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Offlinewilshire
free radical
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
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Re: nonsense [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5797509 - 06/27/06 10:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

and calling it a "plutocratic authouritarian republic" as opposed to "fascism" is like calling a dog a canine

fascism is a specific type of authoritarian government. all fascist governments are authoritarian, but not all authoritarian governments are fascist.

a dog is a specific type of of canine. all dogs are canines, but not all canines are dogs.

assuming that the united states government is authoritarian, it is still not fascist.

a more accurate analogy using your terms would be to say that calling it "fascism" instead of calling it a "plutocratic authoritarian republic" (both different subtypes of "authoritarian government") is like calling an arctic fox a dingo (both different subtypes of "canine").

listen... all i'm saying is that we drop this silly use of the word "fascist" everywhere. the united states government, whatever it actually is, is certainly by no means fascist. can you make an argument without using inaccurate and emotionally charged smear words?

just how authoritarian is the US government? can it be called "authoritarian"? if so, what is the nature of american authoritarianism? (we've ruled out "fascist" i think.) how does it compare to other authoritarian governments of the world and political philosophies?


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: nonsense [Re: wilshire]
    #5798166 - 06/28/06 01:33 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Trying to claim that "It's not like Benito wrote 80 years ago so therefore it cannot be fascism" doesn't work. Fascism is going to evolve - particularly when the version Benito tried resulted in complete catastrophe for everyone concerned. Anyone wanting to try fascism today would obviously change the bits that didn't work (marching round seig-heiling) and stick to the bits that did work like finding scapegoats and massive funding for the military-industrial complex (war on terror).

Whether or not the US could be called fascist, I think the best way would be to identify characteristics of fascist governments and see how many the US shares.

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OfflinePanoramix
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Registered: 11/26/03
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Re: nonsense [Re: Alex213]
    #5798234 - 06/28/06 02:13 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I find it worth pointing out at this point that wikipedia is not a particularly good or accurate source of anything, except perhaps excessively simplistic thought.

My info on Spain was badly out of date, I now realize. My foul.

And I still coulda sworn Franco was the first fascist in power. I got a Jeopardy question to that effect wrong, 'cause I guessed Mussolini. Maybe it was the other way around. When it comes down to it, I don't know my enemy nearly as well as I should, 'cause they're so freakin' scary and disgusting I find it hard to study 'em. But that's no proper excuse. *hangs head in shame*


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Offlinewilshire
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Registered: 05/11/05
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Re: nonsense [Re: Alex213]
    #5798599 - 06/28/06 07:56 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Fascism is going to evolve - particularly when the version Benito tried resulted in complete catastrophe for everyone concerned.

at some point in evolution, we recognize when a new species comes in to being and we call it something new.

you can have authoritarianism, or militarism, or nationalism, or all three, but without fascist ideology, it's not fascism. call it something else because it is something else.

and i think "what is american authoritarianism?", "what is american nationalism?" and "what is american militarism?" are much better questions that ask about the real world rather than one that asks only the meaning of a label: "what is fascism?"


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Edited by wilshire (06/28/06 08:02 AM)

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Re: nonsense [Re: wilshire]
    #5798906 - 06/28/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I believe the term for the current paradigm is "neoconservatism."


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: nonsense [Re: wilshire]
    #5799654 - 06/28/06 02:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

and i think "what is american authoritarianism?", "what is american nationalism?" and "what is american militarism?" are much better questions that ask about the real world rather than one that asks only the meaning of a label: "what is fascism?"

Yeah but does "authoritarianism" really get the job done? Your dad could be "authoritarian", a government could be "authoritarian" but harmless. Fascist has another dimension to it than "authoritarian" or "nationalist" - fascist implies that it's dangerous.

Some King in the Federated Islands of Micronesia might be "authoritarian" but have never started a war in his life, how does that compare to Bush launching an illegal war of aggresion and butchering thousands of innocent people? Do we just use the word "authoritarian" in both cases?

I take your point tho.

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