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OfflineEvilGir
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Genetic Shroom enginerring
    #578536 - 03/14/02 09:23 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

By now shouldnt it be possible to take the dna out of a shroom that makes up psilocybe and re-sequence it in to another faste/easier growing none- psilocybe shroom or even better a fast growing plant. This would surly enable a new type of species of psychedelic plants/fungi to be created, it would be surly better than growing ears on mice.


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Offlinelycopodium
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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: EvilGir]
    #578546 - 03/14/02 09:42 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

this is theoretically possible, and supposedly there is some thesis paper floating around about it although i haven't been able to read it myself to verify it's existence, let alone accuracy, but would require a tremendous amount of labor and someone with a high level of knowledge and access to a broad range of molecular bio/biochemistry equipment, for the most part, people qualified to do this type of research don't have the desire to, the time to, or wouldn't want to risk their own research/grant money/job to do illegal research.
that being said, here's what needs to be done:
the complete biosynthetic pathway for the indogenous production of psilocybin and psilocin is not yet known. this needs to be mapped and the enzymes responsible for the conversions must be cloned into expression vectors.
possibly, once all of the enzymes are known and cloned into vectors with a wide range of different antibiotic resistances, these clones could be transformed into the target cell and the expression of the enzymes could be verified via western blot, and you could do some type of analysis for the alkaloid contents and see whether they were produced through this transient expression of the biosynthetic pathway.
eventually, you would want to create a stable expression of these enzymes in a system that would be geared toward the production of alkaloids, this could mean heavily modified bacteria, transgenic tobacco, expression target to fruits like bananas (a while back there was a false rumor that a research scientist had made a transgenic orange tree that produced thc in its fruit) that is under strict control.
enough to get you started thinking?


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Offlinelycopodium
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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: lycopodium]
    #578549 - 03/14/02 09:45 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

i dub this research entheogenetics, you can do a search for this word but you won't find much. get rid of the double post, ask a mod to delete it.


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Offlinelycopodium
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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: lycopodium]
    #578630 - 03/14/02 11:54 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

here's the link to the paper, i can't download/decompress it.
if anyone can please do so and either post it in this forum or email it to me as an attachment if it's too large

http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/gregory/1042/index.html



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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: lycopodium]
    #578637 - 03/14/02 12:03 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, I'd really like to see that paper; If s/he were able to get a psilo-gene into a bacterium....Very interesting for those interested in producing LOTS of alk's....overnight growth + extraction could be the equivalent of several flushes!


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: lycopodium]
    #578644 - 03/14/02 12:12 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

If you could clone the genes responsible for psilocybin production, why would you even want to put them back into the mushroom genome? You could just insert them into bacteria and just have them produce psilocybin on a petri dish. After a few days you can just extract all the alkaloids from the bacteria colonies, and put them in a gelcap or something.

Although I'd much prefer the natural mushroom variety. The other way seems to be tampering with nature a little too much.


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #578671 - 03/14/02 12:45 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

This is of no practical interest to me, but even a step furthur. . .use a bacterial colony with the insert to inoculate several liters of appropriate growth broth. In a day or two at 37 degrees it would be completely turbid, depending on the promotor/transcriptional efficiency, you could have something very worthwhile to extract w/acid-alcohol.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: lycopodium]
    #579158 - 03/14/02 11:27 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

You can download the self extracting file here:

http://www.fungifun.org/tampanensis_diploma.exe

It?s 2.45 Mb.


Edited by Anno (03/15/02 08:54 AM)


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Offlinelycopodium
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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: lycopodium]
    #579670 - 03/15/02 02:45 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

posted on poppies.org, pertaining to topic at hand



Reprinted from the Calgary Herald by Robin Summerfield

Peter Facchini is neither a drug lord nor an addict -- but a quick glance at his resume might suggest otherwise.

As the keeper of a small garden of opium poppies in an unmarked basement room at the University of Calgary, the 38-year-old Facchini has a small stash that might make a junkie's eyes glaze over.

Under 16-hour-a-day bright lights, 80 per cent humidity and 26 C temperatures of a growth chamber -- it looks like a big, green refrigerator but produces the opposite effect -- Facchini tends to his crop of the morphine-producing plants.

But as a plant cell biologist, biochemist, geneticist, molecular biologist and phytochemist, the researcher is intently focused on his plants and the potential they have in the legal world. His groundbreaking work has won international notice and national financial support.

"I'd like to see the Prairies covered by opium poppies," said a slightly hesitant Facchini. "Well, maybe not covered, but this could be a new crop alternative."

Facchini wants to isolate the opium poppy's enzyme-encoded genes, understand the 18 or so metabolic stages from beginning to codeine and then on to morphine, and then alter that process. In the end, he may wind up giving opium poppies a better reputation.

"It is very valuable as a legitimate medicinal plant, but it is also used for the illegal production of heroin, so by blocking the synthesis of the molecule at certain stages, it could be developed into a new weapon in the war on drugs," said Facchini.

"Now you would have a variety that is not only more valuable commercially -- because you're avoiding a chemical step -- but you also have a variety that avoids the possibility of converting morphine into heroin.

"In the form of codeine, it would be much more difficult to produce heroin."

Facchini's research could allow scientists to customize the pathway, possibly producing plants with more morphine. Or by stopping the process at codeine, the opium poppy could even become a Wild Rose Country crop, he suggested.

The metabolic engineering Facchini proposes may help de-stigmatize opium poppies as a crop for drug lords. Instead, it could deliver the poppies into the legal hands of Alberta farmers, provided the right, genetically altered variety are used, our laws have been amended and the public's anti-opium plant stance has changed.

Extensive competition for commodity crops such as wheat around the world have put Alberta farmers behind the eight-ball. Countries such as Argentina and China can produce crops far cheaper than farmers in Canada, he said.

With two per cent of all prescriptions filled in North America containing either morphine or codeine, a thriving market is there for the taking.

And as the largest per capita consumers of codeine in the world, Facchini said Canadians are a homegrown customer base for our farmers.

Canada gets most of its supplies of morphine and codeine from Australia and France, where opium poppies are grown legally.

Facchini's research has garnered international attention. He recently returned from France, where he is working with other researchers.

In November, the federal government awarded him a Canada Research Chair worth $1 million over the next 10 years. With that money, Facchini's salary will be covered and other money can be used to upgrade his large lab on the third floor of the biological sciences building at the university.

Six research students work with Facchini, who hopes to add about two more senior researchers in the next year.

The soft-spoken academic is quick to note he has a permit to grow the plants from the federal government.

He began studying the plant 10 years ago during his post-doctoral research at the University of Montreal. Facchini's supervisor handed him a jar full of the opium poppy seeds and told him to clone one of its genes, which had never been done.

He accomplished the task, becoming the first person to clone the gene involved with morphine biosynthesis, and there was no turning back.

Today, there is only one other lab in the world trying to understand the alkaloid synthesis of the opium plant.

"It's good to be known in a research area that's controversial," said Facchini. "Well, not exactly controversial, but it grabs people's attention."


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Offlinelycopodium
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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: lycopodium]
    #579673 - 03/15/02 02:48 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

still can't extract the file, even with that link anno
stoopid mac.
have you read the paper? anyway you could post it or send it to me?


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: EvilGir]
    #580054 - 03/15/02 10:39 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

By now shouldnt it be possible to take the dna out of a shroom that makes up psilocybe and re-sequence it in to another faste/easier growing none- psilocybe shroom




What's an easier to grow shroom than psilocybe cubensis? What fruits on such a wide variety of substrates, can be cased or caked, is so resilient against contams and grows so fast? I think mother nature did the entheogenetics for us and gave us cubensis!


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PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: mycofile]
    #582009 - 03/18/02 07:18 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

The generla idea was that genetics could be used to create new strains of fungi / plants or modify existing strains to find a more simple way to obtain psilocybe. As there has not been any revenlutionary step forward since the PF method.

I think there is alway room for improvments through methods or genetics and although the PF growing methods are good I tend to find them very time consuming.
Even though learing how to do this would probable take well over 10 years +.

Also If some one was to understand how mushrooms produce psilocybe then over time it would be possible to geneticly alter fungi / plants to produce new or other substances though there own naturaly producing percursors.
An example of this would be altering the dna of morning glory plant to produce lsa into lsd or you could simple create a super shroom containing a stupid amount of psilocybe


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Offlinelycopodium
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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: EvilGir]
    #582187 - 03/18/02 12:02 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

has anyone been able to extrqct/read that paper yet? if so please post details/text or email me a copy, veyr interested but can't get my mac to accept it


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Invisibleexplosiveoxygen
Prophet of TGMM

Registered: 07/10/09
Posts: 1,253
Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: EvilGir]
    #10658541 - 07/11/09 04:31 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

If I were knowledgeable and equipped enough to do what this thread entails, I would be finding ways of producing food rather than something to free your mind.

Think about it guys.


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OfflineLennyk
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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: explosiveoxygen]
    #10663481 - 07/12/09 04:29 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

explosiveoxygen said:
If I were knowledgeable and equipped enough to do what this thread entails, I would be finding ways of producing food rather than something to free your mind.

Think about it guys.





Welcome to the shroomery young thread necromancer :awesome:


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Offlinebillycorgan55
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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: EvilGir]
    #10715238 - 07/21/09 03:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

i have been wondering exactly this for years...I am majoring on Genetics and i would like to become a Genetic Engineer. And perhaps, with time, this would become more fact than fiction.


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Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: billycorgan55]
    #10785852 - 08/02/09 03:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Hypothetically an amateur could tinker with bacteria to be introduced to the substrate that could survive pasteurization. Bacteria can exchange dna much easier than fungi.

Kinda pointless I guess tho, if one wanted better shrooms,one would work with a better species. Odds of ever accomplishing anything thru amateur experimentation seem pretty close to nil. Maybe someday someone will engineer a pan thats as durable as a cube.


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The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


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OfflinePprPlns
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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: EvilGir]
    #10845756 - 08/12/09 03:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

This is a fun topic. Here's some links about messing with dna of bacteria  and fungus. Also, I have no knowledge of any bacteria that can create alkaloids. Usually (im no expert though) DNA has different parts, you can rearrange pieces of a portion of DNA but you can't create a piece (with the current technology). So unless bacteria have a dormant ability to produce an alkaloid hidden in their genome, no bacteria could be reprogrammed to produce psilocin. But like I said, I don't know anything about bacteria.
http://apbio.wdfiles.com/local--files/forum:thread/LabReport.pdf
http://www.fgsc.net/fgn44/weiland.html
http://www.biotech.iastate.edu/lab_protocols/DNA_Extraction_Bacteria.html


Edited by PprPlns (08/12/09 03:11 PM)


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Offlinekydelic
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Re: Genetic Shroom enginerring [Re: PprPlns]
    #10859237 - 08/14/09 03:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Another possible use would be to enable legal plants to produce the psilocybin and psilocin for a perfectly unnoticeable grow.


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OfflineFNFAL
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Re: Genetic Shroom engineering [Re: kydelic]
    #10875439 - 08/17/09 01:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I am currently studying/working in the field of plant biotechnology. It is entirely possible to induce the uptake of foreign DNA into cells (protoplasm's) of plant tissue. Right now we have tomatoes that have the DNA of deep sea cod spliced into them which infers resistance to cold into the tomatoes. There is golden rice which has foreign DNA which contains 5x the amount of vitamin E as normal rice. The partial DNA from pathogenic bacteria has been placed in the genome of bananas, therefore those that eat them in third world countries can get their immunizations from merely eating a banana. Corn,potatoes, and other vegetables, (bt)has had natural insecticides derived from bacteria placed in its genome, thus conferring resistance to insects such as the corn borer. The list goes on and on, the work being done with genetically modified organisms truly is amazing.

In my experience when a particular chemical such as insulin is needed usually the DNA which codes for this is placed in bacteria. The bacteria can then reproduce and produce the needed compound in rates which far exceed that of plants or fungi. Huge tanks with nutrient broth (analogous to LC for fungi) is used, the chemicals are extracted in large amounts and isolated. Insulin is produced this way as are many other chemicals. Researchers have placed the genes necessary for production of silk from spiders in an attempt to extract this chemical as it is like 10x as strong as steel and like a quarter of the weight. If one were motivated to produce psilocybin I would think using a bacterium as the vector to do so would be the most efficient.

To get the DNA from one organism to another is not that difficult. I have done this with plant protoplasm tissue using basic enzymes to break down the cell walls of the plant cells then using other basic chemicals to induce re-uptake of foreign DNA. There are many ways of doing this, one can even use biolistics where the DNA is carried on small particles of gold. This is literally shot into the donor cells.

Good luck


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