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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Interesting article about sex and the holy life
    #5809897 - 07/01/06 02:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I was looking around the sacred texts site linked from erowid, and I came across this teisho that was delivered during a Zen sesshin adressing human sexuality.  It is quite an interesting read...

Check it out  here

:heart: Peace :heart:

:hippie:


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InvisibleBravo
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Re: Interesting article about sex and the holy life [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #5809930 - 07/01/06 02:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Great story. Thanks for sharing.


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"You do not see things as they are, you see things as you are." -Dyer


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Interesting article about sex and the holy life [Re: Bravo]
    #5810066 - 07/01/06 03:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

What makes you think you can create new threads in this forum without letting us all know how your experience was with the experiment of particular interest to certain other individuals here? :mad:

:tongue:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Re: Interesting article about sex and the holy life [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5810170 - 07/01/06 03:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
What makes you think you can create new threads in this forum without letting us all know how your experience was with the experiment of particular interest to certain other individuals here? :mad:

:tongue:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




uhhh.... look at the original thread, and in the trip reports section. Its been up since yesterday.  :tongue:

:grin:


:heart: Peace :heart:

:hippie:


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OfflinePed
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Re: Interesting article about sex and the holy life [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #5819463 - 07/04/06 10:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I'm going to stick my neck out here (what else is new), and say that I found the article rather lacking. Too often discourses like these are taken as justification for our essentially confused, self-centred state of profound spiritual laziness. "See, the Zen lady said sex is good." Rather than overcoming piety, sometimes articles like these serve only to reinforce it. This happens when no clear distinctions are made between problematic ideas and more productive ones.

Namely, no explanation was given as to how we are to parse the passions and desire which bind us to suffering from those which are a "celebration of life", and are characteristics of a perfectly enlightened Bodhisattva. The fact of the matter is that our desire, including (or perhaps especially) our sexual desire, binds us to the sufferings of birth and death. How do we transcend such a predicament without falling to the other extreme and becoming at war with our own nature? How do we seperate the impurities from the water without throwing out the water? There is no explanation given. There is only a briefly described vauge ideal contrasted against a long-winded explanation of why our current attitudes are wrong.

Speaking as someone searching for answers to these questions specifically, I found the article rather unsatisfactory.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Interesting article about sex and the holy life [Re: Ped]
    #5819569 - 07/04/06 11:13 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Let me tell you about the middle path. Dressing in rough and dirty garments, letting your hair grow matted, abstaining from eating any meat or fish, does not cleanse the one who is deluded. Mortifying the flesh through excessive hardship does not lead to a triumph over the senses. All self-inflicted suffering is useless as long as the feeling of self is dominent.

You should lose your involvement with yourself and then eat and drink naturally, according to the needs of your body. Attachment to your appetites - whether you deprive or indulge them - can lead to slavery, but satisfying the needs of daily life is not wrong. Indeed, to keep a body in good health is a duty, for otherwise the mind will not stay strong and clear.
From Discourses II




I do not think that it is necessary, or beneficial, to "parse the passions and desire which bind us to suffering from those which are a 'celebration of life'," as the difference is within.

If you are grasping at those passions, even if it is combined with strict denial of their existence, you have become attached to them.

If you can experience them as they arise, allow them expression within the bounds of your compassion and concern for others, and release them when they pass, you have not become attached.

As Ikkyu wrote (quoted in the article):

"From the world of passions returning to the world of passions:
There is a moments pause.
If it rains, let it rain; if the wind blows, let it blow."


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OfflinePed
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Re: Interesting article about sex and the holy life [Re: Veritas]
    #5849126 - 07/11/06 10:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, I agree this is an ideal condition, but I must insist: arriving at such non-attachment is very tricky and requires discipline. It is not something we simply decide upon one day; it requires practise over a long period. The article seems to suggest that no real discipline is necessary when contemplating a means of harnessing our natural sexual energy and channeling it in peaceful and productive directions, instead of the much more common tendencies toward conflict and self-destruction.

My question is this: what sort of discipline is appropriate? What discipline guides us to freedom without leaving us vulnerable to our own ignorance, arriving at states of repression and self-denial? I understand that the precise articulation of such a discipline is highly subjective, but in spite of this there must some guidelines we can follow. Who can show us these?


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Interesting article about sex and the holy life [Re: Ped]
    #5849778 - 07/12/06 03:32 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

the appeal to use mindfullness in the reading meant the following to me:

be cognizant of how this is an essay about healing.
use it for healing
bounce it around with others for healing.

it is ok to criticize it for academic reasons or for personal taste, which may require a more deft organization of ideas or less pedantic approach to issues or less personal take on moralities, but, in spite of all those points, it is still good medicine.

it's a good medicine against taking oneself too seriously
and it's a good medicine for appreciating the richness in life as it arises.


when I am reminded to use mindfulness,
I call up an attitude that integrates the matter into wisdom and healing


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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