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CureCat
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P. semilanceata in summer...(???)
#5794452 - 06/26/06 11:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yup, we got about 5 min of drizzle the other day (thats the only rain we've had in weeks ::sob::), and I decided to check my favourite grassy area, and see if anything had sprung up. I was disappointed and ready to leave, when i noticed just two little caps. And to my luck, they were libs! I spent a few more minutes scouring the grass and collected a couple more liberty caps and a few subbs. Left a couple pins behind, hoping for more rain. First time hunting in weeks, in part because of the weather, and also because I am moving to a new house and just don't have any time really. If I seem absent from the board, that is why. Anyway, this is the only place I have found any Psilocybe semilanceata, and it's rather strange I have found any at all, seeing as they are a fall mushroom. Oh weeell, these ones are early, and I'm not complaining. Here are some sucky camera pics.
a meek collection of subbs.
And a few liberty caps
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rastausty
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#5794479 - 06/26/06 11:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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very nice indeed
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Zen Peddler
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) *DELETED* [Re: CureCat]
#5794818 - 06/27/06 02:39 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Post deleted by bluemeanieReason for deletion: nk
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CureCat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Zen Peddler]
#5794887 - 06/27/06 03:52 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I would but they don't print! I've tried- see, look how the caps are all folded near the stipe... I tried "butterflying" a couple of the caps and laying them down to print last time I found some, and I got nothing. Basically, cross sectioned the caps with a little unsevered material at the tip of the cap and layed the cap gills down on paper. There was one little tiny cap that wasn't completely folded, so i am trying to print that one, but last time i checked, nothing was on the paper. If you'd like, I can send you a piece of dried tissue, and you can try and clone? Only issue is that they are not in a contam free environment, so it might be tricky. Lemme know.
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The_Appalachain
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#5794972 - 06/27/06 06:04 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thats wild stuff! Not to second guess you or anything but how are you sure that those are semilanceata? They look like my idea of what semilanceata would look like but I'm just not so sure due to lack of personal experience with them. What is the defining characteristic that makes one say "aha! Semilanceata!" ?
-------------------- I'm floating in a most peculiar way... and the stars look very different today --David Bowie
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Mead
Registered: 07/26/02
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) *DELETED* [Re: The_Appalachain]
#5795037 - 06/27/06 07:20 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Mead
Reason for deletion: .
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Mitchnast
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Mead]
#5795048 - 06/27/06 07:27 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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does it have a separable pellicle? i can tell you they definately arent semis. if they bruise blue, they are probably baeos, if not, then who knows withought a print?
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shroominDole
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Mitchnast]
#5796493 - 06/27/06 05:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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No seperable pellicle, not transluscent straite, basically dry maybe slightly viscid when moist at best, def not LIBs as mentioned.....these have typically been one of our most commonly encountered shrooms when finding Panaeolus subbalteatus in lawns in this area along side Panaeolina foenisecii, Conocybe, and various other black spored Panaeolus......and like SUBBs they grow in all types of lawns in parks, schools, buisiness, yards, etc.......and like SUBBs not just well kept, well fed healthy lawns or fairly recent sod but poor older established and unkept as long as they're green.....there have been along with Meade others posting these recently while finding lawn dwelling SUBBs and its good to see these also occur elsewhere in the U.S. especially the east as this is one I've always really wanted to look into further into this shroom a few years back and never did......Ive always just considered it definately a different type of mushroom probably very close to the Panaeolus papillionaceus - campanulatus - sphinctrinus complex as it is sometimes with an appendiculate margin which collapses toward the stem two characteristic hallmarks so common to different forms of the group...
This ones always been intriguing. .....Im sure tons of these have been sent to Guzman and Stamets over the years...
-------------------- Worlds Largest 'Liberty Cap' (Cali Libs Confirmed !) ' Comments On Hallucinogenic Agarics And The Hallucinations Of Those Who Study Them ' Alexander H. Smith Mycologia vol.69 1977
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Workman
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Mead]
#5797399 - 06/27/06 09:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I suspect the ones I was working with are active but not in the Genus Psilocybe. I need to go back and do some more work on those since they were cultivatable.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4656425#Post4656425
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification
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Feanor
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
#5797496 - 06/27/06 10:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nice find!
-------------------- May Terence McKenna Live Long The DMT Chronicles
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CureCat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Feanor]
#5798397 - 06/28/06 04:16 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wow, this is very interesting news. They are definitely not Psilocybe baeocystis. The cap of P. baeocystis flattens much more in maturity, whereas these suckers do not. I have not noted any bluing either. I checked out those links from both Mead and Workman- those look like what I have found. I browsed around and found two other links to previous bulletins depicting the same mushrooms. It seems I am not the first to misidentify... So, first of all, what are the distinguishing characteristics that set these "balloon shrooms" apart from "liberty caps"? The first time I was out hunting and came across these mushrooms, I thought they were some type of inactive Panaeolus species, but after some searching I figured they had to be P. semilanceata because I could find no other mushroom that looked even remotely similar to my finds.
There seem to be two phenotypes- one that is more "balloon-ish"and round, and the other that has a larger and longer cap that is more of an egg shape. Did you notice any other distinctions between these two "types" when cultivating?? Workman, why do you suspect these thus unidentified mushrooms are active??
You all have been a wealth of information, thank you very much!
Oh, and here are some pics of P. semilanceata that led me to misidentification of my find. Do you think any of these are actually "Balloons" and not semi's?
Even your lib, Workman, is deceptively similar to the "balloons"-
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Mead
Registered: 07/26/02
Posts: 2,519
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) *DELETED* [Re: Workman]
#5799686 - 06/28/06 02:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Mead
Reason for deletion: .
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CureCat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Mead]
#5800094 - 06/28/06 05:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Damn! Send some of that water to southern California! That is way lame... will the water cause substantial damage if it reaches your house?
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angryshroom
Stranger
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#5800107 - 06/28/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I would almost bet money that those are either the same or very similar to the ones found from Workman's post.
Did you notice any bluing at the base?
The first ones look like a Panaeolus of some kind. The shape of the cap really throws it off on the last picture though.
Did/could you get a picture of the gills? Try and go find some fresh species and try to get a sporeprint.
The other idea is possiblility of it being an active Conocybe. I have been noticing a lot of Conocybe's growing lately in the lawns.
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CureCat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: angryshroom]
#5800157 - 06/28/06 05:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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No bluing that I noticed at the base. It will be a few days or longer before I can get a fresh specimen, because of the dryness.
The gills can only be seen be splitting the cap into two- I doubt my camera phone will be able to get a good shot, but i will try next time i find one. I talked about my difficulty in getting a spore print above, it just isn't happening. Don't know why. I even took my black shirt and wiped the area of the paper where the cap had been sitting for 1-2days, but there were no white spores- nothing.
I have found plenty of conocybes lately, I doubt these are conocybes.
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mjshroomer
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#5800232 - 06/28/06 05:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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http://www.mushroomjohn.com/psilocybesemilanceata1.htm
Everything is in the Shroomery's Ultimate Shroom Guide, more than 6,000 images of psilocybe mushrooms.
Again not even the mods are referring people to the guide. It is a waste of time to constantly give the same answers ofer and over because people do not read what is available.
mj
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Mead
Registered: 07/26/02
Posts: 2,519
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) *DELETED* [Re: CureCat]
#5800247 - 06/28/06 05:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Mead
Reason for deletion: .
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xmush
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Mead]
#5800389 - 06/28/06 06:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks for the link MJ. Just poking around I didn't see anything about this balloon-ish mushroom that this post is about, although on my monitor the colors on your website always give me a headache so I didn't stay long! I think it is annoying when people don't read the excellent material that yours and other sites provide, but this post doesn't seem to really be one of *those* posts. Plus, if everyone just read what was already out there, there wouldn't be too much point in having a message board... Just some thoughts.
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TheComradical
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: xmush]
#5800512 - 06/28/06 07:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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What part of california do you live in?
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: mjshroomer]
#5800828 - 06/28/06 09:04 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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MJ your guide only has pics of aussie Psilocybes from the internet or stamet's book so im not used to referring people there. Maybe it is more helpful for other Psilocybes like semilanceata. What do you think these are?
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shroominDole
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Zen Peddler]
#5801033 - 06/28/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nice.....you da man......' The Workman ' goin ta Work ! Glad you posted that link !
Quote:
CureCat said: Wow, this is very interesting news. They are definitely not Psilocybe baeocystis. The cap of P. baeocystis flattens much more in maturity, whereas these suckers do not. I have not noted any bluing either. I checked out those links from both Mead and Workman- those look like what I have found. I browsed around and found two other links to previous bulletins depicting the same mushrooms. It seems I am not the first to misidentify... So, first of all, what are the distinguishing characteristics that set these "balloon shrooms" apart from "liberty caps"? The first time I was out hunting and came across these mushrooms, I thought they were some type of inactive Panaeolus species, but after some searching I figured they had to be P. semilanceata because I could find no other mushroom that looked even remotely similar to my finds. There seem to be two phenotypes- one that is more "balloon-ish"and round, and the other that has a larger and longer cap that is more of an egg shape. Did you notice any other distinctions between these two "types" when cultivating?? Workman, why do you suspect these thus unidentified mushrooms are active??
You all have been a wealth of information, thank you very much!
You'll probably have even less luck finding Psiolocybe baeocystis down here than LIBs but like they say never say never ......but probably never ....and if you ever do find a LIB here it would be much more likely in a cow field close to manure......Baeos and LIBs both have an outer layer covering over the outside of the cap.......a pellicle which is filamentous and can gelatinize making the cap viscid ( slipperry or slimy when wet ) or even sticky or tacky once they start to dry slightly.......this outer skin (pellicle) can usually be (but not always so forthcoming) easily peeled back or seperable by grabbing the top outer edge (margin) of the cap and pinch and peel the skin up and off........... they often term this ' an easily seperable gelatinized pellical ' ............and both are translucent striate which is where the gills show through the top of the cap as radial lines on the outer edge (margin) of the cap..........Psilocybe semilanceata are usually very distincly transleucent striate but as they are hygrophanous (changing color as they age or dry) these radial lines can become not so evident any more........LIBs have purple brown spores in print........these have black spores in print (if you can force it out of the little non willing participants) and are a species of Panaeolus which has always been one of our most commonly occuring mushrooms in lawns when you see Panaeolus foenisecii and Conocybes poppin up.........both phenotypes are common together......... I've always considered it possibly very close to Panaeolus papilionaceus - campanulatus - sphinctrinus complex from some of macroscopic characteristics....
And oh ya .......Workman showed the cap cutical as cellular which eliminates Psilocybes which have a filamentous cap cutical.
Nice work on that Workman !
-------------------- Worlds Largest 'Liberty Cap' (Cali Libs Confirmed !) ' Comments On Hallucinogenic Agarics And The Hallucinations Of Those Who Study Them ' Alexander H. Smith Mycologia vol.69 1977
Edited by shroominDole (06/28/06 11:25 PM)
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mikonn
me
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#5803021 - 06/29/06 12:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hey CureCat,
Here is my original post on these.
These are different than the ones that Workman is refering to (though they do have similarities and I believe Workman may have some of these specimans in his possession though he probably hasn't had an opportunity to look at them). These are black spored and I originally refered to them as black ballons. I've found them in numerous locations but only one or two times in the same location as the other "ballons". I have look at the cap structure under a microscope and I can confirm that these also are cellular. The most interesting aspect of both of these specimens is that though I have found them in all stages of maturation neither have appeared to be dropping spores, and if you have ever tried to get a print off of them you will know that it is next to impossible. It makes me wonder if they are Secotioid or Gastroid. Does anyone have any expierence or knowledge of these types of fungi? I'm not sure what the microscopic characteristics of such mushrooms would be but perhaps Workman could weigh in, as he has examined the others microscopically.
Also, it would be great if MJ could weigh in as to if he has every come across anything similiar over the years.
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shroominDole
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: mikonn]
#5803314 - 06/29/06 01:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hey mikkon.......just looked at your links and your susupected 'Copes' appear to be Panaeolina castaneifolius......these have 'roughened' spores but this feature can be hard to find under a scope......and most of your others appear to be basically the same mushrooms here and to what others have been posting this year......notice that many of your mushrooms are with 'appendiculate' cap margins so characteristic of the Panaeolus papillionaceus - campanulatus - sphinctrinus group......
-------------------- Worlds Largest 'Liberty Cap' (Cali Libs Confirmed !) ' Comments On Hallucinogenic Agarics And The Hallucinations Of Those Who Study Them ' Alexander H. Smith Mycologia vol.69 1977
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mikonn
me
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: shroominDole]
#5803462 - 06/29/06 02:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks for lookin ShroominDole Which "copes" are you refering to (I was alittle cope happy last year , seeing them everywhere.) One of them was looked at by Workman and it was concluded that it was in the Subb group possibly, but if you want you can pm me the ones you are refering to specifically. I have not been able to find very good documentation on casters (stamets picture seems wrong). Someone really needs to compile an online monograph of pans, like a wiki that is overseen by a true mycologist, with microscopic pics and the like. That would be nice. As for the Toothed margins, I recall only one post on which they appeared and the where noted as such, again pm me with the links if you are inclined. I'm also alittle uncertain as to whether you are saying that you believe that the two "ballon" types are the same, if that is the case I would have to respectfully disagree.
All the same, what do you think about this gastroid thing?
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Workman
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#6367329 - 12/13/06 06:58 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok, I think I am getting closer on the ID of these summer ballons.
Check this out.
Panaeolopsis nirimbii - Conehead Fungus
From this site: http://www.rbg.vic.gov.au/dbpages/fungi/factsheets2/highlight.php?id=55&what=imc
and CureCat's collection
A pretty good match, although it might not be the same species it looks to be the same genus. And its funny that they mention that its often mistaken for liberty caps (Psilocybe semilanceata).
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification
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Dr. uarewotueat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
#6367405 - 12/13/06 07:16 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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this thread came before my time here... very interesting indeed
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mjshroomer
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Zen Peddler]
#6369081 - 12/14/06 03:40 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Blue Meanie said:
Quote:
MJ your guide only has pics of aussie Psilocybes from the internet or stamet's book so im not used to referring people there. Maybe it is more helpful for other Psilocybes like semilanceata. What do you think these are?
Those images posted above by the poser are not P. semilanceata.
Also I have a few other images on my guide about thirty from Angry Shroom of Panaeolus subbalteatus whic are correct, and some European from Gartz. More than 6000 iamgtes in my guide are my fotos.
Yes some of the P. semilanceata are from Holland, Austria and Germany, but I have many from the USA which are mine.
And while some pictures came form internet, they are a few and ones which i have personal permission form the author to use, and those loaned to me are labeled witht he names of those who loaned them to me.
So I do not understand your comments above which I copied here in a quote from you.
ANd somw Aussie images are from my visit there years ago. And/or from friends who sent them to me after identifying them microscopically such as the King photo of Australiana and some of the P. suaeruginosa. But those are only a few compared to the images I have. My P. cyanescens has over 800 images alone.
mj
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Mead
Registered: 07/26/02
Posts: 2,519
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
#6369582 - 12/14/06 08:56 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Workman said: Ok, I think I am getting closer on the ID of these summer ballons.
Check this out.
Panaeolopsis nirimbii - Conehead Fungus
From this site: [url=http://anonym.to/?http://www.rbg.vic.gov.au/dbpages/fungi/factsheets2/highlight.php?id=55&what=imc]http://www.rbg.vic.gov.au/dbpages/fungi/factsheets2/highlight.php?id=55&what=imc[/url]
and CureCat's collection
A pretty good match, although it might not be the same species it looks to be the same genus. And its funny that they mention that its often mistaken for liberty caps (Psilocybe semilanceata).
Great news, do you know if those Panaeolopsis nirimbii, might be active? as I've found them around a lot too(tho only in one place[out of the many spots I've found subbalteatus at,] but I could've had a bag full, to be munching on over the winter.)
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Workman
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Mead]
#6369883 - 12/14/06 10:52 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Closely related to Panaeolus but unfortunately unlikely to be active. It should be easily cultivatable as most Pans are, so I'll give it a shot in the near future.
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification
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CureCat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
#6371805 - 12/14/06 08:29 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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WorkMan, Just so you know, some of the fresh specimens I collected had a slight bluing at the base of the stipe, like some collections of P. subbalteatus I have collected. They miiiight be mildly active, thouh the bluing is subtle, and only suggestive of an active chemical.
Also, as you must be aware, one species can have quite a variation of macroscopic characteristics, and I am not ruling out P. nirimbii, however the ones pictured are notably larger, and also show more scales than most of the specimens i collected. Of course, in the dryer weather, with the larger mushrooms, the scales were more prominent, as is also the case in the photo of Panaeolopsis nirimbii above.
Quote:
its gills usually remain crowded and enclosed at maturity, and they do not produce a spore print.
That is consistent with my experience in trying to achieve a spore print. It was not possible.
Lastly, there are 4 species within the genus Panaeolopsis. http://www.speciesfungorum.org/Names/Names.asp However, the image you posted is the only image I can find on the web, of any Panaeolopsis.
Looking forward to the results!
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Edited by CureCat (12/14/06 08:38 PM)
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Workman
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#6378265 - 12/16/06 11:03 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Any bluing is indeed promising. If you find any specimens with bluing in the future please save them and store them seperately.
I also think your specimens are a different species of Panaeolopsis. But at least it puts a label on what we are seeing instead of speculating its some localized mutation. There doesn't seem to be much information on this genus available but I'll keep digging for a key.
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification
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CureCat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
#6378487 - 12/17/06 01:45 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I haven't found ANYTHING online. So i think any info would have to come from other tangible sources.
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Workman
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
#6583125 - 02/18/07 08:59 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I finally got around to putting together the microscopy for this sample. A cultivation attempt is underway. Spores extracted from gill fragments are on agar and there is bluing on the mycelium. It seems that this may be an active species after all. I'll post a picture of the bluing mycelium on the agar soon.
It was difficult to find the gill edges and I wasn't sure what type of cystidia I was looking at so I just called it "cystidia" for now. The close relationship to the Panaeoli is obvious. The spores are curiously variable in size and shape. Many immature small pale spores are also present.
Several new composites are now up for further comparisons between species. http://www.sporeworksgallery.com/microscopy_composites
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification
Edited by Workman (02/21/07 03:30 PM)
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Mead
Registered: 07/26/02
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
#6584382 - 02/19/07 06:21 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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now is this from the Maryland finds or Cali finds?
I found some(NY ) but didn't see any bluing present on them, but I've rarely seen blue on panaeolus subbalteatus, soooo.
Also while you're here, did you ever manage to get a culture going from this unknown?
Edited by Mead (02/19/07 10:13 AM)
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CureCat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Mead]
#6584920 - 02/19/07 11:34 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Workman - I have gone in search of this mushroom with my digi cam in hand, unfortunately the mushrooms are a warm weather species, and until the night temperatures in california start to raise, I doubt I will find any. As soon as i do, i will take photos. There are some clear photos of what appear to be the same species from other users collections, have you seen those??
Mead - The mushrooms appear to be the same species as the two you have in your hand. The ones sent to Workman are samples from Southern California,. I have seen distinct bluing at the base of the stipe of multiple collections of this species, but was not able to capture the colour with my camera phone at the time. I also commonly find subbs with blue bases.
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Mead
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#6584940 - 02/19/07 11:42 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yea, I recall you saying that about the subbs. I've only seen bluing on one huge subb I found growing out of hay. I was actually down in Pennsylvania with some friends and never uploaded the pics from their camera on to my PC.
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Subbedhunter420
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Mead]
#6585262 - 02/19/07 01:18 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'd love to add to this post. I've been waiting for info on this mushroom for some while. I've found it on one occasion in that big patch of subbalteatus i found in Los Angeles County. They were not active as far as im concerned and i never found even a trace of bluing on them. and for some reason the ones I've picked are slightly different[image][/image] They have a slight difference in color of the Stem. (Its lighter.) and the caps never cracked like that. they started to melt a bit. kinda like a coprinus, but not entirely. they would then just turn blackish brown and wrinkled.
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Workman
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Mead]
#6585350 - 02/19/07 01:34 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am currently having some issues getting on to the shroomery so I hope this posts.
Mead: Working on the pluteus. In fact I tried very hard to get it going on agar and grew some sort of mycelium but it didn't fruit and I now think it was just contamination. Pluteus is a new genus for me and I don't really know what to look for in culture. I am planning on doing a microscopy composite of the sample soon. I really really want to get it into culture though. I haven't given up but its going to be a challenge.
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification
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Mead
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
#6585769 - 02/19/07 03:25 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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cool, no worries brother, I know you'll have better success with it than I would.
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Workman
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
#6594149 - 02/21/07 03:23 PM (17 years, 30 days ago) |
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Here is the culture so far. Its about 6 weeks old and very slow growing. The dark bits are gill fragments that never did anything. Only about 3 or 4 sites of germination were observed and no contaminates are present. The pictures don't look as good as it does in real life and I am fairly certain that the mycelium is from Panaeolopsis spores (but I have been wrong before). The large blue blob is a sclerotia-like body. Transfers to several substrates is pending.
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification
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CureCat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
#6594894 - 02/21/07 06:23 PM (17 years, 29 days ago) |
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That's from the specimens I sent?!
Wow. I sent you two specimens- one was smaller, and had a balloon shaped cap, the larger specimen pictured in your composite had an egg shaped cap, is that culture a result of tissue from both specimens or just the large one??
That knot is very blue indeed. How long has it been since you started that culture?
If you need more, i have a dozen or so dried specimens- both the small balloon type, and the large egg shaped type.
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auweia
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#6595212 - 02/21/07 07:32 PM (17 years, 29 days ago) |
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that's fascinating stuff. I think I have seen these before in the Bay Area. I knew from the first photos they were not semilenceata. For one thing they've never been reported south of Eureka, California and Eureka is basically the start of the PNW. I've picked them all over Humbolt and Del Norte county. The color was not the same in these photos, altho the shape is definately there.
Yeah, I'll bet these get confused alot with libertys, especially if you've never picked libertys before. If you've picked them before you probably would know it's not quite right. The one thing that struck me about these photos from Southern California is the stem. in libertys the stem often has a certain translucent sheen, and is fibrous, thicker, more rubbery, and often twirls as the stem goes up.
Mostly it's the color..the first photos posted in this thread, looked totally panaeolous to me...all of them...hard to describe, but the way they dry out is off..the hygrophanous bit...Libertys don't quite look like that, but close
I don't see any of that here. But still, it's fascinating that some sort of possibly newish species could be active.
you ought to make some tea sometime next time you find them. If I was in your shoes, I'd put 20 of them in a pot and simmer for half hour, and see what happens.
if it's under 60 of them for a dose, that already brings it up to the psilocybe stunzii level, so that would be significant indeed
Edited by auweia (02/21/07 07:42 PM)
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CureCat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: auweia]
#6595312 - 02/21/07 07:59 PM (17 years, 29 days ago) |
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First off, Since having compared many many semi photos to these mushrooms, I see the obvious difference. When I first found them, I thought they were a species of Panaeolus, but because I could not find ANY reference to the mushrooms I had picked, I assumed they were weird semis. Thanks to Workman for finding the info on Panaeolopsis!
I don't eat anything that edibility has not been confirmed for, so I will not test these out until chemical analysis has been done, or someone else decides to be the guinea pig. Of course, I won't recommend experimentation to any one.
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auweia
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#6595349 - 02/21/07 08:04 PM (17 years, 29 days ago) |
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yes, you're right, it's a bad idea to recommend any unknown mushroom for consumption
but for some of us, we know panaeolous is very unlikely to have toxins in it.
I'm just saying, if I thought it might be somewhat active with the slight bluing at the base, I would have no problem making a little tea.
but you're right, it should not be recommended in a public place like this..for the basic reason that, especially for newbies, if there's a way to screw it up, somebody's going to find a way
also, one other thing, and this is something that can't be conveyed on the net, or by photos
It's the way they FEEL...mostly panaeolous are much more fragile then psilocybes, they break apart easier in your hand if you squeeze them and mess them up than psilocybes do...psilocybes are almost always tougher in that respect. (you would need to have psilocybe semilenceata to compare this to, for example)
come to think of it...if you had a huge field of liberty caps and these in this thread, in the same field, interspersed, I could see where a blind person could separate them, by feel alone
fragiles are just a nickname I use, in a general way, to describe the usual stuff that comes up in the first 48 hours after a decent rain..everything from galerinas, to certain hypholomas, to mycenas and beyond
despite the similar shape to liberty caps, those first photos reminded me of another 'fragile'
also, one last thing...the nipple......On liberty caps, the nipple is usually something you can feel..Again, it can't be conveyed here unless you feel it yourself..you run your finger over the nipple on a liberty cap, and even if your blind, you can feel it..yeah that's a nipple
btw, it's been over 20 years since I picked libertys...But I used to pick piles of them, and I mean hundreds of pounds of it in a season
that is something you will never forget as long as you live
Edited by auweia (02/21/07 09:13 PM)
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Workman
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#6595420 - 02/21/07 08:19 PM (17 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
CureCat said: That's from the specimens I sent?!
Wow. I sent you two specimens- one was smaller, and had a balloon shaped cap, the larger specimen pictured in your composite had an egg shaped cap, is that culture a result of tissue from both specimens or just the large one??
That knot is very blue indeed. How long has it been since you started that culture?
If you need more, i have a dozen or so dried specimens- both the small balloon type, and the large egg shaped type.
I only worked up the larger one as it looked more promising to me at the time. But I really should check to see if the smaller one is different. And yes, that culture is from your larger sample, same as in the composite. I started the agar the same day I did the microscopy which was about 6 weeks ago. Its growing very slowly across the agar, but the sclerotia-like body is growing more rapidly. I want to put some sections on grass seed and sterilize horse manure and see what happens. With luck, I hope the manure fruits and the grass seed produces more of those lumps (but larger).
I think I am good with the samples I have for now, but don't throw them out.
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification
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CureCat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
#6596127 - 02/21/07 11:29 PM (17 years, 29 days ago) |
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I have no intention of tossing them. I keep a lot of dried mushrooms around.
I will be eager to see if you can produce any fruits, and if they will have both the balloon and egg shaped mushrooms.
How will you find out if they are active?
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canid
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#6596264 - 02/22/07 12:33 AM (17 years, 29 days ago) |
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i've always thought, with all the dried mushrooms - most of them inactive - that i've kept around the house throughout the years, whethere the police would know what to do about it or where to start.
-------------------- Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it. If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.
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CureCat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: canid]
#6596309 - 02/22/07 01:10 AM (17 years, 29 days ago) |
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You got it. If you have a fat sack of "gooms" lying around, it's obvious. If you have 30 different species of different colours, shapes, sizes and quantities.... They could find the right ones. But then you can reasonably claim ignorance.
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Workman
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#7497991 - 10/08/07 03:33 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Both of Curecat's original specimens are now worked up. The second specimen is indeed another species and closely resembles a specimen found in Maryland which I believe is a species of Galeropsis. Details of which can be found here --> Maryland Galeropsis
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CureCat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
#7498877 - 10/08/07 06:35 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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I spent a LOT of hours this spring and summer hunting for these damn mushrooms, hoping to get some better photographs now that i have a decent camera, but they just don't seem to like the colder weather in northern CA.
I'm very surprised to hear that they are in different genera altogether, since i have frequently found them growing in the same clusters, less than an inch away.
Awesome microscopy as always.
Did you ever get either of the cultures to fruit??
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Subbedhunter420
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#7499733 - 10/08/07 10:12 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Workman, i know you've had your hands full of species from all over the world recently but i was wondering if you have studied the panaeolopsis specimens i sent you a few months back and wondered if you had any updates on them. Thank you
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Workman
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#7499763 - 10/08/07 10:21 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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I was suprised myself that they were different and is the main reason I didn't look at the second one. But the coloration struck me as different while they were rehydrating. The Galeropsis (tentative identification) has brownish spores while the Panaeolopsis spores and gills are black.
I can fruit the Galeropsis from Maryland, which I think is the same species as your California specimen (I need to look at it closer to be sure). But the Panaeolopsis is not cooperating at all. Several attempts have failed, one in progress now. I can generate mycelium and if all else fails I'll try putting it outside for a summer fruiting. I'd love to get some good pictures.
Strangely, both species produce a similar type of blue sclerotia on agar and grass seed. I will attempt to cultivate the California Galeropsis to see if it also generates this blue sclerotia and is easy to fruit.
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CureCat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
#7500809 - 10/09/07 08:35 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Soooo, are we thinking this Galeropsis may also be active? The bluing is promising. Do the sclerotia from these two collections form similar to Ps. tampanensis and other sclerotia forming species?? What are the three different substrates you've attempted to fruit the Panaeolopsis from??
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Workman
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
#7501206 - 10/09/07 10:54 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Subbedhunter420, your samples have been worked up and are in the Panaeolodeae microscopy gallery. They are identical to Curecat's Panaeolopsis sample in all respects. Attempts to fruit these samples has currently failed. Substrates attempted are grass seed and sterilized horse manure (2 attempts with different isolates). Colonization is thin but complete on these substrates. I think the problem is more with the fruiting environment and/or casing.
The Maryland Galeropsis is probably active. Some bluing is visible on the stem bases of dried and fresh specimens and the sclerotia is brilliantly blue throughout. The sclerotia doesn't get very large (small pea sized) and is very dry and hard compared to Psilocybe sclerotia even when fresh. The California Galeropsis needs to be cultured to see if it behaves similarly.
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CureCat
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Re: Panaeolopsis & Galeropsis [Re: Workman]
#7803134 - 12/27/07 07:52 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just thought I'd add some related links.
MykoWeb has added two species of Secotioid mushrooms to its index: Galeropsis polytrichoides and Weraroa cucullata.
http://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/species/Galeropsis_polytrichoides.html
http://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/species/Weraroa_cucullata.html
I don't think either species are what I collected, but I thought these pages might help at some point.
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