|
capliberty
Stranger


Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
Does the soul exist?
#5789867 - 06/25/06 04:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
There is no proof to me to suggest that a soul exists, the whole idea of a soul comes from a religious text and really there is no scientific evidence to back it up, but yet people readily accept the notion of a soul or spirit,is there a spirit thats the real me, there is no real me or I, we have a conscious awareness, but this doesn't constitute a soul, I'm not a hundred % either or, I just don't know why people accept this as common fact, maybe because people want to believe in an after life, so they accept this notion of a soul as an adequate explanation that we will live forever in some form or another.
Edited by capliberty (06/25/06 05:05 PM)
|
DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: capliberty]
#5789922 - 06/25/06 05:14 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
there is no proof.
but there is evidence
does the soul exist?
yes and no.
It does not physically exist.
but it does exert influence over the physical plane.
there is more to existence than that which physically exists.
MUCH MORE!!!
|
dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: capliberty]
#5789929 - 06/25/06 05:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Nah nothing is permanent, not even you!
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
capliberty
Stranger


Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: dblaney]
#5790001 - 06/25/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Thats the thing, there is no real me, the only me, is my physical senses, my mental conceptions, and once those seize to exist, then how do I identify who I am, is the soul an attempt to explain my unique identity after my physical and mental is no longer there, and if I'm not consious and I forget everything, and I can't distinguish myself in the after world, then I essentially don't exist anymore, but does that really matter, you don't exist, you don't exist, is that what eternal rest means, because your no longer subject to anything,
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: capliberty]
#5790015 - 06/25/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
capliberty said: There is no proof to me to suggest that a soul exists, the whole idea of a soul comes from a religious text and really there is no scientific evidence to back it up, but yet people readily accept the notion of a soul or spirit,is there a spirit thats the real me, there is no real me or I, we have a conscious awareness, but this doesn't constitute a soul, I'm not a hundred % either or, I just don't know why people accept this as common fact, maybe because people want to believe in an after life, so they accept this notion of a soul as an adequate explanation that we will live forever in some form or another.
There are a couple of questions I'd ask you in return:
You say there is no evidence of soul, so What is this soul of which there is no evidence? What is soul supose to be? And what kind of evidence would you expect from it?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
capliberty
Stranger


Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
|
Quote:
What is this soul of which there is no evidence?
I don't know what it is, nothing, so guess there wouldn't be no evidence,
Quote:
What is soul supose to be?
It suppose to be you, with no physical body, and its the core source of life or something.
evidence?
don't know, maybe out of body experience
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: capliberty]
#5790063 - 06/25/06 05:56 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Supose to be you? Yes, but where is it supose to be located? What is it supose to be made of?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: capliberty]
#5790107 - 06/25/06 06:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
evidence?
where does the brain store memories?
if the brain is a closed circuit, where do new ideas come from?
|
capliberty
Stranger


Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
|
I don't know, good questions, if I knew I'd tell you, to me seems unproven, having a soul seems to be optional, since I don't know what it is, in fact I don't really need a soul, shoot life might be better without having one I just wondering what other people think. Its not that I really need to justify it to myself.
|
DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: capliberty]
#5790127 - 06/25/06 06:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
you can't lose your soul, you can only lose touch with it. Its always there, no matter how far you run away from it, you always end up right back where you started from, eventually.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: capliberty]
#5790140 - 06/25/06 06:24 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
No soul IMO.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
capliberty
Stranger


Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5790141 - 06/25/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Who saying I'm running away from it, maybe I'm running towards it, the truth that is, to me a soul might give a person the notion he's more than he is, his ego inflates because he actually thinks he is something,
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: capliberty]
#5790150 - 06/25/06 06:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
capliberty said: I don't know, good questions, if I knew I'd tell you, to me seems unproven, having a soul seems to be optional, since I don't know what it is, in fact I don't really need a soul, shoot life might be better without having one I just wondering what other people think. Its not that I really need to justify it to myself.
My point is just that, concluding that there is no soul is a bold statement considering you are anybody else doesn't have the slightest idea about its technical side (where is it and what is it made of). You can't find or even see evidence of something if you don't know what you are looking for or where to look.
Is there evidence of mooziefleckers? You don't know, because you have no idea what they could be, and where are they supose to be. Should you look for them in your cup of coffee? Or maybe you should check out radars in the airport control tower to see if there are any. Or should you get tested for them in the hospital? Or perhapse you should check if they are soled in the local store?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: Icelander]
#5790165 - 06/25/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said: No soul IMO.
don't slide down the drain just yet, Icelander!
We still need you for mass executions of useless people!
|
capliberty
Stranger


Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5790214 - 06/25/06 06:58 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
My point is just that, concluding that there is no soul is a bold statement considering you are anybody else doesn't have the slightest idea about its technical side (where is it and what is it made of).
I haven't concluded anything yet, why is it so bold about showing some skepticism, if I truly believe in something I'll seek to understand what it is, that is if its anything at all, to seek truth I must be impartial to both sides, instead of just accepting it as common knowledge, or being pro about it, thats being biased. Because then I'm just trying to seek justification for what I want to believe. Which religion is really guilty for
|
dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
|
Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: My point is just that, concluding that there is no soul is a bold statement considering you are anybody else doesn't have the slightest idea about its technical side (where is it and what is it made of). You can't find or even see evidence of something if you don't know what you are looking for or where to look.
Is there evidence of mooziefleckers? You don't know, because you have no idea what they could be, and where are they supose to be. Should you look for them in your cup of coffee? Or maybe you should check out radars in the airport control tower to see if there are any. Or should you get tested for them in the hospital? Or perhapse you should check if they are soled in the local store?
I think it's an even bolder statement to say that there IS a soul or self or atman or whatever. If you want to assert the existence of something, then the burden of proof is on you who does the asserting (not necessarily referring to you OWS, but to anyone who makes that assertion). For millenia people have attempted to prove the existence of soul/self but there has yet to be a proof that is more than speculation or guessing.
I see no reason for accepting the existence of a permanent self/soul. It's an extreme as far as ideas go.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5792022 - 06/26/06 10:23 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DoctorJ said:
Quote:
Icelander said: No soul IMO.
don't slide down the drain just yet, Icelander!
We still need you for mass executions of useless people!
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: dblaney]
#5792028 - 06/26/06 10:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Don't worry about it, just a random drive-by flaming.
|
dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: Veritas]
#5792064 - 06/26/06 10:35 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|

Pretty flower in your sig, btw. Macro photos of a flower actually seen through a raindrop are really cool looking too.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: dblaney]
#5792543 - 06/26/06 01:30 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
dblaney said:
Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: My point is just that, concluding that there is no soul is a bold statement considering you are anybody else doesn't have the slightest idea about its technical side (where is it and what is it made of). You can't find or even see evidence of something if you don't know what you are looking for or where to look.
Is there evidence of mooziefleckers? You don't know, because you have no idea what they could be, and where are they supose to be. Should you look for them in your cup of coffee? Or maybe you should check out radars in the airport control tower to see if there are any. Or should you get tested for them in the hospital? Or perhapse you should check if they are soled in the local store?
I think it's an even bolder statement to say that there IS a soul or self or atman or whatever. If you want to assert the existence of something, then the burden of proof is on you who does the asserting (not necessarily referring to you OWS, but to anyone who makes that assertion). For millenia people have attempted to prove the existence of soul/self but there has yet to be a proof that is more than speculation or guessing.
I see no reason for accepting the existence of a permanent self/soul. It's an extreme as far as ideas go.
Soul is synonymous with Consciousness. It seems the word has been beaten down into a fantastical image of some kind of celestial body as opposed to a more meaningful droplets of consciousness becoming earthen from the vast ocean of consciousness. Asking one to "prove" the existence of soui/spirit is one-footed, and one might as well be asking for a metaphysical formula of reality, or the most fierce of all philosophical debates, the existence of God. Whether God (the Fullness of Consciousness) or Spirit (individuated consciousness), all is made up of the same phenomena, the same metaphysical phenomena that "rationalists" expect to be bottled into a test tube for extensive study. Never going to happen.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
|
TheGus
The Walrus

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 387
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: Basilides]
#5792596 - 06/26/06 01:49 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
look up astral projection and you will know why i believe a soul exists
-------------------- "It is easier to teach a computer to play chess than to build a mudpie."Sherry Turkle Life on the Screen: Identity in the Age of the Internet "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"-Einstein
I pity the fool who break traffic laws with $870,000 of drugs in the car. -mo0nlite_sonata Psythos
|
dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: Basilides]
#5792723 - 06/26/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
I said: "I see no reason for accepting the existence of a permanent self/soul."
You said: "Soul is synonymous with Consciousness."
Same thing still applies. The consciousnesses that collectively compose what is conventionally referred to as "me" (eye consciousness, ear consciousness, nose consciousness, mouth consciousness, body consciousness, and mind consciousness) have not always existed, and will indeed cease to exist. They exist in dependence upon the necessary causes and conditions and therefore they are impermanent and do not inherently exist.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: dblaney]
#5793394 - 06/26/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
I wasn't really talking of consciousness in a medical sense, rather preceding being. The essence of divinity that is within everyone and is essentially who they are. I don't believe I have a spirit, I know that ultimately I am spirit, a preceding essence, that merely happens to be individuated through a one-way world view. The "soul" of each man is like a mysopiate that absorbs individual experiences in life, enjoining it into Oneness again, bringing forth a single experience of humanity before the Breast of God. My life, like yours, will melt into a single living Life at death. Your experiences will become mine, and mine will become yours. The looking eye of billions of souls become a single eye that adores the Beloved.
I agree with you, the self is not real, but our experiences are. The self dies, but the experiences of the individual self do not. These experiences constitute the Divine Spark of a person. Ultimately it's the re-establishment of these life experiences into the Identity of God that make up the "eternal life" that is talked about in the Gospels.
Honestly, I don't expect a non-stop journey into the Fullness of the Divine. I expect a long drawn out physical life with the sensation that with each passing year I am being drawn away from God as opposed to nearer. Death will cease me and paralyze me, and my brain conjugated consciousness will fade to black forever as who I am becomes dust. This is where the mythology of the Risen Christ comes in play. The blackness will be shattered by the Unmitigated Clear Light of Reality. "I" will realize that "I" am dead, however the only thing that is living are my experiences. I would have no end or beginning, nor even the capacity to reflect. My spirit is unto a drop of water in the ocean. Once that drop enters the ocean, it becomes lost in pure simplicity, in complete bliss. This is the Glory, and this is the Goal of the Soul.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
|
Schwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: Basilides]
#5793677 - 06/26/06 07:51 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Twinkle, twinkle, little star, How I wonder what you are. Up above the world so high, Like a diamond in the sky. Twinkle, twinkle, little star, How I wonder what you are!
When the blazing sun is gone, When he nothing shines upon, Then you show your little light, Twinkle, twinkle, all the night. Twinkle, twinkle, little star, How I wonder what you are!
Then the traveler in the dark Thanks you for your tiny spark; He could not see which way to go, If you did not twinkle so. Twinkle, twinkle, little star, How I wonder what you are!
|
slaphappy
Its just me


Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 1,188
Loc: Norway, Eidsvoll, Råholt...
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: Schwammel]
#5794566 - 06/27/06 12:23 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
The soul.
The psychedelic experience.
I experienced the same moment several times(terrifying, am I stuck?), and none of my friends did.
Which tells me, I am not my memory. I am not a closed cirquit. I am not merely the sense of the physical.
I am something that reads my memory, and for some reason it lapsed/erred/freaked-the-fuck-out.
I am that which watches.
Be it consciousness, or soul - be it mine, or be it all.
Or be it my dead paranoid eternal delusions, fleeing from themselves.
Some/somebody/someone/something is watching a movie.
-------------------- The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

|
Schwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: slaphappy]
#5794744 - 06/27/06 01:57 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
nothing exists the little star that burned so bright(millions of years ago) the memory that was created overnight(delusional) here yesterday gone today,,, or is that suppose to be here today gone tomorrow!!! or was it here yesterday gone tomorrow??? stop the world "i want to get off"
...
or is it here tomorrow gone today(or yesterday)???
Edited by Schwammel (06/27/06 04:09 PM)
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: Schwammel]
#5795032 - 06/27/06 07:13 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
You should change your name to Mr. Gubjet. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
Panoramix
Getafix


Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 634
Loc: Everywhere else
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
|
|
"if the brain is a closed circuit, where do new ideas come from?"
Your senses, I think most would argue, are the input mechanism for your brain which may otherwise be considered a closed circuit.
"and this is the Goal of the Soul." -- Basilides, you're a poet. Do you know it?
"I am that which watches." -- Slaphappy So when the movie stops, the Observer disappears, or just wanders off to the next show? In terms of my opinion, I'm inclinded to agree with Basilides, the Soul/spirit/whatever you want to call the non-physical aspect of existance is just a fragment of a greater whole as it exists in people or other living organisms. Individuality is lost upon death and the soul's re-emergance with the fullness of non-physical being, but it doesn't much matter to those experiencing that loss of self. Hurray for acid for preparing folks for permanent ego-death!
-------------------- Don't worry, I'm wrong.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: Panoramix]
#5796104 - 06/27/06 03:17 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
the Soul/spirit/whatever you want to call the non-physical aspect of existance is just a fragment of a greater whole as it exists in people or other living organisms. Individuality is lost upon death and the soul's re-emergance with the fullness of non-physical being, but it doesn't much matter to those experiencing that loss of self. Hurray for acid for preparing folks for permanent ego-death!
Nothing personal. Hooray for LSD
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Schwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: Icelander]
#5796210 - 06/27/06 03:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
or is it here tomorrow gone today(or yesterday)???
these are plausible, choose your weapon...
is it here tomorrow gone today?? that kinda sounds like the fuzzy warm feeling we all get from jesus.
or is it/
... here tomorrow gone yesterday?
i'l leave taht for yo
Ps...the promise of 'salvation' but you have to do it yourself. why talk of one god, one 1ness, when the world dances?
in your case it's 'dances w/ coyotes'
Edited by Schwammel (06/27/06 04:24 PM)
|
slaphappy
Its just me


Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 1,188
Loc: Norway, Eidsvoll, Råholt...
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: Schwammel]
#5798474 - 06/28/06 05:29 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Lets dance
-------------------- The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

|
capliberty
Stranger


Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
Re: Does the soul exist? [Re: slaphappy]
#5798580 - 06/28/06 07:43 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
I've realized that this question doesn't need answering, but any answer is the answer to this question, your concept is yours, Mine is mine,
|
|