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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Evidence of soul and afterlife
    #5790031 - 06/25/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, the other thread sort of gave me an idea, so istead of letting it be lost in that thread, I'd like to make a discussion out of it..

Many of you say there is no evidence of soul, afterlife, god and such things

So, I wonder, what is your idea of how this evidence should look like

Ok, you are standing on the street, you have a minivan full of gass, and all kinds of measuring devices that there are in it.
where would you go to search for evidence and how?
What would you expect to find if those things trully did exist?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineFospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
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Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5790145 - 06/25/06 06:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

There's no proof of the non-existance of an afterlife, however there is evidence of the contrary.


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010001100100001001000101!

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5791203 - 06/26/06 12:40 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It is impossible to find evidence of a soul, afterlife, god, etc in any empiric, inductive, or operational sense. These are things that we can only chatter about.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5791626 - 06/26/06 04:11 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
It is impossible to find evidence of a soul, afterlife, god, etc in any empiric, inductive, or operational sense. These are things that we can only chatter about.




then they do not exist?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineXanthas
Blaspheme,blaspheyou, Blaspheverybody

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 267
Last seen: 17 years, 12 days
Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5791693 - 06/26/06 06:05 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
then they do not exist?




They may exist, but not in any way that matters (to us). Essentially, they would be extra-universal, having no impact upon this one, and thus, effectively, are nonexistent (to us).

Tell me, if there was an invisible, intangible object, not affected by any of the forces of this universe, would we ever be able to detect it? Would it matter? Could it truly be said to be of this universe?

By definition, no, no, and no.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.

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OfflineElectricJW
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Registered: 10/31/05
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Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: Xanthas]
    #5791822 - 06/26/06 08:22 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

What about Astral Projection? I haven't been able to AP yet, but I've been real close.....close enough to know that it IS REAL.

What I've read about AP, it seems that it is the proof that we do have a soul and afterlife. Yet the only way to prove it, is for each individual to do it theirselves.....which most people aren't even open minded enough to even try it.


--------------------
"Visualize the action, then actualize the vision." - King of the Hill

“Long you live and high you'll fly and smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry and all you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be.”- Pink Floyd

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InvisiblethatiAM
Stranger

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1,250
Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: ElectricJW]
    #5791824 - 06/26/06 08:28 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

There is no way to scientifically prove it, it's pointless.  It's not that science disproves it.  Science has nothing to say about religion and religion has nothing to say about science.  All proof of these topics is completely experiential, my proof means nothing to you and the only proof that is meaningful is your own personal experience of proof.  That's why it's silly to attempt to prove anything.  And you sure as heck won't prove it with science :smile:

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: thatiAM]
    #5791879 - 06/26/06 09:24 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

This thread was aimed at people who rely on proof in their beliefs that there is no afterlife god and soul, so I was asking them more or less

Maybe this should have been posted in the science forum


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5791988 - 06/26/06 10:10 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It is not required that skeptics prove that God/Heaven/the soul do not exist, as they are not the claimants.  The burden of proof lies with the claimants.  As there is no proof, and probably cannot be any proof, it is purely opinion and subjective interpretation of experience.

This is just fine, except that many religious believers take the stance that THEIR subjective opinion should dictate law and education, that it is acceptable for them to pass judgment (and even engage in hate crimes) on harmless lifestyle choices (pre-marital sex, gay marriage, agnosticism, feminism, etc.) and that everyone else is responsible for proving that their mythology is non-factual.  :thumbdown:

If we cannot PROVE either the non-existence nor the existence of a soul, God, Heaven, Hell, Jesus, etc... then it is all just "best guess."  It seems far simpler and more equitable to keep our beliefs in the subjective realm, seek to do no harm to others, and find a path which opens our hearts and minds to our life experiences.

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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5792083 - 06/26/06 10:40 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I have no idea what it would sound like, seeing as how I've never heard a satisfactory proof. However I do know that it would be logical and reasonable.

You could counter that the soul/self is transcendent of logic and reason, but that's a hunk of BS. With that thinking, ANYTHING could be said to exist. For instance, a flying spaghetti monster whose nonphysical tentacles are actually physically manifested as us could be said to be real; and no one could question it because it transcends logic and reason :rolleyes:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: dblaney]
    #5792552 - 06/26/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

A flying spaghetti monster is still physical phenomena


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: Basilides]
    #5792710 - 06/26/06 02:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Not if I say it's a nonphysical flying spaghetti monster! :grin:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: dblaney]
    #5792713 - 06/26/06 02:34 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

In order to experience the Flying Spaghetti Monster you must to learn to open your third nostril.

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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5792730 - 06/26/06 02:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

:levitate:

:lol:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5792761 - 06/26/06 02:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Ommmmmmm....mmmmm...I smell his Sacred Marinara.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
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Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: Veritas]
    #5792979 - 06/26/06 04:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
It is not required that skeptics prove that God/Heaven/the soul do not exist, as they are not the claimants.  The burden of proof lies with the claimants.  As there is no proof, and probably cannot be any proof, it is purely opinion and subjective interpretation of experience.

This is just fine, except that many religious believers take the stance that THEIR subjective opinion should dictate law and education, that it is acceptable for them to pass judgment (and even engage in hate crimes) on harmless lifestyle choices (pre-marital sex, gay marriage, agnosticism, feminism, etc.) and that everyone else is responsible for proving that their mythology is non-factual.  :thumbdown:

If we cannot PROVE either the non-existence nor the existence of a soul, God, Heaven, Hell, Jesus, etc... then it is all just "best guess."  It seems far simpler and more equitable to keep our beliefs in the subjective realm, seek to do no harm to others, and find a path which opens our hearts and minds to our life experiences.




you are still missing the point of this thread.
My questions was:

If you had a van full of wquipment where would you go to look for evidence?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: dblaney]
    #5792988 - 06/26/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
seeing as how I've never heard a satisfactory proof.




And where did you look for that proof? Where did you expect to see it and how did you expect it to look like?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5793132 - 06/26/06 04:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

And where did you look for that proof?

Inside of myself, in books, in the world around me, in people around me, in words, in pictures, etc. etc.

Where did you expect to see it and how did you expect it to look like?

I tried to not have any expectations.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: dblaney]
    #5793155 - 06/26/06 04:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
And where did you look for that proof?

Inside of myself, in books, in the world around me, in people around me, in words, in pictures, etc. etc.

Where did you expect to see it and how did you expect it to look like?

I tried to not have any expectations.




You say you looked in yourself (subjective evidence is weak),
in the world around you (what, you went to the street at visually looked around or what), pictures, words (that doesn't sound like a place you'd find scientific evidence)

all in all, this doesn't sound like scientific method

Also you said you didn't have expectations?
How are you supose to find something if you have no expectations what it is?

If you don't have a general idea of what microwaves are, you can search every aquarium in the world and not find any


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Edited by OldWoodSpecter (06/26/06 04:57 PM)

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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Evidence of soul and afterlife [Re: dblaney]
    #5793184 - 06/26/06 05:05 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
I have no idea what it would sound like, seeing as how I've never heard a satisfactory proof. However I do know that it would be logical and reasonable.

You could counter that the soul/self is transcendent of logic and reason, but that's a hunk of BS. With that thinking, ANYTHING could be said to exist. For instance, a flying spaghetti monster whose nonphysical tentacles are actually physically manifested as us could be said to be real; and no one could question it because it transcends logic and reason :rolleyes:




And the situation would make you roll your eyes whether it was true or not. Nothing is proven because you disbelieve, as nothing is proven because someone believes. God didn't want his presence forced upon us, and that is the reason why it shall remain a personal decision whether or not God exists, your soul exists, etc. etc., and that's just the way it is!


--------------------
:orly:


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