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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
    #6594894 - 02/21/07 06:23 PM (17 years, 30 days ago)

That's from the specimens I sent?!  :shocked:

Wow.  I sent you two specimens- one was smaller, and had a balloon shaped cap, the larger specimen pictured in your composite had an egg shaped cap, is that culture a result of tissue from both specimens or just the large one??

That knot is very blue indeed.  How long has it been since you started that culture?

If you need more, i have a dozen or so dried specimens- both the small balloon type, and the large egg shaped type.


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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
    #6595212 - 02/21/07 07:32 PM (17 years, 29 days ago)

that's fascinating stuff. I think I have seen these before in the Bay Area. I knew from the first photos they were not semilenceata. For one thing they've never been reported south of Eureka, California and Eureka is basically the start of the PNW. I've picked them all over Humbolt and Del Norte county. The color was not the same in these photos, altho the shape is definately there.

Yeah, I'll bet these get confused alot with libertys, especially if you've never picked libertys before. If you've picked them before you probably would know it's not quite right. The one thing that struck me about these photos from Southern California is the stem. in libertys the stem often has a certain translucent sheen, and is fibrous, thicker, more rubbery, and often twirls as the stem goes up.


Mostly it's the color..the first photos posted in this thread, looked totally panaeolous to me...all of them...hard to describe, but the way they dry out is off..the hygrophanous bit...Libertys don't quite look like that, but close

I don't see any of that here. But still, it's fascinating that some sort of possibly newish species could be active.

you ought to make some tea sometime next time you find them. If I was in your shoes, I'd put 20 of them in a pot and simmer for half hour, and see what happens.


if it's under 60 of them for a dose, that already brings it up to the psilocybe stunzii level, so that would be significant indeed

Edited by auweia (02/21/07 07:42 PM)

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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: auweia]
    #6595312 - 02/21/07 07:59 PM (17 years, 29 days ago)

First off, Since having compared many many semi photos to these mushrooms, I see the obvious difference. When I first found them, I thought they were a species of Panaeolus, but because I could not find ANY reference to the mushrooms I had picked, I assumed they were weird semis.
Thanks to Workman for finding the info on Panaeolopsis!

I don't eat anything that edibility has not been confirmed for, so I will not test these out until chemical analysis has been done, or someone else decides to be the guinea pig. Of course, I won't recommend experimentation to any one.


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
    #6595349 - 02/21/07 08:04 PM (17 years, 29 days ago)

yes, you're right, it's a bad idea to recommend any unknown mushroom for consumption

but for some of us, we know panaeolous is very unlikely to have toxins in it.

I'm just saying, if I thought it might be somewhat active with the slight bluing at the base, I would have no problem making a little tea.

but you're right, it should not be recommended in a public place like this..for the basic reason that, especially for newbies, if there's a way to screw it up, somebody's going to find a way

also, one other thing, and this is something that can't be conveyed on the net, or by photos

It's the way they FEEL...mostly panaeolous are much more fragile then psilocybes, they break apart easier in your hand if you squeeze them and mess them up than psilocybes do...psilocybes are almost always tougher in that respect. (you would need to have psilocybe semilenceata to compare this to, for example)


come to think of it...if you had a huge field of liberty caps and these in this thread, in the same field, interspersed, I could see where a blind person could separate them, by feel alone

fragiles are just a nickname I use, in a general way, to describe the usual stuff that comes up in the first 48 hours after a decent rain..everything from galerinas, to certain hypholomas, to mycenas and beyond

despite the similar shape to liberty caps, those first photos reminded me of another 'fragile'

also, one last thing...the nipple......On liberty caps, the nipple is usually something you can feel..Again, it can't be conveyed here unless you feel it yourself..you run your finger over the nipple on a liberty cap, and even if your blind, you can feel it..yeah that's a nipple

btw, it's been over 20 years since I picked libertys...But I used to pick piles of them, and I mean hundreds of pounds of it in a season

that is something you will never forget as long as you live

Edited by auweia (02/21/07 09:13 PM)

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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
    #6595420 - 02/21/07 08:19 PM (17 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

CureCat said:
That's from the specimens I sent?!  :shocked:

Wow.  I sent you two specimens- one was smaller, and had a balloon shaped cap, the larger specimen pictured in your composite had an egg shaped cap, is that culture a result of tissue from both specimens or just the large one??

That knot is very blue indeed.  How long has it been since you started that culture?

If you need more, i have a dozen or so dried specimens- both the small balloon type, and the large egg shaped type.




I only worked up the larger one as it looked more promising to me at the time.  But I really should check to see if the smaller one is different.  And yes, that culture is from your larger sample, same as in the composite.  I started the agar the same day I did the microscopy which was about 6 weeks ago.  Its growing very slowly across the agar, but the sclerotia-like body is growing more rapidly.  I want to put some sections on grass seed and sterilize horse manure and see what happens.  With luck, I hope the manure fruits and the grass seed produces more of those lumps (but larger).

I think I am good with the samples I have for now, but don't throw them out.


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
    #6596127 - 02/21/07 11:29 PM (17 years, 29 days ago)

I have no intention of tossing them.  I keep a lot of dried mushrooms around.  :smile:

I will be eager to see if you can produce any fruits, and if they will have both the balloon and egg shaped mushrooms.

How will you find out if they are active?


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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
    #6596264 - 02/22/07 12:33 AM (17 years, 29 days ago)

i've always thought, with all the dried mushrooms - most of them inactive - that i've kept around the house throughout the years, whethere the police would know what to do about it or where to start.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: canid]
    #6596309 - 02/22/07 01:10 AM (17 years, 29 days ago)

You got it.  :wink:  If you have a fat sack of "gooms" lying around, it's obvious.  If you have 30 different species of different colours, shapes, sizes and quantities.... They could find the right ones.  But then you can reasonably claim ignorance.


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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
    #7497991 - 10/08/07 03:33 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)



Both of Curecat's original specimens are now worked up. The second specimen is indeed another species and closely resembles a specimen found in Maryland which I believe is a species of Galeropsis. Details of which can be found here --> Maryland Galeropsis


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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
    #7498877 - 10/08/07 06:35 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I spent a LOT of hours this spring and summer hunting for these damn mushrooms, hoping to get some better photographs now that i have a decent camera, but they just don't seem to like the colder weather in northern CA.  :undecided:

I'm very surprised to hear that they are in different genera altogether, since i have frequently found them growing in the same clusters, less than an inch away. 

Awesome microscopy as always.

Did you ever get either of the cultures to fruit??


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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
    #7499733 - 10/08/07 10:12 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Workman, i know you've had your hands full of species from all over the world recently but i was wondering if you have studied the panaeolopsis specimens i sent you a few months back and wondered if you had any updates on them. Thank you

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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
    #7499763 - 10/08/07 10:21 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I was suprised myself that they were different and is the main reason I didn't look at the second one. But the coloration struck me as different while they were rehydrating. The Galeropsis (tentative identification) has brownish spores while the Panaeolopsis spores and gills are black.

I can fruit the Galeropsis from Maryland, which I think is the same species as your California specimen (I need to look at it closer to be sure). But the Panaeolopsis is not cooperating at all. Several attempts have failed, one in progress now. I can generate mycelium and if all else fails I'll try putting it outside for a summer fruiting. I'd love to get some good pictures.

Strangely, both species produce a similar type of blue sclerotia on agar and grass seed. I will attempt to cultivate the California Galeropsis to see if it also generates this blue sclerotia and is easy to fruit.


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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
    #7500809 - 10/09/07 08:35 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Soooo, are we thinking this Galeropsis may also be active? The bluing is promising. Do the sclerotia from these two collections form similar to Ps. tampanensis and other sclerotia forming species??
What are the three different substrates you've attempted to fruit the Panaeolopsis from??


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Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
    #7501206 - 10/09/07 10:54 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Subbedhunter420, your samples have been worked up and are in the Panaeolodeae microscopy gallery. They are identical to Curecat's Panaeolopsis sample in all respects. Attempts to fruit these samples has currently failed. Substrates attempted are grass seed and sterilized horse manure (2 attempts with different isolates). Colonization is thin but complete on these substrates. I think the problem is more with the fruiting environment and/or casing.

The Maryland Galeropsis is probably active. Some bluing is visible on the stem bases of dried and fresh specimens and the sclerotia is brilliantly blue throughout. The sclerotia doesn't get very large (small pea sized) and is very dry and hard compared to Psilocybe sclerotia even when fresh. The California Galeropsis needs to be cultured to see if it behaves similarly.


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Re: Panaeolopsis & Galeropsis [Re: Workman]
    #7803134 - 12/27/07 07:52 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Just thought I'd add some related links.

MykoWeb has added two species of Secotioid mushrooms to its index:  Galeropsis polytrichoides and Weraroa cucullata.

http://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/species/Galeropsis_polytrichoides.html

http://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/species/Weraroa_cucullata.html

I don't think either species are what I collected, but I thought these pages might help at some point.  :ohwell:


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