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Pr0_X
CultivationLifer


Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 617
Loc: Igloo's and polar bears
Last seen: 16 years, 1 day
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Rye Simmer Yes or No?
#5797036 - 06/27/06 07:46 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hey, Ive been trying my luck with rye lately and I'm pretty disapointed with the results, nothing seems to colonize and when it does I loose it to bacteria. No trich, no cobweb nothing but bacteria contams....
My question is this, is it possible that the rye is just soaking back in bacteria endospores during simmering? I use the same pot as we use to cook soup/stew/noodles and the what not in.... Is it possible that the rye is soaking up endospores or that endospores are just covering the rye during this time?
I know that pc'ing should kill them but what if they get loaded in it?
So, What do you guys do? soak and simmer or just soak and PC?
-------------------- It's okay to hurt my feelings cause you know, they're so numb anyway. but I guess it's what I get for being to fuckin stupid to stay away - Jake - Support the FSR at www.fsrcanada.com and www.fsre.nl
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mikeownow
Humungus fungus

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 2,856
Loc: WA,USA
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: Pr0_X]
#5797044 - 06/27/06 07:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I soak for 24 hours. Then I rinse them. Then I simmer for 5-15 minutes.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 6,252
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: Pr0_X]
#5797123 - 06/27/06 08:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Remember, Soaking is not just to get the water content right but also to let endospores germinate so PC'ing will kill the tuff ones.
If the bacteria is wet spot? I don't think soaking and simmering is you problem. I would think it is water content. To much.
I also had this problem with rye and wbs.
The solution is adding 1/2 to 1 cup verm to each qt jar. This will help in seed drying time, water content at pc'ing time and add water back into the substrate. It will also help stop wet spot while myc is colonizing.
GL
-------------------- Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: KaptKid]
#5797134 - 06/27/06 08:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
KaptKid said: If the bacteria is wet spot?
I cannot emphasize enough the use of gypsum for grains, it helps to stave off wetspot/baccilus
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 6,252
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5797152 - 06/27/06 08:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
KaptKid said: If the bacteria is wet spot?
I cannot emphasize enough the use of gypsum for grains, it helps to stave off wetspot/baccilus
How much gypsum per qt jar?
-------------------- Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: KaptKid]
#5797160 - 06/27/06 08:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I usualy do a teaspoon per pound of dry grain in with the soak water
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coda
Banjo Goiter


Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 8,750
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5797182 - 06/27/06 08:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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if you're using rye bought from a feed store make sure it's not treated with a fungicide.
-------------------- To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . . -JG i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug* -A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)
 Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 6,252
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5797187 - 06/27/06 08:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Cool. I will give this a try next time around.
-------------------- Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.
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Pr0_X
CultivationLifer


Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 617
Loc: Igloo's and polar bears
Last seen: 16 years, 1 day
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: KaptKid]
#5797229 - 06/27/06 08:43 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nope, It's not treated with a fungicide it has myc growth but usaully ends up with a bacteria contam.
-------------------- It's okay to hurt my feelings cause you know, they're so numb anyway. but I guess it's what I get for being to fuckin stupid to stay away - Jake - Support the FSR at www.fsrcanada.com and www.fsre.nl
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: coda]
#5797242 - 06/27/06 08:50 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
coda said: if you're using rye bought from a feed store make sure it's not treated with a fungicide.
I've never had the problem, most feed/seed manufacturers dont spend the extra and leave it to the retailer to keep the product dry once it leaves their shipping area
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5798063 - 06/28/06 12:48 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm pretty sure they'd have to label it clearly if they used fungicide. That would suck if someone ate a meal of it and died.
Don't simmer! It's not required and can only cause problems. 24hr soak, drain well, load in jars, then PC. People just can't resist overcomplicating things.
-FF
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frommoon
Stranger
Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 45
Loc: Plutos Third
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5798101 - 06/28/06 01:01 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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where do we get the gypsum
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: frommoon]
#5798158 - 06/28/06 01:26 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Garden section or just grind up some sheetrock (drywall).
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frommoon
Stranger
Registered: 06/18/06
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Loc: Plutos Third
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: Pr0_X]
#5798220 - 06/28/06 02:06 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have been using a lot a rye grain lately. I do the whole soak and simmer thing but have not used gypsum yet. that might help so I will try it soon. My gut feeling now though stems from one of the other contributers to this thread. I think its time to try the whole thing without the simmering. fastfred was so right in saying that over complication is rampant. I know that I am guilty of that in life and other projects. Its time to try not simmering after the soak and rinse. Maybe you can try this too. I love to be able to eliminate extra steps that are useless. This simmering may be one of the useless steps. Jury is still out but it is time to try it.
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Hoss
Stranger


Registered: 06/13/05
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: fastfred]
#5798282 - 06/28/06 02:47 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: Don't simmer! It's not required and can only cause problems. 24hr soak, drain well, load in jars, then PC. People just can't resist overcomplicating things. -FF
What kind of rye are you using? Some super-absorbant, naturally high water-content variety?
Simmering your rye (Unless you are adding water to your jars before PC) is absolutely needed! The simmering process forces water into the grain and brings it to maximum water capacity.
Without it, your grain will simply be far too dry.
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ccdove
2 card monte.
Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 68
Loc: Third stone from the sun....
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: Hoss]
#5798376 - 06/28/06 03:55 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hey guys, no "gypsum" around me, is there something else I can add? ccdove..
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: ccdove]
#5798410 - 06/28/06 04:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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> What kind of rye are you using? Some super-absorbant, naturally high water-content variety?
Nope. Regular health-food store rye berries.
> Simmering your rye (Unless you are adding water to your jars before PC) is absolutely needed!
Nope, it's not. 24-48 hr soak, drain, load, PC. Works like a charm. In fact, if you don't drain your rye really well you can have it too wet. If you want high water content then soak for 48 hrs, but you need to refrigerate it if you're going to soak that long. Otherwise it will sprout and/or start to rot.
> Without it, your grain will simply be far too dry.
Not IME. You want the rye to be "shakable". If it's too wet it will be mushy and compact and won't shake well and you'll have problems colonizing.
> Hey guys, no "gypsum" around me, is there something else I can add?
Just punch a hole in the wall next to you. LOL Otherwise you can use oyster flour (ground oyster shell). Some people also recommend lime. Hyphae will have some tips for you when he reads this, or just search his posts.
> Its time to try not simmering after the soak and rinse.
You don't need to rinse either. Just soak 24-48 hrs, drain well, load, and PC. I'm not claiming my method is the absolute best be all and end all method, as I haven't done any side-by-side comparisons. But it's simple and works very well. Hundreds of colonized jars can't be wrong. I haven't grown in several years, but back in the day simple = better. Maybe those fancy multi-step methods have some advantage, but it used to be that if you wanted more moisture content you just soaked it a little longer. I never rinsed either. The rye juice is full of nutes and should help. Of course, I don't see any problem with rinsing, but why waste that goodness. Lots of people use hpoo water, pond water, and all kinds of things to add nutes, so why wash them down the drain if you can help it?
One thing to keep in mind is that more moisture IS better in the long run and for yields. So ideally you want as much moisture as you can get while still leaving the rye shakable and not gummy or overly soft.
-FF
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
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Re: Rye Simmer Yes or No? [Re: fastfred]
#5798830 - 06/28/06 10:03 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I would never consider loading rye jars without the simmer. To each his own I guess. Ditto for the rinse. To fail to rinse is only asking for trouble later due to sticky grains that are hard to break apart. Being lazy will not get one far in this hobby. Rinse the dry grains well until the water you pour off is clear. Then soak for 24 hours or so, then boil for five minutes. Drain in to a collander will still boiling and allow to drain for a few minutes, then shake the grains around in the collander so all surface moisture can evaporate off. When the grains appear dry on the surface, load your jars and PC.
I use a tablespoon of gypsum for each two gallons of soak water. If you are adding gypsum to the jars after loading, use a pinch between your thumb and forefinger for each jar. If you can't find gypsum at a nursery, just buy a sheet of drywall and break it up to get the gypsum out from between the sheets of paper. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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