Home | Community | Message Board


ElevationChemicals.com - Reagent Test Kits
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
On human souls
    #5807416 - 06/30/06 08:00 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

When did homo sapien inherit his soul? Was it 100 thousand years ago exactly at 5:00pm or was it 74 thousand years ago at 8:51pm?

Is having a soul unique to human beings? I'm not familiar with other people's doctrines.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: On human souls [Re: TODAY]
    #5807462 - 06/30/06 08:19 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

If you start at ground zero, taking nothing for granted and making no assumptions, as anyone who seriously is seeking the truth ought to, then you can find no evidence of a soul. Everything, including yourself, is impermanent.

However, if you start off with some religion or dogma, then you can come up with all sorts of wonderful and fantastical stories about SOMETHING that is permanent, some rock of ages.

And this is what happens to so many people: for whatever reason, they never truly question everything. They may start to, but then end up eventually relying on some external authority or something along those lines.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblethatiAM
Stranger

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1,250
Re: On human souls [Re: TODAY]
    #5807466 - 06/30/06 08:19 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Not unique, soul is within all. It is just that we have the capacity for god realization. Soul is within trees, rocks and wind. It's not some thing with a boundary, flesh is just a manifestation of it. Soul experiences soul. Self-awareness isn't a prerequisite for soul, individual or absolute.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: On human souls [Re: thatiAM]
    #5807471 - 06/30/06 08:21 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I suppose we should start off by defining terms.

How do you define "soul"?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: On human souls [Re: dblaney]
    #5807680 - 06/30/06 09:56 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I think when people define soul, they mean: the driving force of a material structure that is the cause of its defiance of external physical forces.

But even when we try that definition it stands that an anodized alluminum plate has soul because it can resist external forces. This is consistent with a universal lack of soul and that everything is material in nature. At least, this is what I understand from the proposed definition.

Dblaney, if you would like clarification I can try to provide it.


Edited by TODAY (06/30/06 10:00 PM)


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSoY
I am the LizardKing
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
Re: On human souls [Re: TODAY]
    #5807881 - 07/01/06 12:06 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I view the soul as conciousness itself. Everything that is concious, no matter what level (this would include cells and such), and therefore alive has the soul. I believe that whatever the force that drives the existance of life and conciousness is the soul.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,662
Loc: On the Border
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
    #5807917 - 07/01/06 12:29 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Viewing the soul as anything is folly to me. For one thing it's existance and nature is not certain. How can one speculate with any surety on that which is merely an assumption? The only certain thing in this dream is death. Beyond that nothing is certain. The existance of the soul is irrelevant to our current condition. Worry about how you can act now...don't waste time worrying about the unknown.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSoY
I am the LizardKing
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
Re: On human souls [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5807984 - 07/01/06 12:57 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Let me reword that.  The phenomenon that is life/conciousness is what I term "the soul."  What induces atoms and energy to combine in such a way that things actually come into life/conciousness?  What causes the same materials that make up rocks and dirt and water to become alive?  This is the force that I call the soul.  It is in all living things alike.  Nothing is seperate in the soul.  Not the plants, animals, or anything else.  We are all of the same source.


:levitate:


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTrepiodos
Disgustipated
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 469
Loc: Los Angeles County Jail
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
    #5808026 - 07/01/06 01:11 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

In other words, the spiritual/physical separation that many perceive is a false dichotomy?


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Male

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: On human souls [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5808042 - 07/01/06 01:14 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I believe that souls are unique to humans. The proof of this is in our intelligence and capacity to learn. This cannot be solely attributed to our brains. Looking at our brain size, sperm whales have 5x our brain size. Even looking at something like a brain to body size ratio, we aren't at the top (hummingbird is, i believe). So it has to be some other part of us giving us this unique ability. My answer: a soul. This is a part of us but in another dimension (sometimes called the spiritual realm).


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,662
Loc: On the Border
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
    #5808123 - 07/01/06 01:44 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

"The phenomenon that is life/conciousness is what I term "the soul.""

Then simply call it life/conciousness. On the material level it is merely a series of chemical reactions...fully explainable and eventually it will most likely be reproducable. The word soul assumes a common definition.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,662
Loc: On the Border
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
    #5808137 - 07/01/06 01:47 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

"I believe that souls are unique to humans. The proof of this is in our intelligence and capacity to learn. This cannot be solely attributed to our brains."

Using scientific terms to explain and describe that which is only an assumption creates a huge gap in logic. For you to be correct would assume you have knowledge that no other human is in possession of. Believe only that which you have experienced and know for certain. This cuts away layers of pettiness and keeps us focused on that which is important..


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSoY
I am the LizardKing
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
Re: On human souls [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5808152 - 07/01/06 01:50 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

is proof the term you refer to?


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Male

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: On human souls [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5808161 - 07/01/06 01:53 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

"Using scientific terms to explain and describe that which is only an assumption creates a huge gap in logic. For you to be correct would assume you have knowledge that no other human is in possession of. Believe only that which you have experienced and know for certain. This cuts away layers of pettiness and keeps us focused on that which is important.."

I would say I am not assuming anything. I don't claim at all to have knowledge that no other humans have. I was simply presenting a logical argument that shows there is something unique about humans. Something like a soul.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,662
Loc: On the Border
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
    #5808167 - 07/01/06 01:54 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I am making reference to such a concept. Even personal experience is valid for the individual, but considering assumptions is merely a form of masturbation for the mind.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSoY
I am the LizardKing
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
Re: On human souls [Re: SoY]
    #5808174 - 07/01/06 01:56 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

You are correct.  I should use "life/conciousness" instead of "soul."
Either way, we are connected. :yinyang:


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,662
Loc: On the Border
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
    #5808192 - 07/01/06 02:00 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

"I was simply presenting a logical argument that shows there is something unique about humans. Something like a soul."

No argument based on an assumed quality of a mystical nature is logical. You are engaging in pure speculation with no basis in fact.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehamarrboo
Warrior Priest
Male

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: On human souls [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5808214 - 07/01/06 02:04 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"I was simply presenting a logical argument that shows there is something unique about humans. Something like a soul."

No argument based on an assumed quality of a mystical nature is logical. You are engaging in pure speculation with no basis in fact.




Yes, speculation based on logic though. Black holes have never been experienced yet we can logically assume they exist. I was using this same kind of logic to say that souls could exist.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,662
Loc: On the Border
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
    #5808218 - 07/01/06 02:06 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Speculation can only be logical if it is based on known values. Black holes are based on known values and phenomenon. No value exists that suggests the existance of a human soul.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSoY
I am the LizardKing
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
Re: On human souls [Re: hamarrboo]
    #5808226 - 07/01/06 02:09 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Fact is stranger than fiction man

everyday this is enforced for me


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Do Basic Human Morals Exist
( 1 2 all )
mrfreedom 4,719 24 05/28/02 09:55 AM
by Sclorch
* Humans and laws
( 1 2 3 all )
Meph 2,938 55 04/27/03 01:39 PM
by Meph
* Animals with Souls?
( 1 2 3 all )
Murex 2,553 41 12/10/02 10:49 PM
by GoBlue!
* first human cloned
( 1 2 all )
quemo 2,177 24 12/28/02 08:18 PM
by ribbit
* We are spiritual beings having a human experience
( 1 2 3 4 all )
ShroomismM
8,027 75 10/03/17 02:10 PM
by Apples in Mono
* Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from...
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Shroomalicious 8,224 69 12/18/02 08:30 PM
by Strumpling
* soul mates? minusrestraint 1,541 14 07/07/03 02:05 PM
by crazycanadian
* Is it your soul mate if she cheated on you?
( 1 2 all )
Amber_Glow 2,935 39 04/20/03 06:22 PM
by Anonymous

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
2,239 topic views. 1 members, 2 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
Sporeworks
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.036 seconds spending 0.011 seconds on 18 queries.