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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Logic must be a razor blade to find truth...not an obstruction to it.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: Speculation can only be logical if it is based on known values. Black holes are based on known values and phenomenon. No value exists that suggests the existence of a human soul.
Going back to my original post, I did use facts. Facts that can be backed up.
FACT: Humans have unique intellectual abilities in the animal world FACT: Human brain weight and size isn't unique in the animal world LOGICAL CONCLUSION: Our brain isn't the reason we are intellectually superior
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808260 - 07/01/06 12:16 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Your conclusion is not valid. All animals have unique intellectual abilities...just not the abilities we have. Also, there are many more physical factors to consider than brain weight and size when evaluating the human brain. Take a philosophy 101 course (introductory logic) and then we'll talk.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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There are too many unkown variables, of which a soul could be one.
-------------------- "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Yes, there are, but a variable would have to be measurable to be considered a factor.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: Your conclusion is not valid. All animals have unique intellectual abilities...just not the abilities we have. Also, there are many more physical factors to consider than brain weight and size when evaluating the human brain. Take a philosophy 101 course (introductory logic) and then we'll talk.
Please expand. What unique intellectual abilities do animals have that we don't? Also, what other physical factors of the brain do you mean?
P.S. did take phil 101
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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My whole point is that it is more productive focusing on something that has practical value than something that does not.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: My whole point is that it is more productive focusing on something that has practical value than something that does not.
And you believe that our souls have no practical value?
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808293 - 07/01/06 12:24 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Did you learn deductive logic...I think that you missed that one or you would not be beating your dead horse. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808299 - 07/01/06 12:25 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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"And you believe that our souls have no practical value? "
Not if it cannot be measured as a variable in our lives.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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how can we ever discover that which lies in the metaphysical realm if we always only study the measurable quantities of our physical reality?
-------------------- "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: "And you believe that our souls have no practical value? "
Not if it cannot be measured as a variable in our lives.
I guess this is where you and I will have to agree to disagree...
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808452 - 07/01/06 01:00 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SoY said: how can we ever discover that which lies in the metaphysical realm if we always only study the measurable quantities of our physical reality?
Tell me about this metaphysical realm. How do you know it exists? What is it? etc etc.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: On human souls [Re: dblaney]
#5808471 - 07/01/06 01:06 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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experience
-------------------- "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808474 - 07/01/06 01:06 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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difficult to describe
-------------------- "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
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Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808485 - 07/01/06 01:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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There are many people who claim to see into alternate realms. (even interact with them) I do happen to believe some of these experiences are true. But proof? None yet...
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
#5808490 - 07/01/06 01:10 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SoY said: experience
Go on...
Personal experience CAN be good evidence. However, IMO, it would have to be abundantly clear that the experience wasn't an illusion/delusion. Which means that it would have to be replicable, can't have been some tripped out hallucination, and otherwise must be substantiatable.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
#5808491 - 07/01/06 01:10 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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One time me a two friends tripped together. On the come up the dog tried to hump me, so that put us (me and the dog) on uneasy terms. Anyway, once it hit, we went into a completely dark room. The damn dog had to come with us 'cause otherwise he would sit outside the door whining. As soon as we closed the door my friends each took a different corner of the room. I headed toward my corner, but something kept weaving around my feet and legs. I thought it was the dog so I kept moving trying to juke him. After about thirty seconds or so I looked over and saw that the dog was laying down by the door, (and had been the entire time), yet there was still this thing slithering around my ankles. I didn't say anything to my friends and just sat down. After the trip we were reflecting and then one of my friends mentioned that as soon as we went into the dark room, there was a snake winding around my feet. Then my other friend got all excited and said that he saw the same thing. I didn't see a snake clearly because I was looking forward trying not to bump into the wall as I tried to rid myself of this thing that was slithering around me. There was definately something there on some plane of reality that night....
-------------------- "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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hamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
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Re: On human souls [Re: dblaney]
#5808511 - 07/01/06 01:14 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said:
Quote:
SoY said: experience
Go on...
Personal experience CAN be good evidence. However, IMO, it would have to be abundantly clear that the experience wasn't an illusion/delusion. Which means that it would have to be replicable, can't have been some tripped out hallucination, and otherwise must be substantiatable.
Even if somebody claims to have consistant personal experiences, how could it be become persuasive? Would it have to be a controlled experiment? A very interesting thought.
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