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OfflineSyle
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The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries.
    #5809568 - 07/01/06 12:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I am having a hard time putting this thought into words. I was thinking about this the other day. We have ears/ear drums that take in audio sound and relay it to our brain in a way that we can process it. Correct?

But, does the function of our ears buffer the sound coming in? Are sounds actually louder than we percieve them to be? And if that is so, how can we measure sound at all? Wouldn't it just be a relative measurement then?

I am confusing myself now...like I said, hard putting that into words. Let me know if anyone actually understands what I am saying :smile:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809602 - 07/01/06 12:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"Let me know if anyone actually understands what I am saying"

I sure don't.  :confused:


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5809662 - 07/01/06 12:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hmmm, okay. Image if sound were like time. Immeasureable (sp?).

Because our ears buffer the sound waves coming in, we don't hear them as they should be. A form of control takes over and we hear the sound the way our ear tells us we should.

But, what if we could hear without our ears and actually tap into the unaltered sound waves.

If that doesn't make sense...I give up  :wink:


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809669 - 07/01/06 12:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

All measurements are relative to the instrument doing the measuring.

They are just calibrated so that there is some consistency to measurements made by others.

A pebble to you is a boulder to an ant. All things observed are relative to the observer.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809678 - 07/01/06 12:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

what if we could hear without our ears and actually tap into the unaltered sound waves.

Huh? How else could we perceive sound?


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5809778 - 07/01/06 01:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
what if we could hear without our ears and actually tap into the unaltered sound waves.

Huh? How else could we perceive sound?




Well, we percieve sound through our ears. But just use your imagination and try to imagine hearing sound unaltered from our ears.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809855 - 07/01/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

OK, here is a little psychoacoustics and mechanics of sound 101.

The human hearing threshhold for audible sound is -1/4th decibels to 160 dB, or in other words, from when sound starts affecting your ear drum to damaging them.
I guess the first question you are asking is like the whole "do we all see the same blue" question, but maybe here is some info that can help you draw your own conclusion.

Most likely, you have never heard true silence in your entire life, at any point in time there are atleast 20 decibels of random noise..... just the window down, driving on the interstate is something like 60 decibels of noise.

Everything is vibration, which gives off sound in a sense, if we had the capability to perceive all sound, it would drive every person to suicide.

An Oscilloscope graphs electricity, which has the same properties as sound. So, basically, sound is just a certain form of energy propagated through a medium. Sound is created through the compression and rarefaction (decompression) of a medium, this is why one perfect note looks like a sine wave.
most sound starts off as nothing more than mechanical energy, which can also look just like a sine wave. The mechanical energy is then run through a transducer such as a speaker, where the ebb and flow of the sine wave of the mechanical energy runs across a magnet, which cause the magnet to push or pull away from a stable polarized object.... this magnet is connected to the speaker which makes it push in and out as well, which creates the compression and rarefaction of pressurized medium (the air).

So this speaker makes a sound wave, which is perceived by our ear drum which is just another transducer.... it changes sound waves into perceptual data, almost exactly like a microphone.


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5809904 - 07/01/06 02:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Okay, I totally get everything you are saying. Very cool stuff by the way.

So, in a sense, using the information you just gave us, we still aren't truly percieving sound in it's purest state, correct?


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809913 - 07/01/06 02:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Thats like saying, "try to percieve blue without your eyes."


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5809916 - 07/01/06 02:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Exactly. I am just trying to throw some abstract thought out there is all...


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809919 - 07/01/06 02:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

There is no "purest state" of sound, or sight, or smell, or any of our other senses. These things do not exist independently of our ability to percieve them.


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Silversoul]
    #5809932 - 07/01/06 02:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

But, if a sense or something percieved through a gateway of our body, some of that sensory information is lost or altered so that we may percieve it, that is all I am saying.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809952 - 07/01/06 02:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It's not "lost" in our perception. It gains something when our brain processes it. There are people with brain damage whose eyes work as well as yours or mine, but who cannot recognize objects, because that part of their brain is damaged.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809972 - 07/01/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

but that is true of everything pertaining to "reality". Our "reality" is merely a perceptual approximation of "true reality".

I don't think any sensory information is lost, unless you have damaged perception like nearsightedness or scarred ear drum. Audio studies have shown that 12 year old girls have the best possible human hearing.... there has to be some limit to our tangible perceptions lest we be bombarded with sensory overload: hearing the hundreds of sub and ultra harmonic frequencies that come with the tapping of a glass, hearing things like x-rays, radio waves break the sound barrier.... it would be deafening.... imagine hearing a whip crack constantly, that is what it would sound like if you could perceive the inaudible cracks of radio waves and x-rays breaking the speed of sound.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5810059 - 07/01/06 03:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

All right, take what you just said, but read it to yourself, as though you were on acid while you were reading it.

If you were on acid while you read that, you'd probably try to realize the concept of the sound of radio waves and x-rays breaking the speed of sound.. and you'd be all like.... holy shit, that's insane, true stuff to think about.

:shocked:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
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--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Silversoul]
    #5810090 - 07/01/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You can definitely get another perspective in regards to sonic interpretation.  Look at bass.  You can feel the waves in your body. 

Or what about light? Light is simply the same electromagnetic waves at a much higher frequency.  We see it with our eyes. Same energy, but an entirely different perception. Light becomes visible at a wavelength of approximately 750 nanometers (billionth of a meter) which is roughly 4x10^14 hertz (400 000 000 000 000 cycles per cecond, or 400 000 giga  hertz).  The average range of hearing is approiximately 20-20 000 hertz.  There is a lot there that we cannot sense, or do so at unconscious levels.  Basically, if you look at a piano, the standard tuning note is A=440 hertz.  so an "A" note 40 octaves up (440 x 2^40 [frequency doubles every octave] = 4.84x10^14 hertz) would be seen and not heard. Therfore the only boundary I can see, is the sensitivity of the individual sense organs, and there connection to and from certain neurological pathways. 

It seems to me, that the frequencies that we can pickup, are there for survivals sake, with combined hearing and seeing, it allows us to sense potential dangers, or other basic survival necessities such as flowing water, colorful food, attractive mates etc..., in every direction on a 3 dimensional plane.  I wonder what causes of environmental stress would be necessary to start an evolution of awareness of other frequencies? (Hmmm, i'm going to start another thread on this)

:heart: Peace :heart:

:hippie:


Edited by Quoiyaien (07/01/06 03:30 PM)


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Offline5taples
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5810640 - 07/01/06 07:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

That was interesting.. I guess it all comes down to perception

By the way, hey everyone, I'm new :smile:.


Edited by 5taples (07/01/06 07:23 PM)


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InvisibleSoY
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: 5taples]
    #5810963 - 07/01/06 09:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Has anyone not seen the Izthak Bentov video From Atoms to Cosmos?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5058672332658910022

This video has so many interesting ideas that are pretty consistent with my views. There is a section discussing sound, vibrations, energy, etc. that seems relevant to this thread.....

Everyone should watch this video. Ben was a genius......


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5815378 - 07/03/06 10:16 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think someone surely said that:
We only perceive what is necessary for us to interact with.
For a honey bee, a field of flowers looks totally different than we see it, because it sees also ultraviolet light.
For a dog, his universe is almost only built on smells. Why he can hear high pitched sound ? I don't know, perhaps they also emerge from animals digging underground, so he can find them ?
Some fishes can feel the electric charges of other muscles, so they can detect their bait if the bait moves.

Most senses are very specific and are built for us to identify our environment in the matter which it is relevant to us.

Amplification is necessary if one sense is specially important to survive for some animals, like for eagles to see in the distance, bats to hear their ultrasonic screams, for whales to receive sub-sonic sounds and so on and so on.

The information is there or is not. Amplification is only necessary in a subjective way for an organism to recognize.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5815813 - 07/03/06 12:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
I think someone surely said that:
We only perceive what is necessary for us to interact with.
For a honey bee, a field of flowers looks totally different than we see it, because it sees also ultraviolet light.
For a dog, his universe is almost only built on smells. Why he can hear high pitched sound ? I don't know, perhaps they also emerge from animals digging underground, so he can find them ?
Some fishes can feel the electric charges of other muscles, so they can detect their bait if the bait moves.

Most senses are very specific and are built for us to identify our environment in the matter which it is relevant to us.

Amplification is necessary if one sense is specially important to survive for some animals, like for eagles to see in the distance, bats to hear their ultrasonic screams, for whales to receive sub-sonic sounds and so on and so on.

The information is there or is not. Amplification is only necessary in a subjective way for an organism to recognize.




So, do you think our senses are regressing while our intelligence is progressing at an astounding rate? Because, humans are gradually becoming less and less dependent on our 5 senses to survive in the wild.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5816174 - 07/03/06 02:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Oops, no. We become more and more dependent of them, that is why we use so much technology to get aware and even better aware of what our senses can't support.
But the conglomeration of all information must not be disregarded by this view..
Only the sum and the 'diversity' make sense 'together'.

It is about getting as much information as possible about something what matters to us.
For best ways for our interaction.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5816269 - 07/03/06 02:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hmmm, it still seems to me that perhaps in 1000 years or 10,000 years, however long it takes, our senses might regress to a 1/4 or 1/10 or whatever, of the acuteness they are now simply because we do not rely on them anymore to be perfectly trained. Perhaps I am just talking about classical conditioning of the 5 senses to only things that matter to us anymore (in modern times, hearing = music, entertainment, communicating, whereas it used to be hearing = protection against predators in the wild, etc)


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5816344 - 07/03/06 03:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

huh


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5816499 - 07/03/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

But we just recognized that we only can experience a small range of natural information directly, yet. We will need all our senses to develop means to recognize the other range of that spectrum.
Total mind-journey without outside-relations will not give valuable feedback, so our senses are in no danger to go dull.
Perhaps overinformation will make some senses dull.
That is why we have to evade 'unnatural' overload of information from time to time...to sharpen our senses.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5816820 - 07/03/06 05:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Perhaps overinformation will make some senses dull.
That is why we have to evade 'unnatural' overload of information from time to time...to sharpen our senses.




This is what I was talking about. Through societal conditioning, TV, loud music, etc (and if we keep up the sensory overload for a millenia lets say...) then our senses will regress.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5816832 - 07/03/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I don't understand the logic behind that. If the sensory devices are recieving an overload of sensation, then it would make more sense that the senses would evolve to better receive the higher amount of sensory data that is interacting with the device.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5816852 - 07/03/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
I don't understand the logic behind that. If the sensory devices are recieving an overload of sensation, then it would make more sense that the senses would evolve to better receive the higher amount of sensory data that is interacting with the device.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




Well, take this example. Take your average human who has been overloaded with TV, music and any other type of sensory overload you can think of.

Then throw them out into the woods and see how well they can hear a cougar hunting them. Or whehter or not they can hear a flowing river in the distance.

I doubt this person would be as well prepared "sense-wise" as someone who doesn't get all this modern sensory overloading.

Now, if this is kept up for centuries and centuries, don't you think that our instinctual senses will regress?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5816878 - 07/03/06 05:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

What do you mean by "sensory overload"? More sensory input than what the device can detect, or a certain kind of sensory input that is doing physical damage to the device?

I don't understand how a sense that is normally exposed to higher levels of sensory input is somehow going to be less able to detect sounds when there is not as much sensory data, unless the device itself receives physical damage... which makes one wonder if, over time, the device would evolve to the point where it would not be damaged by higher levels of sensory data. :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5817055 - 07/03/06 06:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Oh! Interesting thought!

I suppose I was refering to "damage to the device" when I was talking about overload.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5817608 - 07/03/06 08:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
What do you mean by "sensory overload"? More sensory input than what the device can detect, or a certain kind of sensory input that is doing physical damage to the device?

I don't understand how a sense that is normally exposed to higher levels of sensory input is somehow going to be less able to detect sounds when there is not as much sensory data, unless the device itself receives physical damage... which makes one wonder if, over time, the device would evolve to the point where it would not be damaged by higher levels of sensory data. :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




Your ear has a sensory clamp. If you expose yourself to too much volume of noise/music for too long a period, your ears will put about a -20 dB pad on themselves.

Im sure you have noticed that when you come out of a loud concert you feel like you need to pop your ears.....

this happens with smell as well... im not sure about sight though.


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5817670 - 07/03/06 09:04 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Quote:

fireworks_god said:
What do you mean by "sensory overload"? More sensory input than what the device can detect, or a certain kind of sensory input that is doing physical damage to the device?

I don't understand how a sense that is normally exposed to higher levels of sensory input is somehow going to be less able to detect sounds when there is not as much sensory data, unless the device itself receives physical damage... which makes one wonder if, over time, the device would evolve to the point where it would not be damaged by higher levels of sensory data. :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




Your ear has a sensory clamp. If you expose yourself to too much volume of noise/music for too long a period, your ears will put about a -20 dB pad on themselves.

Im sure you have noticed that when you come out of a loud concert you feel like you need to pop your ears.....

this happens with smell as well... im not sure about sight though.




Damn't...someone can always explain what's in my head better than i can  :crazy:  Good post


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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5817683 - 07/03/06 09:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:

I don't understand how a sense that is normally exposed to higher levels of sensory input is somehow going to be less able to detect sounds when there is not as much sensory data, unless the device itself receives physical damage... which makes one wonder if, over time, the device would evolve to the point where it would not be damaged by higher levels of sensory data. :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




I wonder, even if we are consistantly exposed to high volumes, wouldnt the mutation leading to the eventual evolution still require some benefit to survival for it to be effectively passed on to subsequent generations?  Unless the people who are exposing themselves to high volumes die if their ears do not adapt, I cant see how this could become an evolutionary advancement. Maybe if the deaf people lose their sex appeal, that would actually do it.

I imagine though, that if the ears evolved to the point of non-damage at high volumes, it would be a de-sensitization to the sonic input, therefor resulting in a downregulation of the sense. I think the range of what we hear would remain relatively consistent, which in essence would only put us more out of sync with the natural world, and more in tune with that of man and machine. 


:heart: Peace :heart:

:hippie:


Edited by Quoiyaien (07/03/06 10:00 PM)


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Offlinekotik
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5824174 - 07/05/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Image if sound were like time. Immeasureable (sp?).




but its not, a soundwave is like a lightwave or any other wave. its a vibration.

Quote:

But, what if we could hear without our ears and actually tap into the unaltered sound waves.




ever heard of a neurophone?


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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: kotik]
    #5824665 - 07/05/06 06:06 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

ohh, what's a neurophone?


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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5824772 - 07/05/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Syle said:
ohh, what's a neurophone?




Neurophone

:hippie:


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #5825221 - 07/05/06 08:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

This profound digital engineering offers a quality of ultrasonic transmission that is more accurate and rich in harmonics than an analog representation, offering a more enriching and stimulating experience.




this is complete bullshit. Poo on the neurophone. This thing is such a piece of crap it probably never made it onto the 4 am Popeil show.

Profound digital engineering.....HA! The day will come when the sample rate of digital audio will be able to accurately replicate analog audio, but never will digital audio surpass analog audio.

This is like trying to say that there is a color out there that is whiter than the purest white......


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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5828003 - 07/06/06 03:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:

Profound digital engineering.....HA! The day will come when the sample rate of digital audio will be able to accurately replicate analog audio, but never will digital audio surpass analog audio.





Amen brother!

:hippie:


Edited by Quoiyaien (07/06/06 05:47 PM)


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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5828855 - 07/06/06 06:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

If we don't blow ourselves up or anything, over the next century some people will almost certainly begin to use genetic engineering to enhance the senses we already have. Maybe even add senses we don't have now. We'll probably figure out the implant scene sooner than later, first to repair broken senses (give sight to the blind) and then to enhance anyone's senses.

Actually it will only start to happen this century. I think it will take a while for most people to get used to, and will probably be banned in many countries. I think it already is in the US.


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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: trendal]
    #5828870 - 07/06/06 06:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
If we don't blow ourselves up or anything, over the next century some people will almost certainly begin to use genetic engineering to enhance the senses we already have. Maybe even add senses we don't have now. We'll probably figure out the implant scene sooner than later, first to repair broken senses (give sight to the blind) and then to enhance anyone's senses.

Actually it will only start to happen this century. I think it will take a while for most people to get used to, and will probably be banned in many countries. I think it already is in the US.




What other senses could there be?


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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5828891 - 07/06/06 06:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

None that I can think of, it's just a possibility. Who knows what they could do after 200 years of genetic engineering? Or 1000 years?


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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5828912 - 07/06/06 06:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

We'll definitely try enhancing our current senses first.

Like being able to see ultraviolet or radio waves or one of the other non-visible bands of light.


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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: trendal]
    #5828966 - 07/06/06 07:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, I hear yah there. But developing new senses would be something like telepathy.


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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5828996 - 07/06/06 07:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Just as we hear music, fish feel music as vibrations. Just as we can feel the heat of something, snakes can see the heat.

I think we can perceive a part of every facet of reality, it is just the medium of perception and sensitivity would change.


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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5830670 - 07/07/06 06:23 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

But, what if we could hear without our ears and actually tap into the unaltered sound waves.

The wave is reacting with some structure inside your ear, which produces the sound. By changing the dimensions of that structure (a larger or more rigid membrane, for example), you can change the amplitude and the frequency in arbitrary ways, like different animals hearing sound differently. By adding complexity and/or hacking the brain you can make the barking of a dog sound like beethoven’s fifth symphony, or with a little more effort, you can see colors instead (you have to attach afferent neurons to the oscillating cochlea and use it to exhibit the photoreceptor cells in the eye - don't do that unless you're a professional).

So this seems to be pretty much arbitrary. Give me thing A, thing B, and enough control over your brain, and I can make you experience B as A and A as B - that is, by hacking your experiental structure I will make you see a car as a dog, understand blue as loud, and confuse concepts with breakfast cereals.

I guess the sound is a relationship between the wave and your ear. Changing the wave, or changing the ear, produces arbitrarily different sounds. Tapping into the unaltered sound wave is, therefore, experiencing every possible relationship the sound wave can form with something else, including ears.

It is being the sound wave.


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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Nomad]
    #5830683 - 07/07/06 06:31 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

the original neurophone was not digital. this is very new, i didnt even know about that.. but regardless of analog/digital, and where you stand, the technology of the neurophone is still groundbreaking.

DEAF people can hear with it. how is that poo?


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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5830703 - 07/07/06 06:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Because our ears buffer the sound waves coming in, we don't hear them as they should be. A form of control takes over and we hear the sound the way our ear tells us we should.

Note the symmetry - the wave is a form of control over the sound, just as your ear is.


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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: kotik]
    #5831327 - 07/07/06 12:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I just clicked the link and read the first page. In its first sentence it had bullshit, so I called bullshit. Maybe my spidey sense was thrown off by shitty advertisement.


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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5832108 - 07/07/06 03:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

What other senses could there be?




You would have fun googling Synethesia. There are people who have two senses blending at the same time. Yet, the second is unordinary. Sounds have colors they see, shapes have tastes they tastes, etc. It sounds like the world they live in is extra sensory rich and wonderful. Check out synethesia! :thumbup:

This is weird and related to ESP in general. I had an internet friend who over the internet, if in a group chat box like AIM, would often taste what someone was eating.  He would ask, "who here is eating chocolate cake? I taste chocolate cake" Someone would be eating whatever it was he said he started tasting. It was wierd.

I wish I understood what you are asking about being able to "hear" sound without your ears.  That's what sensitives and psychics do at ultra refined vibratory levels. On the denser levels, even we can feel bass sound waves like someone said and deaf people can dance to it and know when something drops on the floor behind them just off of feeling the immediate sound vibrations. Jack up that sensitivity and ability to focus your inner tuner dial and ??????????????:lol: 

Looking up what that word synethesia was ( I forgot it) I found that science is now close to inventing a device that will allow blind people with their visual imagery portion of the brain intact to see videos via sound waves. Imagine being able to watch pre recorded videos without your eyes via sound. Hard to comprehend how that works.

You might be interested in the work of Dr. Robert Monroe. He was experimenting with sound frequencies while in the REM dream state and people in different rooms would end up in the same dream place together when they listened to the same sound pitch while sleeping. Their stories of the group dream activity corroborated. The same tone could take anyone to a specific place. You could not only revisit the same place while dreaming but the same beings would often be there too.

His books are awesome.  He died, but the Monroe Institute continues on with the research.

Neat topic to explore. Nice Post idea and interesting thread!

:peace: :heart:


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