Home | Community | Message Board

Mycohaus
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   North Spore Bulk Substrate   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Original Sensible Seeds USA West Coast Strains   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
InvisibleshroominDole
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 482
Loc: O.C . S o. C a l .
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5801033 - 06/28/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Nice.....you da man......' The Workman ' goin ta Work !
Glad you posted that link !



Quote:

CureCat said:
Wow, this is very interesting news.
They are definitely not Psilocybe baeocystis. The cap of P. baeocystis flattens much more in maturity, whereas these suckers do not. I have not noted any bluing either. I checked out those links from both Mead and Workman- those look like what I have found. I browsed around and found two other links to previous bulletins depicting the same mushrooms. It seems I am not the first to misidentify... So, first of all, what are the distinguishing characteristics that set these "balloon shrooms" apart from "liberty caps"?
The first time I was out hunting and came across these mushrooms, I thought they were some type of inactive Panaeolus species, but after some searching I figured they had to be P. semilanceata because I could find no other mushroom that looked even remotely similar to my finds.
There seem to be two phenotypes- one that is more "balloon-ish"and round, and the other that has a larger and longer cap that is more of an egg shape. Did you notice any other distinctions between these two "types" when cultivating??
Workman, why do you suspect these thus unidentified mushrooms are active??

You all have been a wealth of information, thank you very much!






You'll probably have even less luck finding Psiolocybe baeocystis down here than LIBs but like they say never say never :smile:......but probably never :crazy:....and if you ever do find a LIB here it would be much more likely in a cow field close to manure......Baeos and LIBs both have an outer layer covering over the outside of the cap.......a pellicle   which is filamentous and can gelatinize making the cap viscid ( slipperry or slimy when wet ) or  even sticky or tacky once they start to dry slightly.......this outer skin (pellicle) can usually be (but not always so forthcoming) easily peeled back or seperable by grabbing the top outer edge (margin) of the cap and pinch and peel the skin up and off........... they often term this  ' an easily seperable gelatinized pellical ' ............and both are translucent striate which is where the gills show through the top of the cap as radial lines on the outer edge (margin) of the cap..........Psilocybe semilanceata are usually very distincly transleucent striate but as they are hygrophanous (changing color as they age or dry) these radial lines can become not so evident any more........LIBs have purple brown spores in print........these have black spores in print (if you can force it out of the little non willing participants) and are a species of Panaeolus which has always been one of our most commonly occuring mushrooms  in lawns when you see Panaeolus foenisecii and Conocybes poppin up.........both phenotypes are common together......... I've always considered it possibly very close to Panaeolus papilionaceus - campanulatus - sphinctrinus complex from some of macroscopic characteristics....

And oh ya .......Workman showed the cap cutical as cellular which eliminates Psilocybes which have a filamentous cap cutical. :thumbup:

Nice work on that Workman !


--------------------
Worlds Largest 'Liberty Cap' (Cali Libs Confirmed !)
' Comments On Hallucinogenic Agarics And The Hallucinations Of Those Who Study Them '
Alexander H. Smith
Mycologia vol.69 1977

Edited by shroominDole (06/28/06 11:25 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemikonn
me

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 192
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
    #5803021 - 06/29/06 12:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Hey CureCat,

Here is my original post on these.

These are different than the ones that Workman is refering to (though they do have similarities and I believe Workman may have some of these specimans in his possession though he probably hasn't had an opportunity to look at them). These are black spored and I originally refered to them as black ballons. I've found them in numerous locations but only one or two times in the same location as the other "ballons". I have look at the cap structure under a microscope and I can confirm that these also are cellular.
The most interesting aspect of both of these specimens is that though I have found them in all stages of maturation neither have appeared to be dropping spores, and if you have ever tried to get a print off of them you will know that it is next to impossible. It makes me wonder if they are Secotioid or Gastroid. Does anyone have any expierence or knowledge of these types of fungi? I'm not sure what the microscopic characteristics of such mushrooms would be but perhaps Workman could weigh in, as he has examined the others microscopically.

Also, it would be great if MJ could weigh in as to if he has every come across anything similiar over the years.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleshroominDole
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 482
Loc: O.C . S o. C a l .
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: mikonn]
    #5803314 - 06/29/06 01:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Hey mikkon.......just looked at your links and your susupected 'Copes' appear to be Panaeolina castaneifolius......these have 'roughened' spores but this feature can be hard to find under a scope......and most of your others appear to be basically the same mushrooms here and to what others have been posting this year......notice that many of your mushrooms are with 'appendiculate' cap margins so characteristic of the Panaeolus papillionaceus - campanulatus - sphinctrinus group......


--------------------
Worlds Largest 'Liberty Cap' (Cali Libs Confirmed !)
' Comments On Hallucinogenic Agarics And The Hallucinations Of Those Who Study Them '
Alexander H. Smith
Mycologia vol.69 1977

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemikonn
me

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 192
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: shroominDole]
    #5803462 - 06/29/06 02:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for lookin ShroominDole
Which "copes" are you refering to (I was alittle cope happy last year :smile:, seeing them everywhere.)  One of them was looked at by Workman and it was concluded that it was in the Subb group possibly, but if you want you can pm me the ones you are refering to specifically. I have not been able to find very good documentation on casters (stamets picture seems wrong).  Someone really needs to compile an online monograph of pans, like a wiki that is overseen by a true mycologist, with microscopic pics and the like.  That would be nice.
As for the Toothed margins, I recall only one post on which they appeared and the where noted as such, again pm me with the links if you are inclined.
I'm also alittle uncertain as to whether you are saying that you believe that the two "ballon" types are the same, if that is the case I would have to respectfully disagree.

All the same, what do you think about this gastroid thing?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWorkmanV
1999 Spore War Veteran
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,601
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 5 hours, 17 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
    #6367329 - 12/13/06 06:58 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, I think I am getting closer on the ID of these summer ballons.

Check this out.


Panaeolopsis nirimbii - Conehead Fungus



From this site:
http://www.rbg.vic.gov.au/dbpages/fungi/factsheets2/highlight.php?id=55&what=imc

and CureCat's collection



A pretty good match, although it might not be the same species it looks to be the same genus. And its funny that they mention that its often mistaken for liberty caps (Psilocybe semilanceata).


--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDr. uarewotueat
Peyote Farmer
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 16,545
Loc: Uk / Philippines
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
    #6367405 - 12/13/06 07:16 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

this thread came before my time here... very interesting indeed :tongue:


--------------------
View My Gallery

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #6369081 - 12/14/06 03:40 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Blue Meanie said:
Quote:

MJ your guide only has pics of aussie Psilocybes from the internet or stamet's book so im not used to referring people there. Maybe it is more helpful for other Psilocybes like semilanceata.
What do you think these are?





Those images posted above by the poser are not P. semilanceata.

Also I have a few other images on my guide about thirty from Angry Shroom of Panaeolus subbalteatus whic are correct, and some European from Gartz. More than 6000 iamgtes in my guide are my fotos.

Yes some of the P. semilanceata are from Holland, Austria and Germany, but I have many from the USA which are mine.

And while some pictures came form internet, they are a few and ones which i have personal permission form the author to use, and those loaned to me are labeled witht he names of those who loaned them to me.

So I do not understand your comments above which I copied here in a quote from you.

ANd somw Aussie images are from my visit there years ago. And/or from friends who sent them to me after identifying them microscopically such as the King photo of Australiana and some of the P. suaeruginosa. But those are only a few compared to the images I have. My P. cyanescens has over 800 images alone.


mj

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMead

Registered: 07/26/02
Posts: 2,519
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
    #6369582 - 12/14/06 08:56 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Workman said:
Ok, I think I am getting closer on the ID of these summer ballons.

Check this out.


Panaeolopsis nirimbii - Conehead Fungus



From this site:
[url=http://anonym.to/?http://www.rbg.vic.gov.au/dbpages/fungi/factsheets2/highlight.php?id=55&what=imc]http://www.rbg.vic.gov.au/dbpages/fungi/factsheets2/highlight.php?id=55&what=imc[/url]

and CureCat's collection



A pretty good match, although it might not be the same species it looks to be the same genus. And its funny that they mention that its often mistaken for liberty caps (Psilocybe semilanceata).




Great news, do you know if those Panaeolopsis nirimbii, might be active? as I've found them around a lot too(tho only in one place[out of the many spots I've found subbalteatus at,] but I could've had a bag full, to be munching on over the winter.)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWorkmanV
1999 Spore War Veteran
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,601
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 5 hours, 17 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Mead]
    #6369883 - 12/14/06 10:52 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Closely related to Panaeolus but unfortunately unlikely to be active. It should be easily cultivatable as most Pans are, so I'll give it a shot in the near future.


--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
    #6371805 - 12/14/06 08:29 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

WorkMan, Just so you know, some of the fresh specimens I collected had a slight bluing at the base of the stipe, like some collections of P. subbalteatus I have collected.  They miiiight be mildly active, thouh the bluing is subtle, and only suggestive of an active chemical. 

Also, as you must be aware, one species can have quite a variation of macroscopic characteristics, and I am not ruling out P. nirimbii, however the ones pictured are notably larger, and also show more scales than most of the specimens i collected.  Of course, in the dryer weather, with the larger mushrooms, the scales were more prominent, as is also the case in the photo of Panaeolopsis nirimbii above.

Quote:

its gills usually remain crowded and enclosed at maturity, and they do not produce a spore print.



That is consistent with my experience in trying to achieve a spore print.  It was not possible.

Lastly, there are 4 species within the genus Panaeolopsis.
http://www.speciesfungorum.org/Names/Names.asp
However, the image you posted is the only image I can find on the web, of any Panaeolopsis.

Looking forward to the results!  :smile:


--------------------

Edited by CureCat (12/14/06 08:38 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWorkmanV
1999 Spore War Veteran
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,601
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 5 hours, 17 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
    #6378265 - 12/16/06 11:03 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Any bluing is indeed promising. If you find any specimens with bluing in the future please save them and store them seperately.

I also think your specimens are a different species of Panaeolopsis. But at least it puts a label on what we are seeing instead of speculating its some localized mutation. There doesn't seem to be much information on this genus available but I'll keep digging for a key.


--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
    #6378487 - 12/17/06 01:45 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I haven't found ANYTHING online. So i think any info would have to come from other tangible sources.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWorkmanV
1999 Spore War Veteran
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,601
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 5 hours, 17 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
    #6583125 - 02/18/07 08:59 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I finally got around to putting together the microscopy for this sample. A cultivation attempt is underway. Spores extracted from gill fragments are on agar and there is bluing on the mycelium. It seems that this may be an active species after all. I'll post a picture of the bluing mycelium on the agar soon.



It was difficult to find the gill edges and I wasn't sure what type of cystidia I was looking at so I just called it "cystidia" for now. The close relationship to the Panaeoli is obvious. The spores are curiously variable in size and shape. Many immature small pale spores are also present.

Several new composites are now up for further comparisons between species.
http://www.sporeworksgallery.com/microscopy_composites


--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:

Edited by Workman (02/21/07 03:30 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMead

Registered: 07/26/02
Posts: 2,519
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
    #6584382 - 02/19/07 06:21 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

now is this from the Maryland finds or Cali finds?

I found some(NY ) but didn't see any bluing present on them, but I've rarely seen blue on panaeolus subbalteatus, soooo.

Also while you're here, did you ever manage to get a culture going from this unknown?

Edited by Mead (02/19/07 10:13 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCureCat
Strangest
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
Trusted Identifier
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Mead]
    #6584920 - 02/19/07 11:34 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Workman - I have gone in search of this mushroom with my digi cam in hand, unfortunately the mushrooms are a warm weather species, and until the night temperatures in california start to raise, I doubt I will find any. As soon as i do, i will take photos. There are some clear photos of what appear to be the same species from other users collections, have you seen those??

Mead - The mushrooms appear to be the same species as the two you have in your hand. The ones sent to Workman are samples from Southern California,.
I have seen distinct bluing at the base of the stipe of multiple collections of this species, but was not able to capture the colour with my camera phone at the time. I also commonly find subbs with blue bases.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMead

Registered: 07/26/02
Posts: 2,519
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: CureCat]
    #6584940 - 02/19/07 11:42 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Yea, I recall you saying that about the subbs. I've only seen bluing on one huge subb I found growing out of hay. I was actually down in Pennsylvania with some friends and never uploaded the pics from their camera on to my PC.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSubbedhunter420
Solitary Hunter
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 1,501
Loc: LA/Ventura County
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Mead]
    #6585262 - 02/19/07 01:18 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I'd love to add to this post. I've been waiting for info on this mushroom for some while. I've found it on one occasion in that big patch of subbalteatus i found in Los Angeles County. They were not active as far as im concerned and i never found even a trace of bluing on them. and for some reason the ones I've picked are slightly different[image][/image]
They have a slight difference in color of the Stem. (Its lighter.) and the caps never cracked like that. they started to melt a bit. kinda like a coprinus, but not entirely. they would then just turn blackish brown and wrinkled.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWorkmanV
1999 Spore War Veteran
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,601
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 5 hours, 17 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Mead]
    #6585350 - 02/19/07 01:34 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I am currently having some issues getting on to the shroomery so I hope this posts.

Mead: Working on the pluteus. In fact I tried very hard to get it going on agar and grew some sort of mycelium but it didn't fruit and I now think it was just contamination. Pluteus is a new genus for me and I don't really know what to look for in culture. I am planning on doing a microscopy composite of the sample soon. I really really want to get it into culture though. I haven't given up but its going to be a challenge.


--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMead

Registered: 07/26/02
Posts: 2,519
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
    #6585769 - 02/19/07 03:25 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

cool, no worries brother, I know you'll have better success with it than I would.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWorkmanV
1999 Spore War Veteran
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,601
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 5 hours, 17 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: P. semilanceata in summer...(???) [Re: Workman]
    #6594149 - 02/21/07 03:23 PM (17 years, 30 days ago)

Here is the culture so far. Its about 6 weeks old and very slow growing. The dark bits are gill fragments that never did anything. Only about 3 or 4 sites of germination were observed and no contaminates are present. The pictures don't look as good as it does in real life and I am fairly certain that the mycelium is from Panaeolopsis spores (but I have been wrong before). The large blue blob is a sclerotia-like body. Transfers to several substrates is pending.



--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   North Spore Bulk Substrate   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Original Sensible Seeds USA West Coast Strains   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Panaeolus cinctulus + Panaeolopsis cyanophilus 4,999 12 09/15/09 09:09 PM
by quadracer
* Galeropsis besseyi pic BlimeyGrimey 1,040 1 06/13/08 09:49 AM
by HerbBaker
* Panaeolopsis!
( 1 2 3 all )
alteredstates 8,822 54 08/07/14 01:21 AM
by maynardjameskeenan
* Some Panaeolopsis, and misc. (Pics) Subbedhunter420 5,326 12 07/25/07 01:56 PM
by Workman
* Strange beasty mutant psilocybe semilanceata???
( 1 2 all )
saintpedro 8,955 31 11/06/09 07:27 AM
by Coheed88
* Psilocybe semilanceata in Sweden lazlows 12,992 10 02/24/05 04:56 PM
by Soularize
* Panaeolopsis? Byrain 2,501 10 04/15/10 01:00 AM
by Alan Rockefeller
* panaeolopsis adamlivesinCA 1,596 7 07/10/08 09:13 PM
by weiliiiiiii

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: ToxicMan, inski, Alan Rockefeller, Duggstar, TimmiT, Anglerfish, Tmethyl, Lucis, Doc9151, Land Trout
11,859 topic views. 2 members, 12 guests and 17 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 13 queries.