
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: redgreenvines]
#5813901 - 07/02/06 10:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Awareness is seperate from the body, then?
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: redgreenvines]
#5814006 - 07/02/06 10:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
stinky meditators
Yes, they do seem to believe that dousing with patchouli oil will fill in for wearing deodorant.
|
exclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: Source]
#5814767 - 07/03/06 04:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Source said: IT is here and now...reality. 'I' have fallen into the habit of mentally playing out future and past scenarios moving my awareness of the reality here and now to abstract thoughts about a non-existant past and future.
It's a difficult habit to break!
But realizing and being aware of this is already a big part of breaking the habit! 
And thanx for telling your story, interesting stuff. Apparently this kind of sudden contact with the nature of reality is fairly common and happens to alot of people, without using drugs, it just comes on its own, naturally. And alot of them are troubled when they see that state disappearing from their life, but they get mixed up when they ask "how do 'I' find that state again?", and its just source of lots of confusion and frustration.
--------------------
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5814859 - 07/03/06 05:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: Awareness is seperate from the body, then?
prior to sitting this question suggests too much thinking in a way that might not be useful.
after sitting "no-separation" is more directly understood. awareness and body are merged through the breath or other totality image.
all the parts are connected, but can be adjusted and reconfigured; even transcendence of self is non-separating, more like relaxing a pretzel without moving or rising or ascending (as the word might suggest). instead it is more like interpenetration, which has a bit of a sexual aspect.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
|
Re: Took A Spiritual Break For A While... [Re: redgreenvines]
#5816219 - 07/03/06 02:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Wouldn't it be clearer to call the experience "being phenomenological", "refusing to jump to any conclusions", "escaping personal prejudice", etc? By saying "transcend the self" it seems to imply that some ambiguous thing is detaching itself and floating upwards like a balloon.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
|
that would be upsend. transcend means moving accross or through interpenetration is more like it but the net motion is like a moebius or a yi yang, or yabyum. so mystical -eh? what goes up, if anything, is a kind of joy. like the release of gas.
phenomenological is more of a dry depressing and literal sounding way of being. but if it works, hey, chop me up some syllables.
by the way some ambiguous thing is what happens, in the sense that words only weakly follow or create descriptions, and the act ( of transcending) is not one of word sequencing. any words involved are debris like the feathers of a plucked chicken.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
|