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InvisibleMasFina
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Unique Pinning Tek
    #5791623 - 06/26/06 04:07 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I found two different posts claiming 2 unique pinning teks and I'm thinking that they must be on to something. This one:http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=Forum2&Number=1945207&PHPSESSID=&fpart=1#Post1945207

Describes temperature cycling to induce pinning and claims he tested it with success. The other one I lost, but it said that after several days in fruiting conditions he put them in darkness for a whole day and this caused pinning. He said he tested it a couple times and it continued to work. I say lets combine these strategies to get maximum pinnage. That's what swim is doing right now. I'll let you know his results.


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OfflineMLBjammer
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: MasFina]
    #5791682 - 06/26/06 05:50 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Well, light triggers pinning, so total darkness really doesn't make any sense. As far as temp. cycles, I would not vary it too much. About 75 F is your best temp with cubies. Too cool will slow them down, and too hot will invite contams more readily. GL.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: MLBjammer]
    #5791692 - 06/26/06 06:04 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It is a coincidence of environmental conditions that trigger your best pinsets. There is no benefit to rushing pinning before full colonization and can only hurt yeild IME. Consistancy is proven with a proper pinning strategy with massive pinsets and numerous flushes what more could one want? Soon is not better in this hobby if you are concerned about yields at all.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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OfflineYamidude
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: hyphae]
    #5792012 - 06/26/06 10:21 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

well my temps vary from lows 70's (72 or so) at night and during the day get up to high 70's (77 at highest) So i guess you could call that temp cycling.


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: hyphae]
    #5792505 - 06/26/06 01:14 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Hyphae, I wasn't considering premature fruiting. The way I would do it is to wait untill the casing looks just right and then initiate pinning with these techniques. Both of these posts that this were based on said that they had had a lot of trouble fruiting untill they did these techniques, and then they pinned right afterwards. They couldn't both be imagining things. I know this is going against the common pinning practices, but I think there could be something to it.


--------------------
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Edited by MasFina (06/26/06 01:19 PM)


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Offlinecoda
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: MasFina]
    #5792580 - 06/26/06 01:43 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Pinning requires more then just temp drops to induce pinning. Initiating the pinning triggers at the right time while giving your colonized substrate the right enviornment is the best way to produce robust flushes and nice looking mushrooms.


--------------------
To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG

i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug*

-A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: MasFina]
    #5792647 - 06/26/06 02:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MasFina said:
Hyphae, I wasn't considering premature fruiting. The way I would do it is to wait untill the casing looks just right and then initiate pinning with these techniques. Both of these posts that this were based on said that they had had a lot of trouble fruiting untill they did these techniques, and then they pinned right afterwards. They couldn't both be imagining things. I know this is going against the common pinning practices, but I think there could be something to it.




I find a lot that people who have "trouble" pinning just haven't waited long enough, start tinkering with things, and assume it was their tinkering that did it rather than time... and sure if it worked out once and you take the same steps on the same timeline its going to work out again in the same manner but that doesn't mean the tinkering helped any. I read the initial post that this thread was linked to... and I don't know. Seems like a lot of effort and tight control to replicate temperature cycles like that, when we can get awesome pinsets by leaving it be.

I don't agree that pinning is a panic response or a response to cold weather coming in cubensis either, which is the whole basis for this idea... they fruit year round in many areas where there is never "cold" weather that would kill them. I'd be more inclined to believe a temperature drop as a trigger goes along with the other things (fresh air and light), because think like mycelium in a turd in a field for a second... you're colonizing the inside of this nice dark poo thats warm due to other microbio activity going on... what do you find when you've reached the outer edge of it? Light, fresh air, and its a little cooler out there. With our triggers we're not saying "hey mycelium hurry and get to fruiting because you're about to die"... we're saying "hey mycelium, this is the SURFACE, you can pin here."


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Offlinecoda
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: creamcorn]
    #5792669 - 06/26/06 02:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I'd be more inclined to believe a temperature drop as a trigger goes along with the other things (fresh air and light)




exactly, those are the three pinning triggers required for a substrate to pin. That's been recorded for years, temperature drop, fresh air exchange, and a bit of light. This is why you do all incubation in the dark with foil covering the substrate.


--------------------
To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG

i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug*

-A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: coda]
    #5793052 - 06/26/06 04:26 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Well I know those things, but I was just considering this as an option if a casing is being stubborn and doesn't want to pin despite having textbook conditions.

"think like mycelium in a turd in a field for a second"-creamcorn

LMAO,good way to put it.


--------------------
A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras
Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step
Timer Modification
PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: MasFina]
    #5793058 - 06/26/06 04:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Also, swim had a casing pin before the casing was taken out of the inc and before the casing was colonized enough. The pinset is seriously lacking, so he's gonna try this tek in hopes of jumpstarting it.


--------------------
A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras
Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step
Timer Modification
PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: MasFina]
    #5793090 - 06/26/06 04:41 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> This is why you do all incubation in the dark with foil covering the substrate.

Actually, if you let the myc see some weak light during incubation you will pin faster. No dramatic change in light is needed. A paper I was reading reported 4 days quicker pinning with weak light during incubation vs total darkness.


-FF


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: fastfred]
    #5793113 - 06/26/06 04:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Answer this though. If you pin while still incubating, but there are only like 4 pins, should you incubate longer or put it in the FC?


--------------------
A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras
Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step
Timer Modification
PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecoda
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: fastfred]
    #5793180 - 06/26/06 05:04 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i respectufully disagree, while it MAY cause your substrate to pin faster it can be detrimental to the pinset. You want to initiate your triggers all at once, this is the most beneficial method, remember indoor cultivation doesn't try to simulate mother nature it tries to make better then her.

Everyone is always trying to do things faster, i don't understand why, it's always better to work smarter then harder. There is nothing wrong with experimenting, but it's best to have a seperate grow for those things. The tried and true methods (eg hyphaes strat.) are the best way to go if you want to achieve the best yields and nicest mushrooms.




--------------------
To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG

i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug*

-A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: Yamidude]
    #5793268 - 06/26/06 05:32 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yamidude said:
well my temps vary from lows 70's (72 or so) at night and during the day get up to high 70's (77 at highest)  So i guess you could call that temp cycling.



That isn't cycling at all that is the optimal temp range for fruiting. :wink:


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: coda]
    #5793326 - 06/26/06 05:48 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> while it MAY cause your substrate to pin faster it can be detrimental to the pinset.

I think you are probably right. Faster pinning is not always better. However, with PF style cakes it might be helpful to let a little light hit them once in awhile. The paper was on PF cakes and I don't remember anything about yields or pinsets. The surface of PF cakes will stay the same, but if you are casing then the surface will be changed, so it probably wouldn't be helpful. I can definitely see how a few stray early pins could screw up your first flush pretty badly.

I think more experimentation is needed. I wasn't really trying to say that it would be better to have light during incubation, but it might not be such a bad thing as is often claimed.


-FF


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: coda]
    #5793350 - 06/26/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup:
Quote:

coda said:
i respectfully disagree, while it MAY cause your substrate to pin faster it can be detrimental to the pinset.  You want to initiate your triggers all at once, this is the most beneficial method, remember indoor cultivation doesn't try to simulate mother nature it tries to make better then her. 

Everyone is always trying to do things faster, i don't understand why, it's always better to work smarter then harder.  There is nothing wrong with experimenting, but it's best to have a separate grow for those things.  The tried and true methods (ie; hyphaes strat.) are the best way to go if you want to achieve the best yields and nicest mushrooms.






:thumbup: I totally agree it will pin faster but overall pinset will suffer. A simple understanding of what is actually happening here would clear up any and all confusion guys. Also creamcorn I have noticed this phenomenon also when time was the real trigger.

MasFina if you are having trouble with your pinsets look at your technique something is wrong you need to find out what exactly you are doing wrong no other tek will help better unless it hits somehow on what you were doing wrong and I shouldn't really say wrong but possibly lacking or omitting something you deem not relevant. Remember pinsetting is all about timing and coincidence of your pinning triggers (all of them!).


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: MasFina]
    #5793356 - 06/26/06 05:56 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MasFina said:
Answer this though. If you pin while still incubating, but there are only like 4 pins, should you incubate longer or put it in the FC?



If it's pinning then it should have been patched and in the FC already.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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OfflineYamidude
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: hyphae]
    #5793406 - 06/26/06 06:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
Quote:

Yamidude said:
well my temps vary from lows 70's (72 or so) at night and during the day get up to high 70's (77 at highest)  So i guess you could call that temp cycling.



That isn't cycling at all that is the optimal temp range for fruiting. :wink:




w00t.  that's good for me.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: fastfred]
    #5793411 - 06/26/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
> while it MAY cause your substrate to pin faster it can be detrimental to the pinset.

I think you are probably right.  Faster pinning is not always better.  However, with PF style cakes it might be helpful to let a little light hit them once in awhile.  The paper was on PF cakes and I don't remember anything about yields or pinsets.  The surface of PF cakes will stay the same, but if you are casing then the surface will be changed, so it probably wouldn't be helpful.  I can definitely see how a few stray early pins could screw up your first flush pretty badly.

I think more experimentation is needed.  I wasn't really trying to say that it would be better to have light during incubation, but it might not be such a bad thing as is often claimed.


-FF



The thing is early pinning takes vital energy away from your initial pinset which is where our yield is but I see you already realize this  :thumbup:


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: Unique Pinning Tek [Re: hyphae]
    #5793577 - 06/26/06 07:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

If that's the case Hyphae, Then could you pick some of the bigger, early shrooms in order to promote more pins?


--------------------
A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras
Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step
Timer Modification
PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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