|
 TODAY
Battletoad
Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
|
 On human souls 
#5807416 - 06/30/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
When did homo sapien inherit his soul? Was it 100 thousand years ago exactly at 5:00pm or was it 74 thousand years ago at 8:51pm?
Is having a soul unique to human beings? I'm not familiar with other people's doctrines.
--------------------
ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.
|
dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
Re: On human souls [Re: TODAY]
#5807462 - 06/30/06 06:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
If you start at ground zero, taking nothing for granted and making no assumptions, as anyone who seriously is seeking the truth ought to, then you can find no evidence of a soul. Everything, including yourself, is impermanent.
However, if you start off with some religion or dogma, then you can come up with all sorts of wonderful and fantastical stories about SOMETHING that is permanent, some rock of ages.
And this is what happens to so many people: for whatever reason, they never truly question everything. They may start to, but then end up eventually relying on some external authority or something along those lines.
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
thatiAM
Stranger
Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1,250
|
Re: On human souls [Re: TODAY]
#5807466 - 06/30/06 06:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Not unique, soul is within all. It is just that we have the capacity for god realization. Soul is within trees, rocks and wind. It's not some thing with a boundary, flesh is just a manifestation of it. Soul experiences soul. Self-awareness isn't a prerequisite for soul, individual or absolute.
|
dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
Re: On human souls [Re: thatiAM]
#5807471 - 06/30/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I suppose we should start off by defining terms.
How do you define "soul"?
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
TODAY
Battletoad
Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
|
Re: On human souls [Re: dblaney]
#5807680 - 06/30/06 07:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I think when people define soul, they mean: the driving force of a material structure that is the cause of its defiance of external physical forces.
But even when we try that definition it stands that an anodized alluminum plate has soul because it can resist external forces. This is consistent with a universal lack of soul and that everything is material in nature. At least, this is what I understand from the proposed definition.
Dblaney, if you would like clarification I can try to provide it.
Edited by TODAY (06/30/06 08:00 PM)
|
SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
|
Re: On human souls [Re: TODAY]
#5807881 - 06/30/06 10:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I view the soul as conciousness itself. Everything that is concious, no matter what level (this would include cells and such), and therefore alive has the soul. I believe that whatever the force that drives the existance of life and conciousness is the soul.
--------------------
   
"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5807917 - 06/30/06 10:29 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Viewing the soul as anything is folly to me. For one thing it's existance and nature is not certain. How can one speculate with any surety on that which is merely an assumption? The only certain thing in this dream is death. Beyond that nothing is certain. The existance of the soul is irrelevant to our current condition. Worry about how you can act now...don't waste time worrying about the unknown.
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
|
|
Let me reword that. The phenomenon that is life/conciousness is what I term "the soul." What induces atoms and energy to combine in such a way that things actually come into life/conciousness? What causes the same materials that make up rocks and dirt and water to become alive? This is the force that I call the soul. It is in all living things alike. Nothing is seperate in the soul. Not the plants, animals, or anything else. We are all of the same source.
--------------------
"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
|
 Trepiodos
Disgustipated
Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 469
Loc: Los Angeles County Jail
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
|
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808026 - 06/30/06 11:11 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
In other words, the spiritual/physical separation that many perceive is a false dichotomy?
--------------------
And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...
- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
|
hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
|
I believe that souls are unique to humans. The proof of this is in our intelligence and capacity to learn. This cannot be solely attributed to our brains. Looking at our brain size, sperm whales have 5x our brain size. Even looking at something like a brain to body size ratio, we aren't at the top (hummingbird is, i believe). So it has to be some other part of us giving us this unique ability. My answer: a soul. This is a part of us but in another dimension (sometimes called the spiritual realm).
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808123 - 06/30/06 11:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
"The phenomenon that is life/conciousness is what I term "the soul.""
Then simply call it life/conciousness. On the material level it is merely a series of chemical reactions...fully explainable and eventually it will most likely be reproducable. The word soul assumes a common definition.
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808137 - 06/30/06 11:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
"I believe that souls are unique to humans. The proof of this is in our intelligence and capacity to learn. This cannot be solely attributed to our brains."
Using scientific terms to explain and describe that which is only an assumption creates a huge gap in logic. For you to be correct would assume you have knowledge that no other human is in possession of. Believe only that which you have experienced and know for certain. This cuts away layers of pettiness and keeps us focused on that which is important..
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
|
|
is proof the term you refer to?
--------------------
"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
|
hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
|
"Using scientific terms to explain and describe that which is only an assumption creates a huge gap in logic. For you to be correct would assume you have knowledge that no other human is in possession of. Believe only that which you have experienced and know for certain. This cuts away layers of pettiness and keeps us focused on that which is important.."
I would say I am not assuming anything. I don't claim at all to have knowledge that no other humans have. I was simply presenting a logical argument that shows there is something unique about humans. Something like a soul.
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808167 - 06/30/06 11:54 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I am making reference to such a concept. Even personal experience is valid for the individual, but considering assumptions is merely a form of masturbation for the mind.
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
|
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808174 - 06/30/06 11:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
You are correct. I should use "life/conciousness" instead of "soul."
Either way, we are connected. 
--------------------
"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808192 - 07/01/06 12:00 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
"I was simply presenting a logical argument that shows there is something unique about humans. Something like a soul."
No argument based on an assumed quality of a mystical nature is logical. You are engaging in pure speculation with no basis in fact.
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
|
Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
"I was simply presenting a logical argument that shows there is something unique about humans. Something like a soul."
No argument based on an assumed quality of a mystical nature is logical. You are engaging in pure speculation with no basis in fact.
Yes, speculation based on logic though. Black holes have never been experienced yet we can logically assume they exist. I was using this same kind of logic to say that souls could exist.
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808218 - 07/01/06 12:06 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Speculation can only be logical if it is based on known values. Black holes are based on known values and phenomenon. No value exists that suggests the existance of a human soul.
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
|
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808226 - 07/01/06 12:09 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Fact is stranger than fiction man
everyday this is enforced for me
--------------------
"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
|
Logic must be a razor blade to find truth...not an obstruction to it.
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
|
Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Speculation can only be logical if it is based on known values. Black holes are based on known values and phenomenon. No value exists that suggests the existence of a human soul.
Going back to my original post, I did use facts. Facts that can be backed up.
FACT: Humans have unique intellectual abilities in the animal world
FACT: Human brain weight and size isn't unique in the animal world
LOGICAL CONCLUSION: Our brain isn't the reason we are intellectually superior
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808260 - 07/01/06 12:16 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Your conclusion is not valid. All animals have unique intellectual abilities...just not the abilities we have. Also, there are many more physical factors to consider than brain weight and size when evaluating the human brain. Take a philosophy 101 course (introductory logic) and then we'll talk.
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
|
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
|
|
There are too many unkown variables, of which a soul could be one. 
--------------------
"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
|
Yes, there are, but a variable would have to be measurable to be considered a factor.
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
|
Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Your conclusion is not valid. All animals have unique intellectual abilities...just not the abilities we have. Also, there are many more physical factors to consider than brain weight and size when evaluating the human brain. Take a philosophy 101 course (introductory logic) and then we'll talk.
Please expand. What unique intellectual abilities do animals have that we don't? Also, what other physical factors of the brain do you mean?
P.S. did take phil 101
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
|
My whole point is that it is more productive focusing on something that has practical value than something that does not.
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
|
Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
My whole point is that it is more productive focusing on something that has practical value than something that does not.
And you believe that our souls have no practical value?
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808293 - 07/01/06 12:24 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Did you learn deductive logic...I think that you missed that one or you would not be beating your dead horse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808299 - 07/01/06 12:25 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
"And you believe that our souls have no practical value? "
Not if it cannot be measured as a variable in our lives.
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
|
|
how can we ever discover that which lies in the metaphysical realm if we always only study the measurable quantities of our physical reality?
--------------------
"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
|
hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
|
Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
"And you believe that our souls have no practical value? "
Not if it cannot be measured as a variable in our lives.
I guess this is where you and I will have to agree to disagree...
|
dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808452 - 07/01/06 01:00 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SoY said:
how can we ever discover that which lies in the metaphysical realm if we always only study the measurable quantities of our physical reality?
Tell me about this metaphysical realm. How do you know it exists? What is it? etc etc.
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
|
Re: On human souls [Re: dblaney]
#5808471 - 07/01/06 01:06 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
experience 
--------------------
"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
|
SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
|
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808474 - 07/01/06 01:06 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
difficult to describe
--------------------
"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
|
hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808485 - 07/01/06 01:09 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
There are many people who claim to see into alternate realms. (even interact with them) I do happen to believe some of these experiences are true. But proof? None yet...
|
dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808490 - 07/01/06 01:10 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SoY said:
experience
Go on...
Personal experience CAN be good evidence. However, IMO, it would have to be abundantly clear that the experience wasn't an illusion/delusion. Which means that it would have to be replicable, can't have been some tripped out hallucination, and otherwise must be substantiatable.
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
|
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808491 - 07/01/06 01:10 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
One time me a two friends tripped together. On the come up the dog tried to hump me, so that put us (me and the dog) on uneasy terms. Anyway, once it hit, we went into a completely dark room. The damn dog had to come with us 'cause otherwise he would sit outside the door whining. As soon as we closed the door my friends each took a different corner of the room. I headed toward my corner, but something kept weaving around my feet and legs. I thought it was the dog so I kept moving trying to juke him. After about thirty seconds or so I looked over and saw that the dog was laying down by the door, (and had been the entire time), yet there was still this thing slithering around my ankles. I didn't say anything to my friends and just sat down. After the trip we were reflecting and then one of my friends mentioned that as soon as we went into the dark room, there was a snake winding around my feet. Then my other friend got all excited and said that he saw the same thing. I didn't see a snake clearly because I was looking forward trying not to bump into the wall as I tried to rid myself of this thing that was slithering around me. There was definately something there on some plane of reality that night.... 
--------------------
"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
|
hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
Re: On human souls [Re: dblaney]
#5808511 - 07/01/06 01:14 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
dblaney said:
Quote:
SoY said:
experience
Go on...
Personal experience CAN be good evidence. However, IMO, it would have to be abundantly clear that the experience wasn't an illusion/delusion. Which means that it would have to be replicable, can't have been some tripped out hallucination, and otherwise must be substantiatable.
Even if somebody claims to have consistant personal experiences, how could it be become persuasive? Would it have to be a controlled experiment? A very interesting thought.
|
dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808522 - 07/01/06 01:16 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
That is cool, but it could have been a mass hallucination. Our consciousness is connected on many subtle levels, and it's possible that one of you hallucinated a serpent so the others hallucinated it too. I have heard of this happening before, though it is rare.
It is not, IMO, definitive proof of any other dimension of existence. However, it could be good evidence for one. I don't claim any knowledge of other dimensions, but I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that there are other dimensions of existence. Still, despite any other dimensions which we can access with certain chemicals, that is not evidence in the least of any permanent self.
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
|
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808523 - 07/01/06 01:17 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I have had experiences while stone sober as well.
--------------------
"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
|
SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
|
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808531 - 07/01/06 01:18 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Psychic linkage is possible too. Every day I am amazed at all the crazy stuff that until a while ago I would have thought was nonsense, but is in fact reality. 
--------------------
"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
|
SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
|
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808537 - 07/01/06 01:20 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
and it's possible that one of you hallucinated a serpent so the others hallucinated it too.
very possible, but I have had too many other experiences to brush it off that easily.....
--------------------
"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
|
hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
 Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808540 - 07/01/06 01:20 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SoY said:
I have had experiences while stone sober as well.
Could be craziness  Just kidding...
|
SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
|
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808557 - 07/01/06 01:25 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
That's what the pledians keep telling me...... 
--------------------
"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808637 - 07/01/06 01:42 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
hamarrboo said:
Also, what other physical factors of the brain do you mean?
You assert that, as some animals have larger brains than humans, but do not appear to be more intelligent than human beings, then intelligence does not arise from the brain.
Yet, an understanding of the brain will provide you with the intelligence that brain size is not very much relevant in terms of how advanced the brain is.
Quote:
Wikipedia said:
The structure of the human brain differs from that of other animals in several important ways. These differences allow for many abilities over and above those of other animals, such as advanced cognitive skills. Human encephalization is especially pronounced in the neocortex, the most complex part of the cerebral cortex. The proportion of the human brain that is devoted to the neocortex—especially to the prefrontal cortex—is larger than in all other animals.
You propose that the "soul" is responsible for "this unique ability", but yet such a proposal is entirely baseless. You declare that it, quite simply, is not the result of the brain, but yet you demonstrate that you were not aware of basic concepts of the nature of the brain.
You claim that you were presenting a logical arguement, but yet it is based on an extremely faulty premise and a lack of understanding. It remains pure speculation, uninformed speculation at that, and it is does not reflect reality as we can directly perceive it.
If your perspective on matters that can be observed, tested, and applied are entirely wrong, then why should we, even for one second, brazenly assume that your speculation pertaining to a concept that has no substance is the reality of the manner? 
I'd suggest searching for Shroomydan's post on logic. "God is omnipotent, I am omnipotent, therefore, I am God" conforms to logic, but it is entirely senseless. Your proposal might be "logical", but that does not mean that the premise is accurate, or that your conclusion represents reality in the slightest. I strongly suggest quieting the mind and engaging in some reflective observation before making with the unsubstantiated baselessness. 
   
Peace.
--------------------
 
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
 
|
hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
|
My arguement has fallen to shambles around me  By the way, fireworks_god, I appreciate you actually pointing out my fallacies instead of directing me to articles on logic. Hopefully my future posts won't be so easy to defeat...
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808717 - 07/01/06 02:00 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
hamarrboo said:
Hopefully my future posts won't be so easy to defeat...
Keen advice: One can construct grand, complex architecture the likes of which the universe has never seen, but if it is not formed upon a proper foundation, it will be at fault and will eventually topple over.
There is but one foundation upon which true understanding can be sustained, and that is reality, as it can be directly perceived. Remove obstructions in one's mind that prevent awareness from centering within your direct perceptions and experience, and that foundation will rise.
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
|
hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
|
I grow and learn.
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808744 - 07/01/06 02:07 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Grow in such a manner that does not inhibit one's growth.
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5809322 - 07/01/06 10:24 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
"By the way, fireworks_god, I appreciate you actually pointing out my fallacies instead of directing me to articles on logic."
Fireworks God is kind. I am not. He will take the time to help you grow...I am impersonal. I got tired of typing long explanations a while ago. I really just quit giving a shit about making others share my belief...so I am more blunt. I will state my view but to extend myself overmuch to defend my point is no longer within my desires. People are all entitled to their own bullshit...right or wrong.
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
|
|
--------------------
"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Red Vein Kratom 
Bulk Substrate 
Bulk Cannabis Seeds 
Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order
Edit 
Reply 
1 2 all )
mrfreedom
Meph
Murex
quemo
Shroomalicious
minusrestraint
Amber_Glow