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Offlinechubbmeister
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tiny fruits!! with pics
    #5785217 - 06/23/06 09:49 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

hello everyone, i just wanted to ask everyones opinions on why i would be getting such small fruits.they started pinning a few days ago and they haven't grown more than 1 inches tall and very skinny?!?!?!the strain is pesa and my chamber is 2 bubble wands with river stones.I've used this setup before with great results.the cakes are brf.any help or suggestions would be appreciated thanks
                  happy shroomin :mushroom2:


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Offlinechubbmeister
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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: chubbmeister]
    #5785236 - 06/23/06 10:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

[url=http://www.shroomery.org/forums/files/06-25/112148264-shroomie3.jpg][image]http://www.shroomery.org/forums/fil
sorry let's try this again....


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: chubbmeister]
    #5785238 - 06/23/06 10:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

small, nutrient shallow substrate creates small fruit. Larger, deeper, dense nutrient filled substrate creates large thick fruit.


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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5785435 - 06/23/06 11:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not sure i agree with you equil... i've seen plenty of cakes produce very large specimens.  i think it has more to do with the strain than anything else.  PESA are know to be a prolific fruiter not unlike tex or  ben hua thanon.  but they are usually smaller with more dense fruits.  that cake looks great to me.  as you can see, the fruits are growing out of where the myc. meets the verm. barrier on the bottom... i'm guessing you would have a better pinset if you cased the top of that bad boy as well. :smile:  then the top half of the cake would probably be producing pins also.  cakes are nute rich.  thats why they need to be sterilized and not pasteurized like low nutes subs like manure and straw.  if you do a cake right... it will out perform ANY sub. in a side-by-side comparision or at least as good.  bulk subs will get you bigger mushrooms but they the larger the specimen... the weaker the potency.. imo of course.  i bet those mushies you have growing on that cake have about an 8% water ration compared to the 10+% most others have. :smile:

fahtster


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OfflineMLBjammer
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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: fahtster]
    #5786097 - 06/24/06 08:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, that cake looks okay. But like Faht (a cake guru indeeed) said, double-end case and roll that thing in vermic.(well, he didn't mention rolling). The difference can be significant. Some of the strongest shrooms I have ever grown were invitro, actually, very dense and potent. GL.


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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: MLBjammer]
    #5786151 - 06/24/06 09:21 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

when i said that it looks great, i am referring to how healthy it looks... you didn't leave it very many options for fruiting...  the one that you did leave it, the bottom verm. barrier, looks to be a bit poor at that.  it's overlaid from the myc. colonizing it for three weeks (a total guess at your colonization time).  a casing provides a non nute structure that promotes rhizzo growth which will lead to knot formation.  it also provides a micro environment of small air pockets that trap moisture and humidity.  basically it's a 'womb' for myc. to produce it's babies in.  you probably would have had a better pinset on the bottom if you had scraped off that verm. barrier and set the cake on fluffed moist to wet verm.  then of course the casing layer on top.  another factor that most people forget about is gravity..  most of the water in that cake has been pulled to the bottom of the cake via gravity.  thats another reason most pinning in on the bottom.  I add water to the top DEC'ing slowly the first few days before pinning to keep the top half of the cake 'loaded' with water.  gravity is another reason that one should put something in between cakes if they double stack em.  if you don't, the water from the top cake is going to water log the bottom cake and leave the top one too dry for max. fruiting.  a simple piece of foil combats this.  rolling cakes in verm. is a nice novelty that DOES promote pinning on the sides of the cakes, BUT if you have the proper DEC'ing, that cake will just more than likely produce those mushies at the edges where the verm. is if the roll wasn't there.  but the roll does make for easy absorbtion of the excess water after a dunk. :wink:

fahtster


Edited by fahtster (06/24/06 09:23 AM)


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: fahtster]
    #5786589 - 06/24/06 01:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fahtster said:
I'm not sure i agree with you equil... i've seen plenty of cakes produce very large specimens.  i think it has more to do with the strain than anything else.  PESA are know to be a prolific fruiter not unlike tex or  ben hua thanon.  but they are usually smaller with more dense fruits.  that cake looks great to me.  as you can see, the fruits are growing out of where the myc. meets the verm. barrier on the bottom... i'm guessing you would have a better pinset if you cased the top of that bad boy as well. :smile:  then the top half of the cake would probably be producing pins also.  cakes are nute rich.  thats why they need to be sterilized and not pasteurized like low nutes subs like manure and straw.  if you do a cake right... it will out perform ANY sub. in a side-by-side comparision or at least as good.  bulk subs will get you bigger mushrooms but they the larger the specimen... the weaker the potency.. imo of course.  i bet those mushies you have growing on that cake have about an 8% water ration compared to the 10+% most others have. :smile:

fahtster




There is no way a PF cake will outperform my grow bags especially for potency!  :smirk:


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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5786649 - 06/24/06 01:50 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

well.. obviously a pf cake is smaller than a growbag.  but if you took the same amount of sub in a cake and put that same amount in a growbag, you're not going to be able to tell the two apart.  all a cake is a soda can sized cut out of a 3 in. deep casing...  only now you can fruit from all sides instead of just the top... if you took all the mushies growing off a cake and put them on the top like a regular casing would be... it would be a full canopy.  I probably should have said... "would at least match or POSSIBLY outperform." instead of the other way around.  by and by in a work/time/colonization speed comparision... cakes hold their own.  I'm not sure where you get the potency comparision.  unless you have some kind of solid data that backs that up i'm still not sold on any kind of potency issues with cakes.  but to each their own.  i just think cakes don't get the proper credit for the workhorse they can be if done properly.  :smile:

fahtster


Edited by fahtster (06/24/06 02:03 PM)


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Offlinecoda
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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5786766 - 06/24/06 02:40 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

FYI nutrient content has nothing to do with potency, if it did we'd all be using this super substrate.

most likely it's a shitty substrain.


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To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

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i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug*

-A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: coda]
    #5786823 - 06/24/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

double blind study

Using B+ LC

Group A received dried mushrooms grown from PF cakes

Group B received dried mushrooms grown from bags using wronguys recipe

48 Cups of horse manure (shredded)
24 Cups of vermiculite
16 1/2 Cups of dry WBS (do not soak or simmer)
4 Tablespoons of dry Kelp Meal
6 Tablespoons of Canola or Vegetable oil
21 Cups of water

Group C received both A and B specimen



Results: Group A stated the mushrooms were OK. No complaints that they were too weak. People considered them "average"

Group B was astounded at the potency. Several people "Man those were REALLY GOOD!"

Group C wanted to know why there was such a huge difference in potency between specimen A and specimen B and what made specimen B so potent.


All mushrooms were grown using the same master LC.


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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5786886 - 06/24/06 04:04 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

dude, that data is rock solid. nice study, i would like to get on your list of "guinea pigs" though. thanks.


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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: maxpower210]
    #5786977 - 06/24/06 04:48 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i'm sorry, but that data is far from rock solid... did all the participants weigh the same? did they eat all the same foods before the test? did they all have the same metabolism? these are key elements to any 'rock solid' test. equil says that it was from the same master lc... was that a multispore lc or an isolate? like coda said... nutes have nothing to do with how the DNA of the mushroom produces the 'magic'. it's definately a good mix of nutes to keep the enzyme mix of the mushroom healthy but thats about it.

fahtster


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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: fahtster]
    #5787017 - 06/24/06 05:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i think better test would be with one individual... one isolate grown on each sub.  no food 24 hours before each testing... same amount of mushies (even go as far as to the .o1 of a gram).  powdered in a coffee grinder given blindly... those results i think would be more substantial and even then, it wouldn't sway myself either way.. would be interesting tho.  but, even in an isolate... the magic content can vary slightly from fruit to fruit.  I just don't think it can be said either way and shouldn't be.  :smile:


Edited by fahtster (06/24/06 05:12 PM)


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: fahtster]
    #5787059 - 06/24/06 05:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fahtster said:
i'm sorry, but that data is far from rock solid... did all the participants weigh the same?  did they eat all the same foods before the test?  did they all have the same metabolism?  these are key elements to any 'rock solid' test.  equil says that it was from the same master lc... was that a multispore lc or an isolate?  like coda said... nutes have nothing to do with how the DNA of the mushroom produces the 'magic'.  it's definately a good mix of nutes to keep the enzyme mix of the mushroom healthy but thats about it. 

fahtster




All of them were human or at least appear to be.  :grin:

It was a multi-spore LC

"nutes have nothing to do with how the DNA of the mushroom produces the 'magic'. "

I completely disagree with that statement. Thats like saying proper nutrition has nothing to do with the testosterone levels of an adult male. FALSE. Genetics play a key role, but they are only part of the equation. You cant make a cannabis plant with shitty genetics have super high potency by providing excellent nutrition to it, but you can make a cannabis plant with excellent genetics have terrible potency by neglecting its nutritional requirements.  :mushroom2:


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Offlinemaxpower210
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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5787125 - 06/24/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

wow, i was joking, fah. nice points tho.


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: maxpower210]
    #5787190 - 06/24/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

please don't get me wrong... i'm not trying to piss anyone off.  disagreements let truth be known and i'm all about the knowing the truth. 

the fact that it was a multispore LC voids all results of that test since the genetics vary from substrain to substrain.  if that test was performed with an isolate and done like twenty times and then the average was on the side of equil's point then that may be a substantial result. 

equil did make a good point about genetics... but we are talking about brf and that recipe.. brf brings more than enough nutes to the table.  pot and mushrooms are apples and oranges. :smile:

fahtster


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: tiny fruits!! with pics [Re: fahtster]
    #5787393 - 06/24/06 07:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yes I know. So are people to pot. The point is, all organic life forms need proper nutrition to thrive. Sure you can live off of a near entire rice diet, but you wont be healthy. You wont be full of energy and have healthy hormone balance... you wont be thriving.


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