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xDuckYouSuckerx
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Anyone know much about fireworks?
#5809842 - 07/01/06 01:57 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm wondering about M-80's, the "real deal", not the stuff you can buy in the states. FYI, no firework that you purchase legally in the USA without an explosives license (not a retail fireworks license, a real blasters license) has more than 50 milligrams of charge in it. Aerials are excluded from this specific regulation but subject to other stringent (absurd, arbitrary, capricious) regulations. A "military specification" (as the M-80 was a military invention) M-80 has three grams of powder in it. I'm wondering if the powder would be just plain smokeless powder or something a bit more complex.
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
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Fireworks are illegal here in NY and we always get the good shit. We usually go for "quarter pounders".. (quarter sticks)
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Konnrade
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It would have taken less than 30 seconds to learn the answer from Wikipedia.
M-80's are full of "flash powder", a very rapidly-reacting mixture of fine-mesh aluminum powder with a powerful oxidizer.
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deryl
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Re: Anyone know much about fireworks? [Re: Konnrade]
#5809899 - 07/01/06 02:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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fireworks really aren't that dangerous EXCEPT when they're in a confined area and there's nowhere for the energy to escape.
you could blow up an m80 in the palm of your hand and only get a burn, but if you tried it with a closed fist you'd have some injuries.
theyre not powerful enough to blow your hand off or anything, but the result would not be pleasant.
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Gumby
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Re: Anyone know much about fireworks? [Re: deryl]
#5809920 - 07/01/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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You sure about that?
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xDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Anyone know much about fireworks? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#5809925 - 07/01/06 02:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quarter sticks aren't quarter sticks, they don't sell "quarter sticks" of dynamite. Quarter sticks use flashpowder, as do other explosives of their nature.
http://www.fireworksland.com/html/m80.html
Thats an EXCELLENT site about fireworks, it slipped my mind that I had it bookmarked. It also discusses the chemical compounds used in the devices.
Konnrade - I don't trust wikipedia for information relating to making explosives, sorry 
Although in this case wiki is correct, it's not really an engineering or pyrotechnic oriented site.
-------------------- Unions are the bastions of the mediocre. - luvdemshrooms
Edited by xDuckYouSuckerx (07/01/06 02:22 PM)
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xDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Anyone know much about fireworks? [Re: deryl]
#5809934 - 07/01/06 02:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thats idiotic. If you set off a charge in your hand, the shockwave will travelthrough your hand. A high explosive charge is "compressed" wherever it is, because the EXTREME force produced by it is much, much higher than the force of the athmosphere "pressing in" on it. A much better example would be a round of ammunition. If you throw it in the fire, it will eventually "cook off", some sparks will be created and the bullet will go about 5 inches. In the barrel of a gun, that same bullet would be pushed out by the expanding gasses and travel two miles. However, if you hold a 16oz chunk of C4 in your open hand and set it off, it's going to be blown off. Thats two of the military issued rolls of C4, so you'd most likely lose your entire body in the blast.
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deryl
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yeah C4 will blow your hand off, but an m80 won't, because it isn't an explosive.
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Asante
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Re: Anyone know much about fireworks? [Re: deryl]
#5810003 - 07/01/06 02:49 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Deryl, you are seriously mixing things up.
The open hand/closed hand thing holds true for black powder firecrackers, not for M80 Grenade Simulants, which M80s are.
At three grams of flash powder your open hand will not just suffer burns but also you'll break some handbones because your hand can't flex with the ripple. You'll likely be deaf in one ear too.
A real M80 is an incredibly powerful device intended to simulate the explosion of grenades in US Army training, and it happens to be usable as if it were a firework.
A *real* M80 in your closed fist will tear all your fingers off and slam the palm of your hand into meatloaf. Flashpowder is terrible stuff and nobody should experiment with it.
A guy who makes flashpowder firecrackers is too plain lazy to make decent paper-and-glue containment and takes idiotic risks by simply settling for a far more dangerous mixture.
If you know what you're doing then smokeless powder is far superior in safety and just as good as flashpowder.
Quote:
yeah C4 will blow your hand off, but an m80 won't, because it isn't an explosive.
Not a flame but WTF are you saying? Several flashpowder mixes accellerate into detonation velocity shortly after ignition with some confinement. Under the right conditions a FOREST is an explosive, so what are you saying?
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Edited by Asante (07/01/06 02:52 PM)
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xDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Anyone know much about fireworks? [Re: deryl]
#5810010 - 07/01/06 02:50 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Incorrect yet again. While you could have read the link that I posted, you'd see that flashpowder, especially when contained properly in a cardboard shell,does function as a high explosive. The word "explosive" isn't very specific, either. Low order explosives, those that have a shockwave less than the speed of sound, such as gunpowder and smokeless powder, aren't used to make commercially available fireworks, unless the amount in each device is less than 50 milligrams. You couldn't have a high order explosive, such as RDX (the 'active ingredient in C4) experience detonation unless you use a blasting cap.
Regardless, if you take flash powder and pour it on your hand and ignite it, it won't "blow your hand off". If you take that flash powder and put it a rigid cardboard tube, use enough that it will really go into "detonation" mode and support it's own detonation (more than 3g), prime it through the side so that it gets good contact with the explosive, and put it in your hand, you'll be left a few fingers short.
I took an Old Spice Body Spray (better than axe, which uses some propanol gas, it uses butane) and put it nozzle down into the dirt using the nozzle as a "stand" so it wouldn't tilt. I put a M-80 made with smokeless powder (3.2g powder) on the top in the indentation the containers have. It ruptured the aluminum and caused rapid deflagration of the butane.
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Asante
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Quote:
Low order explosives, those that have a shockwave less than the speed of sound,
Important distinction: less than the speed of sound of the medium it propagates through.
Speed of sound in air = 333 meters/sec Black powder can reach an easy 400m/sec Flashpowder easily can go over 1km/sec
This may not be over the speed of sound in the solid, but it is in air, meaning that outside the confinement you get a brisant (shattering) shockwave.
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Konnrade
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Quote:
xDuckYouSuckerx said: Konnrade - I don't trust wikipedia for information relating to making explosives, sorry 
Although in this case wiki is correct, it's not really an engineering or pyrotechnic oriented site.
It's good to be cautious, but Wikipedia is not all that bad about explosives, at least not from what I've seen.
the composition of M-80's is pretty common knowledge anyways.
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deryl
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Re: Anyone know much about fireworks? [Re: Asante]
#5810342 - 07/01/06 05:14 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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well I guess I was thinking that smokeless powder and flash powder were more similar than they really are.
I've seen what smokeless powder does when ignited, and I wouldn't call the result an explosion. It's definitely combustible, but it really just burns off quickly instead of having some dramatic "pop".
I'd say black powder or pyrodex causes an explosion.
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
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Quote:
xDuckYouSuckerx said: Quarter sticks aren't quarter sticks, they don't sell "quarter sticks" of dynamite. Quarter sticks use flashpowder, as do other explosives of their nature.
Well I don't care what they're made with, they are pretty damn loud.
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
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Konnrade
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Re: Anyone know much about fireworks? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#5810424 - 07/01/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I prefer setting off mortar shells outside of the tubes.
Those will leave craters
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