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OfflineSyle
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The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries.
    #5809568 - 07/01/06 12:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I am having a hard time putting this thought into words. I was thinking about this the other day. We have ears/ear drums that take in audio sound and relay it to our brain in a way that we can process it. Correct?

But, does the function of our ears buffer the sound coming in? Are sounds actually louder than we percieve them to be? And if that is so, how can we measure sound at all? Wouldn't it just be a relative measurement then?

I am confusing myself now...like I said, hard putting that into words. Let me know if anyone actually understands what I am saying :smile:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809602 - 07/01/06 12:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"Let me know if anyone actually understands what I am saying"

I sure don't.  :confused:


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5809662 - 07/01/06 12:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hmmm, okay. Image if sound were like time. Immeasureable (sp?).

Because our ears buffer the sound waves coming in, we don't hear them as they should be. A form of control takes over and we hear the sound the way our ear tells us we should.

But, what if we could hear without our ears and actually tap into the unaltered sound waves.

If that doesn't make sense...I give up  :wink:


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809669 - 07/01/06 12:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

All measurements are relative to the instrument doing the measuring.

They are just calibrated so that there is some consistency to measurements made by others.

A pebble to you is a boulder to an ant. All things observed are relative to the observer.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809678 - 07/01/06 12:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

what if we could hear without our ears and actually tap into the unaltered sound waves.

Huh? How else could we perceive sound?


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5809778 - 07/01/06 01:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
what if we could hear without our ears and actually tap into the unaltered sound waves.

Huh? How else could we perceive sound?




Well, we percieve sound through our ears. But just use your imagination and try to imagine hearing sound unaltered from our ears.


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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809855 - 07/01/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

OK, here is a little psychoacoustics and mechanics of sound 101.

The human hearing threshhold for audible sound is -1/4th decibels to 160 dB, or in other words, from when sound starts affecting your ear drum to damaging them.
I guess the first question you are asking is like the whole "do we all see the same blue" question, but maybe here is some info that can help you draw your own conclusion.

Most likely, you have never heard true silence in your entire life, at any point in time there are atleast 20 decibels of random noise..... just the window down, driving on the interstate is something like 60 decibels of noise.

Everything is vibration, which gives off sound in a sense, if we had the capability to perceive all sound, it would drive every person to suicide.

An Oscilloscope graphs electricity, which has the same properties as sound. So, basically, sound is just a certain form of energy propagated through a medium. Sound is created through the compression and rarefaction (decompression) of a medium, this is why one perfect note looks like a sine wave.
most sound starts off as nothing more than mechanical energy, which can also look just like a sine wave. The mechanical energy is then run through a transducer such as a speaker, where the ebb and flow of the sine wave of the mechanical energy runs across a magnet, which cause the magnet to push or pull away from a stable polarized object.... this magnet is connected to the speaker which makes it push in and out as well, which creates the compression and rarefaction of pressurized medium (the air).

So this speaker makes a sound wave, which is perceived by our ear drum which is just another transducer.... it changes sound waves into perceptual data, almost exactly like a microphone.


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5809904 - 07/01/06 02:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Okay, I totally get everything you are saying. Very cool stuff by the way.

So, in a sense, using the information you just gave us, we still aren't truly percieving sound in it's purest state, correct?


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809913 - 07/01/06 02:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Thats like saying, "try to percieve blue without your eyes."


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5809916 - 07/01/06 02:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Exactly. I am just trying to throw some abstract thought out there is all...


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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809919 - 07/01/06 02:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

There is no "purest state" of sound, or sight, or smell, or any of our other senses. These things do not exist independently of our ability to percieve them.


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Silversoul]
    #5809932 - 07/01/06 02:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

But, if a sense or something percieved through a gateway of our body, some of that sensory information is lost or altered so that we may percieve it, that is all I am saying.


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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809952 - 07/01/06 02:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It's not "lost" in our perception. It gains something when our brain processes it. There are people with brain damage whose eyes work as well as yours or mine, but who cannot recognize objects, because that part of their brain is damaged.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5809972 - 07/01/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

but that is true of everything pertaining to "reality". Our "reality" is merely a perceptual approximation of "true reality".

I don't think any sensory information is lost, unless you have damaged perception like nearsightedness or scarred ear drum. Audio studies have shown that 12 year old girls have the best possible human hearing.... there has to be some limit to our tangible perceptions lest we be bombarded with sensory overload: hearing the hundreds of sub and ultra harmonic frequencies that come with the tapping of a glass, hearing things like x-rays, radio waves break the sound barrier.... it would be deafening.... imagine hearing a whip crack constantly, that is what it would sound like if you could perceive the inaudible cracks of radio waves and x-rays breaking the speed of sound.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5810059 - 07/01/06 03:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

All right, take what you just said, but read it to yourself, as though you were on acid while you were reading it.

If you were on acid while you read that, you'd probably try to realize the concept of the sound of radio waves and x-rays breaking the speed of sound.. and you'd be all like.... holy shit, that's insane, true stuff to think about.

:shocked:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Silversoul]
    #5810090 - 07/01/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You can definitely get another perspective in regards to sonic interpretation.  Look at bass.  You can feel the waves in your body. 

Or what about light? Light is simply the same electromagnetic waves at a much higher frequency.  We see it with our eyes. Same energy, but an entirely different perception. Light becomes visible at a wavelength of approximately 750 nanometers (billionth of a meter) which is roughly 4x10^14 hertz (400 000 000 000 000 cycles per cecond, or 400 000 giga  hertz).  The average range of hearing is approiximately 20-20 000 hertz.  There is a lot there that we cannot sense, or do so at unconscious levels.  Basically, if you look at a piano, the standard tuning note is A=440 hertz.  so an "A" note 40 octaves up (440 x 2^40 [frequency doubles every octave] = 4.84x10^14 hertz) would be seen and not heard. Therfore the only boundary I can see, is the sensitivity of the individual sense organs, and there connection to and from certain neurological pathways. 

It seems to me, that the frequencies that we can pickup, are there for survivals sake, with combined hearing and seeing, it allows us to sense potential dangers, or other basic survival necessities such as flowing water, colorful food, attractive mates etc..., in every direction on a 3 dimensional plane.  I wonder what causes of environmental stress would be necessary to start an evolution of awareness of other frequencies? (Hmmm, i'm going to start another thread on this)

:heart: Peace :heart:

:hippie:


Edited by Quoiyaien (07/01/06 03:30 PM)


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Offline5taples
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5810640 - 07/01/06 07:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

That was interesting.. I guess it all comes down to perception

By the way, hey everyone, I'm new :smile:.


Edited by 5taples (07/01/06 07:23 PM)


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InvisibleSoY
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: 5taples]
    #5810963 - 07/01/06 09:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Has anyone not seen the Izthak Bentov video From Atoms to Cosmos?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5058672332658910022

This video has so many interesting ideas that are pretty consistent with my views. There is a section discussing sound, vibrations, energy, etc. that seems relevant to this thread.....

Everyone should watch this video. Ben was a genius......


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: Syle]
    #5815378 - 07/03/06 10:16 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think someone surely said that:
We only perceive what is necessary for us to interact with.
For a honey bee, a field of flowers looks totally different than we see it, because it sees also ultraviolet light.
For a dog, his universe is almost only built on smells. Why he can hear high pitched sound ? I don't know, perhaps they also emerge from animals digging underground, so he can find them ?
Some fishes can feel the electric charges of other muscles, so they can detect their bait if the bait moves.

Most senses are very specific and are built for us to identify our environment in the matter which it is relevant to us.

Amplification is necessary if one sense is specially important to survive for some animals, like for eagles to see in the distance, bats to hear their ultrasonic screams, for whales to receive sub-sonic sounds and so on and so on.

The information is there or is not. Amplification is only necessary in a subjective way for an organism to recognize.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineSyle
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Re: The concept of a "sound" has no boundaries. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5815813 - 07/03/06 12:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
I think someone surely said that:
We only perceive what is necessary for us to interact with.
For a honey bee, a field of flowers looks totally different than we see it, because it sees also ultraviolet light.
For a dog, his universe is almost only built on smells. Why he can hear high pitched sound ? I don't know, perhaps they also emerge from animals digging underground, so he can find them ?
Some fishes can feel the electric charges of other muscles, so they can detect their bait if the bait moves.

Most senses are very specific and are built for us to identify our environment in the matter which it is relevant to us.

Amplification is necessary if one sense is specially important to survive for some animals, like for eagles to see in the distance, bats to hear their ultrasonic screams, for whales to receive sub-sonic sounds and so on and so on.

The information is there or is not. Amplification is only necessary in a subjective way for an organism to recognize.




So, do you think our senses are regressing while our intelligence is progressing at an astounding rate? Because, humans are gradually becoming less and less dependent on our 5 senses to survive in the wild.


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